<p>I think Yale is a wonderful school and would love to be accepted next year, but there is one thing that I'm worrying about. Is everyone at Yale obsessed at showing-up and bashing Harvard, just because they couldn't get in? Is there always an anti-Harvard feeling at Yale, or does that usually just creep up before the Harvard-Yale game? I just think I would find it to be very annoying to be surrounded by people who are bitter about their rejections from Harvard, or who just didn't apply to Harvard because they were against the school for some reason, because of legacies or whatever. I have found Yale to be a better match for me, but I still think Harvard is a great school and I hope Yale isn't always comparing itself.</p>
<p>Isn't Yale a bit harder to get into than Harvard now (acceptance rate-wise?) </p>
<p>I think there are quite a few ppl out there (particularly those that applied ED/EA whatever) that loved Yale and aren't bitter about not attending Harvard.</p>
<p>I've talked to people who go there and they all firmly believe that Yale is the better school.</p>
<p>And as for an inferiority complex...I know that Duke has a bit of a complex like this. I wouldn't call it an "inferiority" complex, but Duke is really ambitious and is always out to prove itself to the Ivies, and all the Duke students I've spoken to say that it's a good feeling and it promotes a good ethic on campus, since it promotes progress and continual improvement. So I don't think having a desire to become one of the best is necessarily a bad thing...</p>
<p>I do believe brand_182 is right about the stats - Yale is harder to get into these days. I see no reason for a student to believe Harvard is better. The two schools are different, and though many people would be equally happy at both, there are some that one of the two schools doesn't fit the needs of. I'm not even applying to Harvard, but I applied to Yale early. Yale is a much more artsy campus, due to its incredible music and theatre programs. Harvard isn't an art-dead place at all, it's just not such a big part of campus life, or so it has seemed to me. Also, Harvard doesn't seem to have quite as strong of a residential college system.</p>
<p>I seriously doubt there are any issues with people being mad they're not at Harvard. If I was at Harvard.. I'd be mad that I wasn't at Yale.</p>
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If I was at Harvard.. I'd be mad that I wasn't at Yale.
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<p>ditto.....</p>
<p>I don't think it's an inferiority complex. Yalies tend to have a ton of school spirit and honestly believe that they go to the greatest college on earth. I think the Harvard thing is just good-natured school rivalry. I think you'd see a lot of the same stuff in any other college rivalry and it doesn't mean that everyone at those schools has an inferiority complex or is bitter.</p>
<p>haha to say that at yale you are surrounded by students bitter about their rejections from harvard is about the most ridiculous thing ive heard on here...</p>
<p>i'm asking this because of an article i read written by a yallie last year where he addresses this, and how he was annoyed by the anti-harvard feeling, but maybe he was exaggerating things some what.</p>
<p>You said you found Yale to be a better match... probably if you attended, you'd be surrounded with a bunch of people who felt the same way. It doesn't have to be a second choice.</p>
<p>You'll find a lot more trash talking from the crimson than vis versa. To be honest, we don't care much about Harvard because unlike their students, we're happy.</p>
<p>Yale was founded by Harvard discontents who felt like Harvard was growing too theologically lax; so in some ways, Yale has had Harvard in its sights from the very beginning. The rivalry is more inherited than anything else - it's just a part of going to Yale. I don't think it's much of an inferiority thing. I didn't apply to Harvard because I didn't think it would offer me what I wanted out of a college experience, but Yale could. Others made the same decision. Others were rejected / waitlisted at Harvard and would've gone there if they'd gotten in, others were rejected/waitlisted and weren't planning on going anyhow. Still others got in and turned Harvard down. While I understand Harvard wins the cross-admit battle 65/35, I know there are plenty of Cantabs who were rejected or waitlisted from Yale, so feelings of inferiority don't trouble me too much.</p>
<p>At some level, I think the Harvard-hating is a reflection of some Yalies' bitterness that there is a disconnect between what they genuinely perceive to be the best college in the nation (Yale) and what most others consider it to be (Harvard). I know it grates on me. I love Yale so much and, after visiting Harvard for The Game this past weekend, it seems impossible that others would think it the better place for an undergrad (I asked one Cantab what he thought of Harvard, and he said, "It's the happiest place on earth!!" "Wow, Really?" "No." ). And yet Harvard is, and likely will be for the forseeable future, the #1 name brand in higher education. So that galls us a bit.</p>
<p>But more than that, I think the Harvard/Yale rivalry is just fun. It's surprisingly community-building, too. I know it's tremendous fun to shout "Harvard Sucks!" at The Game, and I'm sure when Cantabs jeer "saaaaaafety school" towards the Yale bleachers, they're having a ton of fun too. But its all in good fun, of course, because, in the words of one Cantab writer: "If the taunts were true, of course, they would be mean. But because they are concealed beneath a veil of mutual respect, they're harmless." (<a href="http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=160498%5B/url%5D">http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=160498</a>) I'm not a big fan of Harvard College, but its impossible not to respect the intelligence and ambition of Harvard undergrads themselves. </p>
<p>I wouldn't worry about the rivalry too much. I fought it for a little while, but, especially after The Game, I realized it's something that should be embraced. We'll all probably end up working for the same depressing i-banking firm, so it's no harm to tease each other along the way.</p>
<p>Best,
DMW</p>
<p>dmw, I think we've had this conversation in person if those three letters are your initials. I can't believe I didn't figure it out.</p>
<p>I go to Harvard but I'd like to add just a little bit to this conversation. I looked at Harvard and Yale when I applied to colleges in hs. I ended up not applying to Yale, and though this was not the reason, I did notice how Yale students seemed to compare themselves to Harvard quite often. In my junior year now I've met plenty of Yalies, and I think most of their Harvard jokes are really just a reflection of their school pride, as people have said above. I think the anti-Harvard sentiment exists beyond the Harvard-Yale game, but if you really liked Yale you should not let it bother you. </p>
<p>On the other side, since Harvard holds a particular place in the American imagination as the number one school students here are careful not to put down our peer instititutions. We don't want to live up to the bad stereotypes. </p>
<p>One last thing: haukim, honestly, Harvard students are unhappy? If you make generalizations like that you're just adding to the false stereotype the OP is concerned with.</p>
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I just think I would find it to be very annoying to be surrounded by people who are bitter about their rejections from Harvard, or who just didn't apply to Harvard because they were against the school for some reason, because of legacies or whatever. I have found Yale to be a better match for me, but I still think Harvard is a great school and I hope Yale isn't always comparing itself.
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<p>Well, I don't think it's really that bad. The truth is that, like it or not, Harvard wins the cross-admit battle with every school, so every school has some malcontents that would rather be at Harvard but didn't get in. I know you guys were talking about undergrad, but let me give you a grad example. At the MIT Sloan School's MBA program, there are people who are rather obviously ticked off because they would rather be going to Harvard Business School but didn't get in. One guy I know definitely comes to mind as clearly not being happy at Sloan. I think what really galled him was 2 things - #1, he went to Harvard for undergrad, so he couldn't believe that Harvard would reject him for business school, and #2, his wife DID get into HBS. If they had both gotten into HBS, they would have gone in together in the same class. But his wife wasn't going to give up HBS to join him at Sloan. </p>
<p>Getting back to undergrad, there are plenty of people at Princeton, Stanford, MIT, Berkeley, Caltech and the other top schools who would rather be going to Harvard, but didn't get in. Like it or not, Harvard does have the biggest brand name in education. So I don't think Yale is any worse off than most of the other schools out there in terms of 'bitterness'.</p>
<p>This seems like a good time to repost the ol' article:</p>
<p>When I visited over night at both Y & H, I actually noticed a reverse trend. People were more likely to say to me at harvard that "I don't know, Harvard's unquestionably #1, who can turn it down? I actually applied to Yale early, but didn't get in." While at Yale I heard more of " Both are really good schools and I'm sure you'd be fine at either. I just always really loved Yale and got in early so I'm here".</p>
<p>You may believed me biased, as a Yale SCEA applicant. But this I noticed before applying to Yale and it ended up influencing somewhat my decision between Yale vs. Harvard early.</p>
<p>I certainly think Harvard's a fantastic school and both schools have so much to offer academically that I encourage every prefrosh I've talked to at Yale to visit Harvard even if they had written it off. Yale and Harvard are very similar in most of their institutions. The differences are more in attitudes and implementation from what I've noticed.</p>
<p>GOMBD12</p>
<p>I admit, it's an unfair generalization and most of my friends at Harvard enjoy it. It is however something I've noticed. You'll hear many complaints from Harvard students while visiting. You'll find many articles regarding this matter on The Crimson.</p>
<p>
This is a classic: trash-talking in the guise of claiming to be "above" trash-talking.</p>
<p>I've attended both schools, my son is currently at Harvard and I have relatives currently at Yale. Both are terrific schools, and the vast majority of students at both are happy. I actually find it hard to believe that someone who would be happy at one wouldn't be happy at the other. Given that I think you really can't go wrong as between the two schools, best to choose the one that excites you the most (if you're lucky enough to have the choice). </p>
<p>And if you end up at one or the other, by all means join in the friendly rivalry that exists between the two. Just don't get so caught up in it that you actually start believing it. :)</p>
<p>Cosar, I'm not sure if I agree with you, to be honest. I met up with a Harvard friend last night, and he is taking a voluntary leave of absence for the rest of the year. He said he hates the place, decrying a lack of social life, lack of community spirit, and an unwillingness to make use of Boston. Admittedly I found it hard to believe, but he says there's more to do in New Haven than Cambridge (I guess it closes up too early?). Harvard, he said, was not a happy place. Moreover, he is not particularly well and it didn't seem like Harvard cared too much until he told them he was planning to leave. He's not sure yet if he'll go back for another year or apply to Yale, Princeton, or Notre Dame (probably ND).</p>
<p>I'm a little steamed at this point towards Harvard College. I will say again that I have every respect for Harvard students, but I have genuinely little love for Harvard College. It seems like a place that is great for independent people, self-starters who would probably be happy anywhere but can be most happy at an intellectual mecca like Harvard. The kids I talked to up at The Game told me that "Harvard is what you make of it" and that these next few years would probably be the most socially awkward times of their lives (I had said something about high school being awkward). It shocks me that a normal, pretty, nice girl would say that college was going to be the most socially awkward time of her life.</p>
<p>I'm sorry to turn this into something of a flame thread against your alma mater, and I'm sure it was very good to you, and is very good to many others. That being said, I don't think a student who thrives at one institution would necessarily thrive at the other. Yale and Harvard College have different cultures.</p>
<p>Regretfully,
DMW</p>
<p>everyone is different and I'm sure that you can find students at Yale equally unhappy with the place. I think this is really a symptom of students choosing a school on its name instead of "the right fit" whatever that may be. It happens at every prestigious college.</p>
<p>As for the rivalry, I only hate harvard when it comes to athletics and sporting events. Otherwise, Harvard is phenomenal, especially its medical school ;). It is sort of hard to hate Harvard if you love Yale since the two are pretty much the same in terms of college structure.</p>