I am potentially interested in finance or business but I am not entirely sure and I definitely want to explore other options. I am not super keen on frat life but prefer the bar/club scene. I am also interested in environmental science and sustainability. However, finance is also very appealing to me. And insight would be great
If you are into finance, Wharton finance is at the top of the game. Wharton has something like 600+ students a year (a half of the size of the entire P). Its size (economy of scale) enables most internship and job opportunities for its students; I would say it is on par with H. But at the same time, since there are so many business majors at Wharton, the competition within Wharton is particularly intense. Also, the culture at Wharton is preprofessional, and some courses are curved to more like B+. In a few courses, students are being asked to evaluate among themselves for team projects; this happens more in a business school. This can be a source of unhappiness.
Due to its location, Columbia has good access to internship and finance/business jobs, very close to that of Wharton. Its education is basically a liberal arts education, not a preprofessional one like Wharton. The school culture is thus somewhat different. At Columbia, the most popular major for Wall Street is economics.
If you do attend Wharton - which is one of the best, if not the best, undergraduate business schools in the country - and you decide that you really want to major in something else, you can apply for an internal transfer to the College of Arts & Sciences (or Engineering & Applied Sciences, or Nursing, in theory - in practice, it would probably be difficult to transfer and complete those programs in four years). CAS has majors in environmental science and earth science; there’s also a special integrated program in energy research. There’s also a special program in the natural sciences and management - it’s focused on biotechnology, but it may be flexible.
Columbia has a range of environmental-related majors: environmental biology, environmental chemistry, environmental science, and sustainable development. Columbia’s a top place for environmental studies, with the Earth Institute one of the major funded areas of Columbia that does lots of research in this subject. Columbia’s Earth and environmental sciences department is also affiliated with the Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory (which has offices right on Broadway on Columbia’s campus - the actual observatory is in Palisades, which is a suburb of NYC 18 miles north of Manhattan), the American Museum of Natural History (not too far away on 81st St), and the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies (part of the Earth Institute and located on Columbia’s campus as well).
New York, of course, has an excellent bar/club scene - but so does Philadelphia. (Unfortunately, you won’t get to experience much of it in either city until you turn 21.)
Columbia does have a special concentration in business management sponsored by the school of business. It’s not a major - it’s rather more like a minor.
Either could be a good choice. At Penn, there is the level of uncertainty about transferring from Wharton to CAS if you should decide to change your major to environmental science, but obviously Wharton is one of the best places to be for undergrad business. Columbia students very frequently go onto Wall Street careers if that’s what you are really interested in, and there’s the opportunity to study business (perhaps). Both cities likely have great internship opportunities.
Columbia and Penn are quite different schools in terms of culture, campus atmosphere, environment, social life etc.
In both schools you will have plenty of opportunities to break into Wall Street, but Wharton is the place to be if you are dead-set of finance.
Check out this specialized program at Penn as it might pertain to your interests in environmental science & sustainability. https://www.viper.upenn.edu/about It is an amazing program but quite hard to get in.
Also look at the Earth & Environmental Science program at CAS. https://www.sas.upenn.edu/earth/undergraduate-programs
At Penn it is very easy to take classes across many different disciplines since all classes in all schools are open to all undergrads and also Penn has no common core like Columbia so your curriculum is quite flexible to explore things. Penn really encourages interdisciplinary education. Also if you get into Wharton, it is quite easy to pick up the environmental science major in CAS if you want to.
Also as a Wharton undergrad, about 40% of your classes are taken outside Wharton, so you get a combination of pre-professional and liberal arts education.
I think in the end the opportunities and the quality Columbia and Penn offer is very comparable. However as I said they are rather different schools so the choice comes down to fit more than anything else.
So basically I asked this question after I had already chosen the school. I am a rowing commit and I preferred the campus feel and the rowing team at Columbia. I am also not sure that finance is what I want to do in life because I want to do something more meaningful potentially. But say I do end up deciding to go into finance, did I make a huge mistake by rejecting Wharton? And am I putting myself at a significant disadvantage for post-college job opportunities by going to Columbia instead of Wharton?
Thanks
You made your choice. Stop second guessing yourself. It it is time to stop looking backward and start looking forward.
@jovermeer What made you choose Columbia? Currently facing the same decision of Penn vs Columbia. I am interested in economics (not business) and bioengineering and I would love to hear your thoughts that lead you to this choice. Thanks!
joevermeer- I have a son potentially facing the same choice, with the same two schools, though he is only a junior. Can I ask if you were recruited by Penn for rowing too? 2K time? Just curious.
@captaxe I was recruited by both Columbia and Penn for lightweight rowing. My 2k was a 6:25 when I was recruited
Thanks Jovermeer. Good luck to you. As others have written, feel secure in your choice and look ahead!
@ivyoxbridge1 I chose is because I think the core curriculum could be very beneficial because it will force me to take courses that I may not have taken otherwise. I am also very undecided on a major and Wharton is obviously very business and finance focused. I think t Columbia you will find a more diverse student body as well. Also just the feel at Columbia fit me more. It felt more classy and not as trashy and I absolutely loved the campus. It felt like a fortress in New York City. A huge reason for my decision was the rowing team. Columbia just came off a national championship season and the guys and coaches a very cool and fit my personality. I think at Columbia you will get a more well-rounded liberal arts education and set you up for any profession. It was mostly about the feel for me.
I think I just answered me original question
I agree that you can’t make a bad decision here and should pick the one that fits you best. D was admitted to both in Engineering and had to go to both schools admitted student days to decide. Both will provide excellent career opportunities.
The Columbia core curriculum is a very interesting and some students like NYC. Other students like the more flexible curriculum at Penn that allows for more flexibility and tailoring to your interests, Penn also has a more traditional campus, and Philadelphia. Both schools are quite rigorous, and I have been told that the cross admits spit at about 50/50 in which school they choose. My daughter felt more comfortable at Penn, overall, but it was close.
@jovermeer Out of curiosity what made you feel that Penn was trashy?
@ivyoxbridge1 I agree with OP that the decision between the two schools is mostly about fit. The part about getting a more well-rounded education at Columbia than at Penn and having a more well-rounded student body is rather debatable --personally I don’t think either of these are true but obviously people look at things differently. Wharton is a business school so of course it is business-focused but 40% of your classes are taken outside of Wharton at other schools at Penn and you have the chance to pursue dual degrees and minors outside Wharton. But anyway you are not interested in business so you would not be at Wharton. You would be at CAS (Econ) and SEAS ( bioengineering) The same principle applies though, you would get both a technical and liberal arts education with your combination of majors. It is important to consider how easy it is to double-major at Columbia. At Penn it is quite feasible to do. At the end of the day your choice will come down to fit more than anything.
@jovermeer You really did just answer your own question. It’s natural to have some second thoughts - you had two fantastic options. Not to worry. I have nothing bad to say about Penn, but Columbia’s Core Curriculum is a unique undergraduate program, whereas if you decide to get an MBA, you can do that in a few years hence. And if you’re serious about rowing, you’re going to spend a lot of time with your teammates, so that’s a very valid basis to choose. Good luck!
stanford,harvard,uchicago >>>>>>> try thoseeee
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Much ballyhoo, I feel, is made about the Core Curriculum at Columbia here on CC. I contend that the Core is really just a specialized version of the General Education requirements you’d have to take anywhere else.
The Core is University Writing, Literature Humanities (2 semesters), Contemporary Civilization (2 semesters), Frontiers of Science (1 semester) plus two additional semesters of science courses, the Global Core (2 semesters, of which you can choose from a list of classes), Art Humanities (1 semester), Music Humanities (1 semester) and four semesters of a foreign language.
At [url=<a href=“https://www.college.upenn.edu/curriculum-structure%5DPenn%5B/url”>https://www.college.upenn.edu/curriculum-structure]Penn[/url], you have to take one semester of writing, four semesters of a foreign language, two classes in analysis, two classes in cultural perspectives, and one course in each of the seven sectors (Society, History & Tradition, Arts & Letters, Humanities & Social Sciences, Living World, Physical World, and Natural Sciences & Mathematics).
Rough Equivalencies: Penn = Columbia
Penn writing = University Writing
History & Tradition + Arts & Letters = Lit Hum
Humanities & Social Sciences + Society = Contemporary Civilization
Living, Physical and Natural Sciences = 3 semester science requirement
Cultural perspectives courses = Global Core
4 semesters of foreign language at both
The biggest differences are:
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Penn gives you a degree of choice on how you’re going to complete the vast majority of these classes, which allows you to pursue what you’re most interested in within the confines of the requirements. Columbia requires specific courses in most areas, so that all Columbia students have a shared experience in the Core.
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Columbia requires two semesters in the fine arts through Art Hum and Music Hum, which many colleges also require. Penn does not - but instead requires two semesters of analysis/reasoning classes - which are, in my opinion, far more useful.
@Penn95 I didn’t mean to say Penn was trashy, I think it was more Philadelphia itself. The campus of Penn was awesome and there isn’t anything trashy about it. One more question I have is do you think I have put myself at a disadvantage by choosing Columbia over Wharton if I decide I want to go into finance?
@jovermeer Ah I see. Of course you are better positioned to enter finance through Wharton than Columbia, but there are still plenty of opportunities at Columbia too. So in the end it is hard to say if Wharton would have made a huge difference. On the whole, Penn has better business recruiting and salary outcomes than Columbia nd the Penn alumni network in business is bigger but the difference is not huge. And the Columbia location helps too. So in the end if you liked Columbia better, it was probably worth choosing it. You will still have great chances at Columbia.