<p>"I ma'y have graduated from Columbia, but I'm only part tool"</p>
<p>...by which I mean I wouldn't use the name of the firm I'm working for as my screen name on this forum.</p>
<p>Hah, cool. Do you know if Cerberus (the shop) recruits undergrads from Columbia?</p>
<p>As far as the original question is concerned, Columbia is relatively well known in Europe in my experience.</p>
<p>World apart--yes they do.</p>
<p>I cannot believe the comment that MIT is not well known! Let me nail the name recognition argument once and for all especially for those who are not smart enough to be disenthralled by the merely contemporary.</p>
<p>For the last 200 years Oxford and Cambridge ruled the roost. Since the 50s, Harvard started gaining but in the 60s Berkeley was up there, helped by several world leaders like Zulfikar Bhutto who went there. Worldwide Berkeley is up there in name recognition. Yale was always known in China (Yale had religious connections to the ministry there); also in India, since its founder Elihu Yale was a governor of Madras. In fact, in the 60s it was routine for Indian politicians to stop off at Yale for an honorary doctorate. Princeton has had almost no name recognition till the 90s. With its international relations school it has been gaining ground but primarily in the Middle East since it has hosted several area seminars. Columbia has had strong ties to Cambridge (faculty exchanges till the 70s) and a strong worldwide reputation. As early as the 30s, as one example, India's prominent untouchable leader, Ambedkar, turned down Cambridge to go to Columbia. Stanford had no reputation until the 80s. I agree about Caltech. Before it was renamed I think it was called the Throop Institute and no one knew of it. So I will delete it from my list. Duke has little recognition. Chicago has always been known in academic circles but only there.</p>
<p>So, it is Harvard, Cambridge, Yale, Berkeley, MIT, Columbia, Oxford, Cornell.</p>
<p>....He send, ending his opinion (in a sea of opinions) with a period, feigning finality.</p>
<p>In my experience, the "average" European only knows about Harvard, thinks Cambridge and Oxford are one and the same, has never heard of MIT, and knows that the local department store sells Columbia Sportswear sportswear.</p>
<p>Of course, all the people I know who have lived/done business in the U.S. know about all the universities that have been discussed in this thread (though not always Cornell).</p>
<p>zeugma, you are right about the average European. And in saying that you are revealing your narrowness. We are talking of worldwide reputation, only 300 million Europeans or so, the vast majority of the world currently lives in Asia. MIT and columbia and cornell are well known in China, India, the Middle East.</p>
<p>Overall, after allowing for regions of the world where one university may predominate and another may not be well known, my list stands.</p>
<p>I do not know of anyone who knows vaguely about Oxford and Cambridge who confuse the two. And no one outside the US associates Cambridge with Harvard; it is fashionable in some circles in the US to refer to Cambridge as in Cambridge, Mass.</p>
<p>From Australia and Japan, from Ghana to Brazil, from Russia to Madagascar, MIT is quite well known. 40 years ago, it was Koffi Annan's dream school, for heaven's sake.</p>
<p>now would you guys study East Asian Studies or Modern European Studies for an MA? Either degree I would pursue political and economic courses on Asia or Europe and gear my thesis on a topic in the political economy of either respective region. </p>
<p>I hear East Asian Studies is hot right now, but what about Europe? </p>
<p>Also, is Dartmouth well known at all outside of the US?</p>
<p>In regards to this question there is a big difference between what the average person on the street thinks and what an academic or executive knows. Most academics and top biz types will have heard of Columbia and will probably have a good favorable opinion of it. However, outside the US the average person on the street will have never heard of it... as mentioned if anything they'll think you're talking about a brand of sportswear. </p>
<p>As for people thinking Oxford and Cambridge are the same, I've never seen that. From my experience Oxford and Cambridge are the most recognized and "famous" universities in the world. Harvard is also certainly widely recognized, but in my experience outside the US it's not quite as universally recognized as Oxbridge (I'm talking on the whole here, not just with academics). </p>
<p>Does any of this really matter? No. If you have a degree from any of those universities then you're fine in the "prestige" department. Nobody's ever going to say "oh, you ONLY have a degree from Columbia" and if they do then their opinion probably doesn't matter much anyway.</p>
<p>Another simpler way to answer your question (or the same question for most US schools) is to think what would happen if you stopped 20 random people on the street in the US and asked them to name the top universities in the UK other than Oxford or Cambridge. How many average folks do you think would come up with schools like University College London, The London School of Economics and Political Science, Durham... not many. </p>
<p>The same thing would happen if you went outside North America and asked people to name top schools in the US other than Harvard...</p>
<p>no, it wouldn't.</p>
<p>and there are also significantly fewer top schools in the UK for people to be naming.</p>
<p>^^^You would certainly get a few schools but Columbia wouldn't be one of them. That doesn't mean Columbia's not a good school (it most certainly is) it just means that elsewhere in the world the average person hasn't heard of it. However, I don't think that matters much.</p>
<p>rocketman, the average man in India or china probably does not know what a university is, let alone the top ones. It would also be misleading to ask students aspiring to study at top universities since they may be swayed by misconceptions. Academics are too narrow a breed.</p>
<p>Let us go with the intelligentsia: the journalists, politicians, businessmen, The Rotary and Lions Club members, so to speak. They would all know the schools I listed.</p>
<p>uhh...Columbia has one of the best, perhaps the top East Asian departments in the country--Texassoccer, have you actually done your research or are you wasting your time worrying about international reputation?</p>
<p>Well why do you think I applied there? I was actually more concerned about the atmosphere there and how I hear the career service department isn't as helpful to grad students. If all of these rumors turn ot to be true, I was just going to leverage the Columbia name.</p>
<p>It would help if you told us what school you applied to. Grad school career centers are not all the same. Obviously CBS has amazing career services but others might not be on a par. </p>
<p>I'll break it down for you: Columbia is well-known in Asia, mainly because Asian culture loves prestige and people will define you by the school you went to. I was surprised by the number of Chinese friends who knew about it. By the way, they also know HYP, Stanford, Berkeley, Cornell. It amazes me that they don't know what Penn, Darmouth or Brown are, though. </p>
<p>Also, I'm in Europe right now and very surprised by how many people have heard about Columbia. I would estimate that about 50% of all college educated people have heard about it and the trend points upwards.</p>
<p>The degree will awarded through the GSAS (Graduate School of Arts and Sciences). </p>
<p>
[quote]
I'll break it down for you: Columbia is well-known in Asia, mainly because Asian culture loves prestige and people will define you by the school you went to. I was surprised by the number of Chinese friends who knew about it. By the way, they also know HYP, Stanford, Berkeley, Cornell. It amazes me that they don't know what Penn, Darmouth or Brown are, though.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>So atleast it carries weight in Asia. I am also surprised they haven't heard of Penn or Brown. Dartmouth I can understand considering its size.
Even though it's heard of in Asia, is it resepected in the same light as HYPS? </p>
<p>What surprises me even more is that Columbia is not as well known as HYP. Columbia has the most Nobel recipients of any American university, it's hosted a number of American and foreign diplomats and it's based in New York City of all places. </p>
<p>I am interested in working in Europe more than Asia. I really wanted to study Modern European Studies with a focus in it's regional political economy but I thought that it wouldn't have been as marketable as East Asia. I also take it though, from your post, that Columbia is bigger in Asia than Europe. </p>
<p>Which degree would serve me better for what I want to do (consulting, development, finance, foreign service)? Modern European Studies or East Asian Studies?</p>
<p>in asia, i think columbia is not considered on the same level as harvard and stanford, but it certainly carries the same, it not more, recognition as yale or princeton.</p>
<p>and if u wanna work in europe, you should do european studies? although seeing the list of things you want to do, it seems like asia will be a much more exciting place to work</p>
<p>look, the way I see it, if you're worried about international reputation with regards to job placement, it;s not worth working for a guy who hasn't heard of Columbia. If you're going to get an MA in the EALAC department or European studies department, you're probably better off getting job interviews through them rather than the career center unless you want a job in Finance or Consulting--because that's what they're best at.
Don't waste your time wondering whether Dartmouth or Columbia is better recognised--because the fact is, if you have the right credentials, it doesn't matter what school you went to.</p>
<p>good post cerebus. you're right. Columbia is very strong in both fields (probably more in East Asia then Europe, no?) and will give me ample opportunities through their respective departments alone. </p>
<p>Dartmouth seemed like it would've have been more of a personal initimate school where I would network a lot better with the profs and other faculty. It seemed like it would be a better place to make your mark. Columbia on the other hand is really strong in both of the fields I want to go into, but seems more impersonal and rather intimidating. It's also in an extremley expensive city and the tuition is fierce. To come out of with nothing in terms of connections made and networking would be devastating to my pocketbook. </p>
<p>But hey if NYU grads in a similar program are landing stints at JP Morgan and European Councils then I am sure Columbia would have an edge too. I guess my concerns are spurious and not as big as I made them out to be.</p>