<p>You really don't know anything about Columbia.</p>
<p>You can't even begin to put together a defense for yourself. That's how deep your made up experiences have dug you. Now go away.</p>
<p>Hmm what happened to JohnnyK lately? I'd rather have him than posterX.</p>
<p>posterX is an online parasite. Where's the exterminator? (Dooley)</p>
<p>posterX does this same kind of thing over on the Hopkins section. He accuses Hopkins of having three-foot long rats on campus!! The Hopkins STUDENTS say they have never seen any rats on campus, but this has not deterred posterX!!!</p>
<p>Well Poster,</p>
<p>Do you remember back a few months ago when the Summers, the President of Harvard stepped down? Of course, most people immediately say that it was because of all his opinions and that one nasty comment about women's place in science. Well the fact is, the teaching staff at Harvard wasn't too warm to him because of a number of events. One reason? Because he wanted the teachers to stop focusing so much on their own pursuits and actually teach.</p>
<p>Wiki:
Another factor that has been proposed is a supposed substantive disagreement about the structure and philosophy of the undergraduate curriculum, amidst an intensive curricular review initiated during Summers' term. Summers proposed that more emphasis be put on undergraduate education and requested that professors take greater responsibility in teaching their undergraduate classes, as opposed to delegating to teaching fellows.</p>
<p>So when you say that places like Harvard, Yale, Princeton and other elite schools have much better teachers than at Columbia, you should try finding out how many of those better teachers are actually teaching.</p>
<p>Hey Folks, How do you think the Columbia students get those HYP T-shirts. Those t-shirts are handed out at the admitted students sessions. So, the student receives the free t-shirts from all of the universities that he/she was admitted to and is considering, then chooses to attend Columbia -- but will still WEAR the other perfectly good t-shirts. </p>
<p>No inferiority complex. Just a drawer full of perfectly good t-shirts that happen to say the name of a school that the student decided not to attend...</p>
<p>Gee posterx, it's a good thing you're NOT going to Columbia then, right? Let those of us who are enjoy it.</p>
<p>Haha, I'll put my money on the possibility that posterX was flat-out rejected from Columbia (and Hopkins) and his bitter agony has left him stranded in an online forum which holds him in great contempt.</p>
<p>Let's just end this now.........you don't want to turn any prospective CC 12ers away from all that Columbia can offer with these sorts of attitudes. Regardless of who is right, this thread isn't making anyone look good.</p>
<p>truazn- I don't think you should even compare posterX to JohnnyK. JohnnyK is at least a little bit fairer, better intentioned, and just a cool person.</p>
<p>...and has a sense of humor. Sure, he comes over to troll our board and post pro-Penn stuff, but it seems he also knows when enough is enough.</p>
<p>"Vesalvay, I firmly believe that for me and those people truly seeking a comprehensive education, Columbia's Core education will educate them as well as, and probably better than Harvard, Yale, or Princeton ever can."</p>
<p>Hmmm.....I think most objective reviewers would disagree strongly with that statement. That's not to say that Columbia is a bad school --- indeed, it remains one of the finest academic centers in the nation.</p>
<p>However, for any number of reasons Columbia University (the College AND SEAS) is not at all a full-on peer to HYPSMC:</p>
<ul>
<li>range of programs that are clearly tops in their fields</li>
<li>total intellectual firepower of the faculty (awards, citations, etc)</li>
<li>financial resources per student (endowment, research funding)</li>
<li>funding for independent student research/study abroad/other leadership ECs</li>
<li>range/scope/diversity of classmates and social contacts postgraduation</li>
</ul>
<p>HYP have always stood head and shoulders above ALL other schools for decades due to those five points. Also, Stanford has come on so strong in the last 30 years, it's arguably second to none for undergrad.</p>
<p>[The truest test is where people think they'll get the best education is RD yields --> HYS dominate by big margins. Princeton is interestingly at the bottom of that pack, darned close to the rest of the top schools in the nation. These yields have moved slightly, but not so much that people are "fooled" by a school's momentary hotness -- therefore, they're a good proxy for perceived quality of education]</p>
<p>While the humanities and sciences are very strong at Columbia (and Penn, Duke, Cornell, Chicago, JHU), HYP is still the top. But you can still get an awesome education at any of these schools.</p>
<p>So back to the original post: Does Columbia have an inferiority complex - I'd say yes. </p>
<ul>
<li><p>Partly due to the fact that HYPS (and M) are truly the Super Elite.
(all the schools have a touch of that complex; it even exist among the Super Elites)</p></li>
<li><p>Partly due to the fact that many Columbia kids (and grad students too) seem to have a chip on their shoulder as HYP rejects. And Poster X's claims are - on the whole - exactly right, your collective protests notwithstanding. </p></li>
</ul>
<p>Note that this is the only inferiority thread on all the Ivy's segments of this site...and look how much action it's caused. Lots of angst among Columbia trollers......that tells you something right there.</p>
<p>I wouldn't concern myself with Poster X since he/she would've gone to Harvard if he/she gotten in. Everyone knows that most people at Yale would have preferred to be in Cambridge. New Haven is a toilet!!</p>
<p>
[quote]
However, for any number of reasons Columbia University (the College AND SEAS) is not at all a full-on peer to HYPSMC:</p>
<ul>
<li>range of programs that are clearly tops in their fields</li>
<li>total intellectual firepower of the faculty (awards, citations, etc)</li>
<li>financial resources per student (endowment, research funding)</li>
<li>funding for independent student research/study abroad/other leadership ECs</li>
<li>range/scope/diversity of classmates and social contacts postgraduation
[/quote]
</li>
</ul>
<p>are you kidding me? couldnt find lists for all these schools but did for stanford:
<a href="http://www.stanford.edu/home/stanford/facts/faculty.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.stanford.edu/home/stanford/facts/faculty.html</a>
here's columbia's: <a href="http://www.columbia.edu/cu/pr/special/nowin.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.columbia.edu/cu/pr/special/nowin.html</a>
and here's mass' 8th district (notice both harvard and mit) <a href="http://www.house.gov/capuano/about/nobel.shtml%5B/url%5D">http://www.house.gov/capuano/about/nobel.shtml</a></p>
<p>range and scope of diversity and contacts? i can only speak about yale but i'm sure that others do it as well: yale likes to separate everyone on financial aid into one of the residential colleges (think its JE, cant remember tho). also, since freshmen at yale dont live in their colleges during freshman year, those on fin.aid also tend to be put into the same suites on old campus. now, i realize there are classes and extra curriculars to meet other people in but i think we can both agree the majority of one's college friends comes from those that we live with. tell me how that fosters diversity? sure i will admit it that yale probably has the most well known families, but that doesnt really mean much as far as contacts go.</p>
<p>like i said, cant speak of any other schools but we can at least cross yale off that list.</p>
<p>just going to lump funding into 1 category. also...what the hell is the C in your HYPSMC if its not columbia? but anyways, kind of like the last point, i can pick apart the argument for at least 1 school: MIT has only about a billion dollars more than columbia yet has 3000 more students. stanford has 15.2bil but 7k undergrads and 8k grads. in the end, except for maybe harvard which is leaps and bounds above the rest in terms of endowment, the numbers per student just simply arent that different. yes if you feel like it you could argue a few thousand dollars but lets agree that it doesnt make that much of a difference.</p>
<p>and lastly, range of top fields etc etc: find me a good listing of all fields and where schools fall on them. exactly, none exists because no one cares about all fields. people care about economics and poli.sci. of which columbia is very highly ranked among HYPSM and that rankings dont really reflect the true nature of teaching.</p>
<p>also, just want to throw it out there that the harvard faculty is notorious for not teaching.</p>
<p>yields: <a href="http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/archives/2007/05/18/news/18499.shtml%5B/url%5D">http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/archives/2007/05/18/news/18499.shtml</a>
oh my god! a 4% difference from yale! [/end sarcasm] </p>
<p>now, back to the part of your post that really annoyed me:
[quote]
So back to the original post: Does Columbia have an inferiority complex - I'd say yes.</p>
<ul>
<li><p>Partly due to the fact that HYPS (and M) are truly the Super Elite.
(all the schools have a touch of that complex; it even exist among the Super Elites)</p></li>
<li><p>Partly due to the fact that many Columbia kids (and grad students too) seem to have a chip on their shoulder as HYP rejects. And Poster X's claims are - on the whole - exactly right, your collective protests notwithstanding.
[/quote]
</p></li>
</ul>
<p>once again, like the rest of the trolls on this board, you dont go to columbia and dont know what you are talking about. if you had a shred of intelligence in you, you would know that you are pulling things out of thin air and you are just perpetuating the ivy league stereotype of the snobbish malapert</p>
<p>
[quote]
Note that this is the only inferiority thread on all the Ivy's segments of this site...and look how much action it's caused. Lots of angst among Columbia trollers......that tells you something right there.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>yes! why is it that you people from other schools must come over here to troll?? notice that the only reason this has gotten so much response is because you have people like posterx who post blatantly incorrect things that people who DO go to columbia feel inclined to correct. if i went over to the penn board and started saying how the dining hall kitchens are covered in rat feces, you would have a big problem with that i'm sure.</p>
<p>And about Columbia students being rejected from HYP...sure, a good percentage of them are. But a majority of students at either of those schools was rejected from not only the other 2 members of HYP, but also Columbia. You act like being rejected is something exclusive to Columbia students.
And on the point of grad students being rejected by HYP, first of all, Columbia's grad programs, in many cases, are better than HYP's. Princeton's don't really exist, but besides that, Columbia is competitive or better than HY in almost every field, except for perhaps law, in which Yale owns everyone.
Also, Columbia admitted grad students have an even higher propensity to turn down HYP than do the undergrads, simply because the programs are in most cases considered to be as good as those at HYPSM, and that grad students tend to want a life...hence they head to NYC.</p>
<p>1) Children, don't feed the trolls.</p>
<p>2) s snack, I wouldnt be so sure about that. Anecdotal evidence aside, I don't think college admissions is as much of a crapshoot as we tell ourselves. In the last 4 years I've come to think maybe we all think a bit too much of our own accomplishments- not all high school accomplishments are created equal, and I think adcoms know how to tell them apart. </p>
<p>3) Skraylor, slipper1234 is right. "Harvard College", "Yale College", etc. cover the entire undergraduate population at their respective universitys. "Columbia College" does not. Furthermore, the points about atmosphere are spot on, in my opinion. Because there are 3+1 undergraduate schools at Columbia that are poorly organized in relation to one another (CC/SEAS are mostly together, GS isn't even mentioned in any CC/SEAS recruitment literature, and Barnard is technically not part of the university. Technically.) As a result there's far too much in fighting over who "is" a "columbia student" which after 4 years you realize is the most incredibly shallow and insecure thing to fight over.</p>
<p>3) As for the inferiority complex, and the infighting above, I think it's fed by the current culture admissions and the consumerization of higher education. The whole admissions process is centered around suceeding where others fail- and this somehow is supposed to reflect on your accomplishments. You got into Columbia, you are among the "elect" the "chosen". It's a sense of entitlement- and it brings with it a need to differentiate. You don't go to HPYS- for whatever reason. But your school is better than <strong><em>, right? There has to be some distinction between you and the 17000 students who didn't get in, some of whom will be attending _</em></strong>__. Furthermore, college has become a commodity- which school is better? which is the better buy? which is the superior product? Actually, now that I think about it, within 1.5 years you guys won't care about Harvard anymore. You'll be too busy feeling resentful about BC and GS. </p>
<p>Let me just link to a senior column from spec this year, its a good bit of advice, and will maybe put this institutional onanism to rest.</p>
<p>i'm going to assume that you mean red&blue and not slipper because the last post slipper had was on page 2 or so.</p>
<p>ok, these are the numbers i was using: <a href="http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0112636.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0112636.html</a></p>
<p>those say universities, not colleges.</p>
<p>and, really? you think columbia is not as diverse as HYP? really? i dont know what bubble you lived in while on campus then, assuming you are a student/alum....</p>
<p>who is a columbia student: harvard has a GS school too, yet you dont see them counting it as an undergrad school (and it shouldnt be either. its a different type of institution for a different type of student)</p>
<p>you want to count barnard as a school too? you can try but way it's set up, it isnt and the only real "fighting" you see about it is very rare and far between (with the exception of the barnard board here)</p>
<p>superiority/infighting: the thing is, there is no infighting here. no one here has agreed that there is, in fact, an inferiority complex at columbia that ACTUALLY GOES/has GONE to columbia. the only place that comes from is the trolls who decide to pull things out of their a**. like i said, i keep asking why they decide to come onto our boards and say things like that but i never get an answer.</p>
<p>edit: it appears you are in fact a student, please ignore the little jab above</p>
<p>You two need to take off your Columbia blinders. It's clouding your logic and makes you both sound like raving lunatics.</p>
<p>I'll pick apart your posts in reverse order (if for nothing else, because you're both rather backwards in your thinking).</p>
<p>And for the record, I don't go to Columbia but know an awful lot about all the top schools. And I've interviewed and hired a number of people from CU undergrad, law and business schools so I know the relative strengths of all three compared to their peers. I'd like to know the basis for your respective comparisons, btw.</p>
<p>1) Grad school ratings</p>
<ul>
<li>Arts and Sciences (from The Rise of American Research Universities: Elites and Challengers in the Postwar Era) - the most objective general study of A&S around </li>
</ul>
<p>Stanford
Princeton
Chicago/Yale/Harvard
Columbia
Penn/Duke</p>
<ul>
<li><p>Business (US News, Businessweek, FT)
Harvard/Stanford/Penn
MIT
Northwestern
Chicago
Columbia
Duke
Michigan</p></li>
<li><p>Law (US News, Leiter)</p></li>
</ul>
<p>Yale
harvard
Stanford
Columbia/NYU
Chicago/Penn</p>
<ul>
<li><p>Medicine
harvard
JHU
Penn
USCF
Duke
Yale
Stanford
Washington
Columbia</p></li>
<li><p>Engineering
Cornell
Princeton
the rest of the Ivives don't matter except in a few fields (e.g., bioengineering at Penn)
Columbia</p></li>
<li><p>Arts (drama, art, etc)
Yale is supreme among the Ivies and really only compete with the conservatories (eg, Curtiss Institute, Julliard, etc.)</p></li>
</ul>
<p>Princeton has few grad programs, but those it has are stunningly excellent. </p>
<p>Net, net - Columbia is very strong here. Among the Ivies overall it may be third to H and Penn, but for specific degrees (as shown above) Columbia has lethal competitors (incl S, M, C, C, etc.)</p>
<p>2) Rejection from HYPS -- it happens to the best of them. Given the selectivity (admit rates, SAT scores, ECs) it's clear HYPS have their pick of the very best. Sure some kids will pick Columbia or Duke or Penn or Chicago for personal reasons. But the majority go with those four. RD yields prove it. Enough said. </p>
<p>BTW, if you guys want to repond, please tell me why Columbia's RD yield is sixth in the Ivy League behind H Y Pr Pe B and in line with D)?????</p>
<p>3) Endowment</p>
<p>You can't add or read.....Columbia's endowment as of mid 2006 was $5.9 BB. MIT has $8.4 BB. That's alot more than $1.0 BB you dope. MIT has approx 10,000 students total, Columbia has over 22,000. Allowing for growth since mid-last year, Stanford has $16-18 bn; Yale as $18-20 bn; Penn has 6.0-$6.5 bn. The H-bomb is certainly well north of $32 bn by now. </p>
<p>The numbers per student are staggeringly different. Per student, Penn = Cornell = Columbia at $230-$270K per capita. Amazing that these three schools are as good as they are with 1/4 to 1/8 of the $$$ resources of HYSP.</p>
<p>4) Range of fields [i've posted this elsewhere] but here we go again:
[from US News; i've noted </p>
<ol>
<li>Massachusetts Institute of Technology
University of Chicago </li>
<li>Harvard University (MA)
Princeton University (NJ)
Stanford University (CA)
University of CaliforniaBerkeley </li>
<li>Yale University (CT) </li>
<li>Northwestern University (IL) </li>
<li>University of Pennsylvania </li>
<li>University of California San Diego </li>
<li>Columbia University (NY)
University of California Los Angeles
University of MichiganAnn Arbor
University of WisconsinMadison </li>
<li>New York University
University of MinnesotaTwin Cities </li>
<li>California Institute of Technology </li>
</ol>
<p>generally, in other econ rankings (faculty awards, productivity & citations):</p>
<p>Chicago/MIT
harvard/stanford/berkeley
yale
penn
princeton
northwestern
UCLA or UCSD
columbia</p>
<p>PoliSci (again, unfortunately USNews)</p>
<ol>
<li>Harvard University (MA) 5.0 </li>
<li>Stanford University (CA) 4.9</li>
<li>University of MichiganAnn Arbor 4.8 </li>
<li>Princeton University (NJ) 4.7 </li>
<li>University of CaliforniaBerkeley 4.6
Yale University (CT) 4.6 </li>
<li>University of CaliforniaSan Diego 4.4 </li>
<li>Duke University (NC) 4.3
University of Chicago 4.3 </li>
<li>Columbia University (NY) 4.2
Massachusetts Institute of Technology 4.2
University of CaliforniaLos Angeles 4.2 </li>
</ol>
<p>And i assure you Skraylor, people care ALOT more than only two majors. Yet another pathetic attempt to cherry pick stats to make Columbia seem better than it is......check the top of my post. Per that ranking, C is solidly in the top 10 among arts and sciences, but it's NOT amongst HYSPM across the board. That study looked at all faculty strenghts and achievements and then adjusted for faculty size; it's a great measure of true academic quality</p>
<p>Finally, teaching.....which is very hard to measure. Completely subjectively, i'd place the schools in the following order:</p>
<p>yale/princeton
stanford
mit
chicago
penn
columbia (lots of TAs, professors who aren't resident near campus or are drawn to the brighter lights of the rest of Manhattan)
harvard</p>
<p>There you have it --- the basis for Columbia's inferiority (against, it should be noted, the VERY VERY best universities in the world). Just to make you guys feel better, I'd guess 98% percent of the universities in the world are in that same boat.</p>