Columbia's Movin' On Up!

Colleges and Universities A-Z Columbia University
81

<p>Let me address JohnnyK's line of posts here for a minute...

[quote]
Columbia has some significant challenges facing it in the mid- and long-term that Penn does not face, or at least faces to a much less severe degree...</p>

<p>-Location: NYC is my favorite city in the world, but it is only a matter of time until a major terrorist attack(s?) severely dampens the appeal of going to school there. Whether neocons continue the foreign policies that incite terrorists or democrats repeal the surveillance mechanisms that foil them, something bad will happen. Philadelphia, as another major US city and likely target, would also suffer from terror contagion of sorts, but not to the same degree

[/quote]

This is fearmongering to a ridiculous degree, a degree I hope sounds absurd to every other rational reader out there. You sound like Donald Rumsfeld. "I don't know where. I don't know when. But something TERRIBLE is going to happen." Yeah, be afraid, be very freaking afraid.</p>

<p>My aunt, jealous upon finding out I had been accepted to Columbia, made a similar comment immediately after September 11th - that applications would go down and the school's prestige would suffer. 5 years of strong incoming classes and skyrocketing applications later, if anything its brand is stronger in the market than in 2001.</p>

<p>Speculating about the possible results of a possible terrorist attack sometime in the future, and treating it as a foregone conclusion, is a logical fallacy. Secondly, the damage you claim would happen is empirically denied, as I mentioned above. NYC, and Columbia, are doing better.</p>

<p>Yeah, OK, if a nuclear bomb goes off on wall street, we're all farked. And if little green men from alpha centauri invade, we're pretty screwed as well. If you're planning your life around the worst case scenario, you're probably a hollow, quivering shell of a person. Columbians, and, I certainly hope, your fellow Penn students, are a bit more pragmatic.</p>

<p>Edit: and while I'm at it, how big of a toolbox do you have to be to say things like "Tread cautiously, Columbia, for you are treading on fragile ground indeed."? Could you take yourself any more seriously? For christ's sake, between this and comments like "Another follow-up attack would render [nyc] paralyzed", you sound like an absolute nutcase. Another follow-up attack? Put the video games down, buddy, and go play outside. Sorry, man, I gotta call it like it is.</p>

<p>
[quote]
-Campus cohesion. This should be fairly obvious. Manhattanville may be CU's best option, but it is by no means the same campus as Morningside. A single, beautiful, unified campus was a great asset of Columbia. M'ville will spell the end of one Columbia. Penn is fortunate enough to have adjacent space in which to expand.

[/quote]

This has been addressed better by others, but I just wanted to add - have you even been to Columbia? Do you have any clue of geography? The planned campus is already about as "adjacent" in its space as could be physically possible. The 4-block space between the top current end of campus and the planned area on 125th is already heavily occupied by housing for graduate students and other campus populations - we've already expanded, really, right to the brink of the planned area.</p>

<p>Stick to rhetoric; higher ed administration clearly isn't your strong suit. "Welcome to the carnival of ignoramuses" indeed.</p>

82

<p>The Ace is Back: I know that this is becoming a petty issue, but I stand by my point. The excellence of an institution does not always match its reputation, even for extensively long periods of time. </p>

<p>Take Seoul National University for example. It is an extreme academic powerhouse. Or how about India Institute of Technology? Both do not have nearly as much the reputation as HYP, but are academically on par. </p>

<p>Or if we're strictly talking about rankings, as "breaking the top three," we can even look at the small example of Princeton v. Harvard. Princeton is ranked higher in recent news, but still, the prestige of Harvard wins, and will always win. </p>

<p>My argument always stated that Columbia was an excellent instution. What I am saying is that the label of HYP will always stand as is. It doesn't matter if Harvard falls to 50th or Yale to 70th; "HYP" will always be "the big three."</p>

83

<p>Tami, it's a minor quibble, I realize, but in the business world, a degree from one of the better IITs is regarded as a very valuable qualification. It may not open the doors that Harvard does but it comes very close to that of MIT.</p>

<p>I also disagree with your premise that the status quo will continue forever. That premise has been said many times over history, and has almost always proven wrong (exception: definitely never wage war in russia during the winter). It's not destiny, and reputations change over time. And among the candidates to have reputation skyrocket, Columbia is in an enviable position. The question is, how can they get there?</p>

84

<p>I am dismayed but at the same time slightly pleased and more than a little amused that my own rhetoric has gotten you so worked up.</p>

<p>Planning for the worst-case scenario isn't paranoia, it's a sign of rationality. That the US will suffer another major terrorist attack in the future is not just the domain of Donald Rumsfeld, it is the opinion of just about anyone who studies national security.</p>

<p>"Hope for the best, but plan for the worst," as they say.</p>

<p>I'm sorry you don't share the same concern for the welfare of NYC that I do. I can only hope that you are indeed right and I am wrong. I assure you I would be much happier with a NYC that remained decidedly non-vaporized, even if it means continuing to put up with the likes of you.</p>

<p>Oh, and I've been to Columbia many a time. Almost went there, after all. And perhaps because the core campus is such a perfect blend of unified function, symmetry, and efficiency (it is without a doubt my favorite university campus in all the world) and the area between them is merely unremarkable urban cityscape that the barrier to the campuses becomes more of a psychological block than a physical one (and it is still a considerable distance)</p>

<p>But a picture is worth a thousand words as the old adage goes, so I will let people judge for themselves. Here is a map. It's roughly the same distance as walking from Butler to Central Park.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.morningside-heights.net/map1.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.morningside-heights.net/map1.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Not quite the same as a hike from John Jay to Fayerweather</p>

85

<p>Johnny K, you are a special Penn student with one MAJOR complex. Maybe you're used to feeling inferior since you're a CAS student, not a Wharton one.</p>

86

<p>I always did admire those who used ad hominem attacks. Why go for the logos when the ethos is so much easier?</p>

<p>Le sigh...</p>

87

<p>"My argument always stated that Columbia was an excellent instution. What I am saying is that the label of HYP will always stand as is. It doesn't matter if Harvard falls to 50th or Yale to 70th; "HYP" will always be "the big three.""</p>

<p>Nah, I think if they really dropped this much, many ppl would start to question the excellence of HYP. It'll probably never happen but I think you didn't get my point. I'm just saying that it's wrong to not even try to give Columbia the prestige it deserves. I also don't believe that Columbia will kick Pton from the #3 spot, but merely that it'll some day become the "Holy Four" instead of the "Holy Three". I still can't see what's wrong with progressive thinking and a desire to better things, but we won't reach an agreement, so let's just leave it here.</p>

88

<p>^^ The Fantastic Four! (Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Columbia)</p>

<p>If USNews doesn't push it beyond Duke and Penn especially this year with endowment growth and increased selectivity... the rankings lose whatever legitimacy it had left in my mind.</p>

89

<p>LOL, not a bad suggestion. And which character would be Columbia?</p>

90

<p>
[quote]
Whereas HPYW will literally open doors for you (I've actually seen a pair of doors open and a halo appear when someone said "Harvard"!), Columbia will not have that impact. Sorry.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>This is sadly true, unless one wants to grab an easy i-banking job straight out of CCE...though that's nothing special, considering kids at Penn or Brown can get the same. I loved my Columbia education...it's definitely among the best in the country when it comes to opening undergrads intellectually. What can compare to the Core + world class professors + amazing academic events that are only possible because of said professors and because of Columbia's location in NYC? But when it came time to launch a career, I knew I needed to get into a graduate school at H or Y for that "door opening" effect to truly take place.</p>

<p>On the other hand, Columbia's international prestige is insane. People's eyes bug out of their heads in Europe when I tell them I go there, and professors in Germany have asked me to help them get library access. Maybe that's why so many CC alums choose to work in NYC or abroad, where our brand name is held in highest regard.</p>

91

<p>"This is sadly true, unless one wants to grab an easy i-banking job straight out of CCE..." Easy?
Um... are you talking about FO? I thought it would be one of the most competitive industries, especially if you want a summer analyst internship, no?</p>

<p>"On the other hand, Columbia's international prestige is insane. People's eyes bug out of their heads in Europe when I tell them I go there, and professors in Germany have asked me to help them get library access. Maybe that's why so many CC alums choose to work in NYC or abroad, where our brand name is held in highest regard."
Really? Where in Germany was this? I've never noticed anyone who even knew what Columbia, Brown or Dartmouth is. Every Tom and Dick knows Harvard and Yale, some ppl have heard of Pton, but that's usually it.</p>

92

<p>Yes not many in the UK seem to have heard of Columbia or know anything about it.</p>

93

<p>Um... another good reason to leave the UK then, ^^.</p>

94

<p>I talked to people in Berlin, Hamburg, and Luebeck about Columbia, and all were impressed. The professors I mentioned who were desperate to get into the architecture library (Avery Library is the largest architectural library in the world) were on the faculty of TU-Berlin.</p>

<p>I also know people in Warsaw and Istanbul who have been impressed by Columbia. Of course, they may not know much about it in detail. One Turkish person told me that she knew Columbia was "one of the most famous universities in the world," and then asked if it had a medical school. </p>

<p>Where in the UK have people not heard about Columbia? Half the joggers in Kensington Gardens seemed to be wearing Columbia sweatshirts when I visited. London is one of the most active alumni associations; when Columbia launched its $4b capital campaign, the announcement was simulcast to large audiences there and in Hong Kong.</p>

<p>Don't forget that the presidents of Estonia and Georgia are Columbia alums (CC and Law, respectively). The Estonian president is attempting to retool the national curriculum to make it more like the Columbia Core.</p>

95

<p>Hm... maybe I'm just living in the dumb parts of Germany then. Strangely, none of my English teachers knew what the Ivy League is. They've heard about Oxford, in some cases Cambridge, Harvard and Yale. If even teachers have no clue, then I imagine that the average German citizen will probably only know Harvard. I guess the ppl you associated with are all well educated ppl, in fact the sort of ppl I should associate with more often, haha. As of right now, I'm just glad that I won't have to go to college in Germany.</p>

96

<p>At my school for instance, which is a major 'feeder' for Oxbridge and gets a good proportion into Harvard each year (about 5/10), many people were wondering what Columbia was, if it was the country Colombia etc. Harvard/Yale/Princeton and even Stanford are far more recognized, say that to pretty much anyone and they will know what you're talking about. I mean it seems to me a big drop between those four and Columbia's recognition over here. And those who recognize the name recognize it as some American university, without knowing anything about it at all, i.e. that it is bloody amazing, Ivy League, in New York etc. Maybe the good reception Columbia got from your experience was because academics will clearly be a lot more knowledgeable about these things?</p>

<p>On the other hand Columbia seems to have a much bigger reputation in China where I live.. then again this is just my experience, it may not be representative of the truth.</p>

<p>(And half the joggers in Kensington Gardens wearing Columbia sweatshirts?? Odd..)</p>

97

<p>Really? When I went back, the only names they knew were: Harvard, Yale, MIT, Berkeley and CalTech. Now talk about Asians and engineering, huh? I'm glad that at least my uncle had heard about Columbia, lol.</p>

98

<p>When you went back to China?</p>

<p>I got ticked off by a Chinese friend for considering reapplying for Harvard/Stanford having received my Columbia offer. My mum's heard of it, God knows how seeing as she was in the cultural revolution and did not receive higher education.. I think it could be more recognized because it is just so old, 5th oldest or something in the US. And they have a very strong East Asian Studies department, maybe that helps?</p>

99

<p>Kunming, Beijing, Shanghai, Chengdu just to name a few.</p>

100

<p>Yes I find this Asian-engineering phenomenon quite fascinating. Still it makes it easier for Asians to get into places like Harvard or Cambridge I suppose ;)</p>

<p>Plus engineering is probably quite a big earner? And suited to Chinese natural affinity towards hardcore maths and science.</p>

<p>I'm a half-breed mongrel myself and unfortunately did not inherit the innate mathematical genius of most of my Chinese peers.</p>