Columbia v UPenn v. Washu v. Northwestern

College Search & Selection
1

<p>Hello All:</p>

<p>My daughter is trying to decide between Columbia, Univ. of Penn, Washington University in St. Louis, and Northwestern. Her major is neuroscience and/or biological sciences (not pre-med.) She has a strong interest in research and would like to pursue research opportunities during her undergraduate years.</p>

<p>She is looking for a school that is strong in academics and has a nice social atmosphere. She wants to attend a school with smart happy students who enjoy socializing with each other. She wants an atmosphere where students work together and support/build each other up, instead of tear each other down and sabatoge one another. </p>

<p>She wants a school with supportive and informed advisors, faculty that actually hold office hours, and a student services center that can assist students if they are stuggling.</p>

<p>The aforementioned schools are all wonderful. However, because she is an out-of-state student (from CA), she would like input from others who have more knowledge of each school. She is planning a visit to all the aforementioned schools this month. </p>

<p>Thank you for your feedback.</p>

2

<p>Congratulations on all the wonderful choices. My daughter is a junior in the Arts and Sciences school at Penn, and she is having the type of experience you describe. Penn is definitely a “work hard, play hard school.” It deserves its reputation as the “social ivy.” She has found that professors, TAs and advisors are all available and helpful, but you do have to seek them out. She has found that the students in the College of Arts and Sciences are supportive of each other. Wharton has a more competitive atmosphere. She is having a wonderful academic and social experience at Penn.</p>

3

<p>Although the other 3 schools are also strong choices, you really can’t beat Penn for undergraduate research opportunities in neuroscience and biological sciences. It is the only one of the 4 schools that has its medical school and hospital, and research-oriented veterinary (including lots of research with applications in human medicine), dental, and nursing schools, all on the same compact campus with Penn’s undergraduate schools. Additionally, Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia–one of the world’s leading pediatric hospitals with an incredible research complex of its own–is immediately adjacent to Penn’s campus. This really provides an unparalleled medical and biological research complex within a few short steps of where undergrads live and study. And as a result, there are numerous learning and research opportunities open to undergrads that are simply not as accessible to undergrads at other schools. For example, take a look at the faculty of Penn’s undergraduate Biological Basis of Behavior program (the neuroscience program for undergrads):</p>

<p>[BBB</a> Faculty and Staff | Biological Basis of Behavior Program](<a href=“http://www.sas.upenn.edu/bbb/about/people]BBB”>http://www.sas.upenn.edu/bbb/about/people)</p>

<p>Also, Penn has its Center for Undergraduate Research (CURF), which is devoted to coordinating research opportunities specifically for undergrads. Here are the current listings of undergraduate research positions in Biomedical Science:</p>

<p>[Center</a> for Undergraduate Research and Fellowships](<a href=“Penn CURF”>Penn CURF)</p>

<p>And in terms of the social requirements, as momjr points out, Penn is well-known for it’s work-hard/play-hard ethos, and its proud status as “the social ivy.” :)</p>

4

<p>My son was admitted to these schools (as well as others) and is going to Columbia. He thinks there is no comparison with the NYC setting and the amazing faculty and opportunities at Columbia. Only UPenn of your list is even arguably comparable in my view, and you can’t compare Philly with NYC and the more preprofessional atmosphere of UPenn with the more intellectual atmostphere of Columbia, in my view.</p>

5

<p>Is your daughter planning to do medicine or a Ph.D.?</p>

6

<p>As of now, she is going for a Ph.D.</p>

7

<p>

I’m never quite sure what statements like this mean. The fact is that Penn has many more undergrads in its liberal arts school than Columbia has in its comparable school. Of course, Penn has undergraduate business and nursing schools–which happen to be among the best in the world–which Columbia doesn’t, but there is still a larger liberal arts presence at Penn in absolute numbers than at Columbia.</p>

<p>And Penn is second only to Johns Hopkins in the amount of NIH research funding it receives every year and, unlike Hopkins, Columbia, or any other school, virtually all of that research is done on the same compact campus where undergraduates live and study.</p>

8

<p>PENN! has a great engineering as well as med program. Can’t go wrong either way. Congrats to her on being accepted to these great schools!</p>

9

<p>Could someone talk about Northwestern and WashU?</p>

10

<p>I was recently accepted at U Chicago, U Penn, Brown, Northwestern, and Dartmouth. </p>

<p>When narrowing my list of schools I found it at first challenging but soon came to a realization that made the process much less troubling. Academically, everything I have read, and every accomplished academic I polled, suggested that U Chicago, U Penn, Brown, Northwestern and Dartmouth (I would consider Columbia and Wash U as comparable) are of sufficient caliber that the differences are so minute as to be inconsequential. </p>

<p>So we then progress to other qualities. Here the field was easily narrowed to a single choice. If looking for elite academics, along with the full college experience: cultural sophistication of world class city, aesthetic locale, big time athletics, vibrant greek if desired, and a laid back intellectual, perhaps even a bit geeky, student body (this was my impression - U Penn and U Chicago students seemed stressed) then NU will stick out amongst the choices (well it did for me). My mentor has reminded me frequently, that college is more than books, and social development can be just as important to your career as anything you will pick up in the classroom. </p>

<p>I also made a college visit to Columbia. I recognize it has world class academics (as do all of these schools), but there was no campus, and the kids I met were living all over the city, it did not even feel like college to me. I couldn’t get out of there fast enough. While I was strongly encouraged by my parents, the admissions interviewer, and the local rep to apply, I couldn’t picture myself there.</p>

<p>After visiting all the Top 12 schools over the last 8 months, and applying and being accepted to 5 of these schools, Northwestern was the only school whose acceptance notification gave me butterflies. I now just feel excited about college, no nerves, no worries, knowing I found the right one.</p>

11

<p>My daughter is trying to decide between Columbia, Univ. of Penn, Washington University in St. Louis, and Northwestern. Her major is neuroscience and/or biological sciences (not pre-med.) She has a strong interest in research and would like to pursue research opportunities during her undergraduate years.</p>

<p>----Frankly she will be fine whichever choice she makes. These are all OUTSTANDING universities. I would consider cost, even if you can afford it why waste the extra money unnecessarily? Is there a big difference in cost?</p>

<p>She is looking for a school that is strong in academics and has a nice social atmosphere. She wants to attend a school with smart happy students who enjoy socializing with each other. She wants an atmosphere where students work together and support/build each other up, instead of tear each other down and sabatoge one another.</p>

<p>----Academically, they are all STRONG. I would actually but Wash U at the top in terms of a nurturing supportive and collective environment. It is very “liberal arts college-ish” in many ways. Columbia is an urban campus without the kind of “college campus life” that the others might have. Northwestern is rather sorority/fraternity oriented socially with an upscale (i.e. wealthy kids and families) shopping area nearby. She would also be able to attend football/basketball games as with other major state U’s if she enjoys that. Penn provides a variety of activity perhaps more so than the Columbia and NU in terms of balance. It depends what she would prefer.</p>

<p>She wants a school with supportive and informed advisors, faculty that actually hold office hours, and a student services center that can assist students if they are stuggling.</p>

<p>----Again I gotta go with Wash U, but most of these campuses provide these services.</p>

<p>The aforementioned schools are all wonderful. However, because she is an out-of-state student (from CA), she would like input from others who have more knowledge of each school. She is planning a visit to all the aforementioned schools this month. </p>

<p>What part of CA? I think if she is used to an urban environment a la L.A. or the Bay area, then Chicago/New York/Philly would provide for her in a way that St. Louis might not. Personally, I would opt for Northwestern or Columbia depending on aid, but it sounds like Wash U might fit her personality more unless she is a big city girl.</p>

12

<p>lol, I’m kind of in the same boat (deciding between NW, Dartmouth, UChicago, etc.). Although they’re similar academically, I would say that UChicago arguable has more of a reputation in academic circles. I’m also not much of a party-goer.</p>

<p>On the other hand, Dartmouth focuses more on undergrads and has strong campus traditions. The college seems more tight-knit and has a cool sounding name; the weather turns me off though.</p>

<p>Northwestern, although arguably weaker academically, is pretty chill and has some nice beaches.</p>

<p>Right now, I’m leaning towards Northwestern. But before I decide, I will go to Dimensions and Wildcat Days. Either way, I can’t necessarily go wrong: they all cost around the same, they’re similar in recognition, etc.</p>

13

<p>“Northwestern, although arguably weaker academically, is pretty chill and has some nice beaches.”</p>

<p>Northwestern “chill” - you might be talking about the weather, but if you are not on your game in that quarter system academically, NU will snow you under.</p>

<p>Of your choices afkatm - I would opt for Chicago or Dartmouth.</p>

14

<p>

</p>

<p>For premed??? For neuro?? Huh? (or, unless you live in the NE)</p>

<p>WashU easily equals Columbia and Penn for opportunities, in all but the name of an athletic league. Top-ranked med school (and sciences) and laid-back, supportive students. </p>

<p>Columbia is a GRAD-focused Uni (compare the ratio of grads/undergrads) and urban (NYC is its campus).</p>

<p>Northwestern has D1 sports and Greek presence. Suburban location.</p>

<p>Can’t go wrong with any of them. Visit, and see which she likes/dislikes.</p>

15

<p>As an overall undergraduate experience; offering a combination of weighty academics (certainly on par with your other options - at a minimum) and a social vibrancy unmatched by any of your other choices (or perhaps any similarly regarded school), IMO it would be difficult to rival Northwestern. </p>

<p>That being said, you daughter cannot go wrong with any of her options.</p>

16

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<p>I thought that Northwestern is generally less difficult than UChicago and Dartmouth? I’m still leaning towards Northwestern because UChicago (imo) hinders students’ social lives while Dartmouth is in the middle of nowhere.</p>

17

<p>I haven’t encountered any evidence that UChicago is harder than either NU or Dartmouth. In fact, given the average GPA of UChicago and NU students (around 3.3-3.4 each), it’s much harder to be on the Dean’s list at NU since the cut-off is 3.7. At Chicago, the cutoff is 3.25. That said, the absolute number is what matters in the end when it concerns law/med school admissions.</p>

18

<p>Exactly. But earning a 3.5 at UChicago is noticeably harder than getting a 3.5 at NW; you’re competing on the same curve, but the academics are more rigorous and the students more academically inclined.</p>

19

<p>I’m not sure how academics at UChicago are more rigorous. I know it has that reputation but I haven’t seen any proof it’s actually true.</p>

20

<p>Well all of the feedback is great. To answer a few questions, (1) the price for the ivy appears to be a little better than the other (it just about a $3000-$4000 difference) and (2) my daughter lives in L.A. </p>

<p>We know it will definitely be a weather change, which will take some adjustments.</p>

<p>It seems that CC has alot of negative things to say about Columbia undergraduate. Are there no happy Columbia undergrads? My impression from what I am reading is that Columbia is anti-social on the undergraduate level. No school spirit? Is this true?</p>