Comfortable Jewish population

Parents Forum
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<p>I remember a poster on a different thread noting this and then mournfully asking “So where do the dumb Jewish kids go to college?” For a kid without superstar stats, it’s not just a matter of thinking that any highly selective school will do. </p>

<p>Highly competitive universities may just about always have a large % of Jewish students and an active Jewish community to boot. Highly selective LACs are different. They may have that large %, but the level of activity can be far lower.</p>

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<p>“So where do the dumb Jewish kids go to college?”</p>

<p>LOL! My D must me posting on this forum without my knowledge, because she once asked me the exact same thing.</p>

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<p>the whole israel/palestinian issue can be very difficult. one can’t assume that Jewish = pro-israel which really can complicate things for someone for whom this is an important issue. </p>

<p>one school that on paper seemed to have a great Jewish community came off one of my kid’s list when a visit revealed that there was very strong pro-palestinain/anti-israel sentiment within the jewish organization on campus – in fact the student we spoke with cited it as a reason they chose not to affiliate with hillel (this was a number of years ago, and the population of the jewish community at the school has supposedly since changed, so i won’t mention the name of the school). and even at schools without such an extreme, i don’t think it unusual to find Jewish students who question israel’s policies and are sympathetic to the palestinians.</p>

<p>again. as slitheytove noted, the issue is what a given student feels comfortable with – how pro-israel, or perhaps more “balanced” a view, they feel comfortable with. my kids asked about this at every school we visited – answers ranged from “don’t worry, there’s strong israel support,” to “both sides respect each other”, to “don’t worry, the students here are too politically apathetic to care,” to the example i gave previously where even the Jewish group on campus was anti-Israel.</p>

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<p>I’ve been college shopping with 2 kids, so far. It’s hard to tell what kind of Jewish life there is on campus from looking at the Jewish population number. What they both wanted was a place where there will be people with whom they can form a Jewish community - meaning, (FOR THEM) people you can count on to spend shabat with. This ended up being a bright marker of acceptable/unacceptable places <em>for them</em>. As noted above, people are looking for different things. Mine are happy to eat at Hillel, or to eat vegetarian in non-kosher dining halls. They are fine with Orthodox services, or with traditional egalitarian. It’s important to them that the services be student-organized and led, so not Chabad.</p>

<p>Also, they wanted to find these things at their school, not in the surrounding community (which might be fine for other kids with other requirements).</p>

<p>Requirements like theirs were satisfied at a wide range of schools, from LACs (altho rarely) to top-50’s (but not all of them) to big state schools. There were also places with over 10% Jewish pop. that did not have anything close. I found it hard to get real insight into this stuff via e-mail from Hillel staff people.</p>

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<p>Oh yes. More factors than just the number of other Jewish students for “comfort/acceptance” –</p>

<p>Jewish studies courses/ majors/departments; also study course catalogue in Religion, Sociology and History Departments </p>

<p>Quirky discoveries – such as the presence of an oncampus independent Jewish organization or agency. The example I know best is S-2’s medium-size Chapman U. Founded/affiliated with Disciples of Christ, Chapman has 10% Jewish population. It also happens to house the independent Holocaust Resource Center. Students can take an academic minor in Holocaust Studies. The HRC holds very stimulating speakers/programs/art exhibits on campus (Daniel Pearl’s father, the founder of the National Yiddish Book Center) which attract students, faculty and community. Seeing nonJewish people explore Jewish topics is a form of feeling accepted, too.</p>

<p>I always recommend a look-see at the Interfaith Center to see if there’s a visiting, shared or resident rabbi. Find out if they’re available to counsel students who request. If you pop in and find a minister or priest in the office at the time, ask away; s/he will know how Jewish students at that campus can find a rabbi for counsel/info/guidance as needed over a 4-year period. </p>

<p>In some schools, the form of Hillel service offered morphs with the elected student leadership of that year. S-1 missed his Reform services (his LAC Hillel offered only Conservative services by preference of the student leadership, and to change that would have meant pushing to change elected officers, not his priority.) Instead, he ate the meal on his own campus Hillel and sometimes travelled to a nearby university Hillel that always offered a choice between Reform and Conservative Shabbat services. He didn’t know any students at the university, so that was the trade-off. </p>

<p>D’s rural Midwest LAC with 30% Jewish population (Oberlin) had a traditionalist resident rabbi dedicated to pluralism. He structured Hillel to provide student-led Shabbat services that rotated weekly by denomination. Students could choose a week for their home comfort zone or come weekly to learn new approaches while in college.</p>

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<p>re: post 27 & 32:
Ahhh… I see. Poster is not jewish! Thanks, Pizzagirl.</p>

<p>While neither of my 's are very active in practicing their faith, the issue of feeling comfortable is key, as many have eloquently said here. Younger s was initially concerned about the large jewish population at his school, so purposely selected a non-jewish roommate. I applaud him for that, as he feels comfortable in the jewish and non-jewish community (his then gf wasn’t jewish). While I agree that pure numbers doesn’t necessarily mean a tight knit comunity, there are, de facto, just more jewish kids around that make it easy to meet in class, on a team or in a club, in class, at the dining hall, etc.</p>

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<p>Um…i think it was me who asked about “where do dumb Jewish kids go to college?”…based on my daughter’s question…
I think that unbelievablem got it right…#3, #5 for us along with PRJ’s addition…</p>

<p>great thread though…definitely needs to be an issue for the kid who doesn’t fit into the selective top 20 mold…</p>

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<p>paying3tuitions makes an important point about finding services that “fit”, if that is important to the student. we visited one Midwestern LAC on a Friday, contacted the Jewish student group ahead of time, and attended Shabbat services. D felt right at home - it was “just like camp” ;)</p>

<p>she ultimately chose to go to Brandeis and even there, she felt a little bit like Goldilocks at first - one service was “too Reform” (i.e., there was no Hebrew), another “too Conservative” (i.e., unfamiliar and no English). she finally found her place and her people.</p>

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<p>Rodney – I wonder if this earlier (buried) point help address the needs you and Queen’s Mom expressed:</p>

<p>30%: At this point, students of all faiths/backgrounds comment that their school has “lots of Jews” and they can find a wider range of opinions on every topic, religious to political, as well as peers/partners
without difficulty if that’s what they seek. Examples: All Ivies except Dartmouth; many top LAC’s (liberal arts colleges); a wide range of public and private colleges/unis located near metropolitan centers…</p>

<p>I think in the case of students who have been busy as bees getting B’s, perhaps then the issue of location/proximity to larger Jewish populated cities might be most relevant. For example, a student at Goucher, Towson or UMd has Baltimore and D.C. as a major source for students. As well, some students might go off-campus independently to make a path with existing groups/organizations/synagogues/cafes etc. if the oncampus Jewish offerings don’t fully satisfy. </p>

<p>I think I’d be more likely to send a B student to any college near Chicago, LA, Houston or NYC than situate them near Omaha. The schools that draw most students from their own nearby region and not nationally would reflect that region’s demography more. Exceptions abound, but I’m just thinking here.</p>

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<p>^^ definitely makes sense…</p>

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<p>Actually Omaha has a pretty decently sized Jewish population - it’s where my husband’s father’s family comes from! [Jews</a> and Judaism in Omaha, Nebraska - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews_and_Judaism_in_Omaha,_Nebraska]Jews”>History of the Jews in Omaha, Nebraska - Wikipedia) :)</p>

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<p>I found this map of the distribution of Jews in the US on Wiki, and found it interesting. [File:Jews-usa-county.jpg</a> - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Jews-usa-county.jpg]File:Jews-usa-county.jpg”>File:Jews-usa-county.jpg - Wikipedia) Makes sense that, in part, the number of NE schools with large population of Jewish students is higher partly because the percentage/concentration of Jews in general is higher in the NE.<br>
This thread might be a helpful read for the OP <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/785727-need-help-finding-right-college-w-good-jewish-population.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/785727-need-help-finding-right-college-w-good-jewish-population.html&lt;/a&gt; I think all the schools listed by the OP (though I am not sure about James Madison) will meet the needs of her child. I have several friends and a relative with kids at U Delaware. They are quite comfortable with the Jewish population and culture.</p>

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<p>“I think I’d be more likely to send a B student to any college near Chicago, LA, Houston or NYC than situate them near Omaha.”</p>

<p>Omaha might be just what the doctor ordered if their only other options were Wheaton, Biola, Houston Baptist or Nyack College.</p>

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<p>Well, I think it was kind of understood that Wheaton et al were off the table :-).</p>

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<p>^^ Right. Wheaton is kind of a tough nut to crack for B students.</p>

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<p>I’ll state here that we are a VERY non-observant family, and we are not looking for Jewish in-laws, so kids did not take this question into account when choosing colleges.</p>

<p>I thought I’d report amusing anecdotal experiences.</p>

<p>D just graduated from Barnard. She has never been around so many Jewish people in her life. She took a course from the Human Rights department on Women and Religion and discovered, to her shock, that she liked Judaism best.</p>

<p>She had never been in an environment in which people could tell she was Jewish just from her looks, but the very observant, Orthodox Columbia boys certainly could. Maybe it’s her piles and piles of pre-Raphaelite hair.</p>

<p>She did get tired of being pursued, so she began to wear short shirts as a discouragement.</p>

<p>On the other hand, she really liked the JTS dorms (Jewish Theological Seminary attached to Columbia) and hung out there all the time. She dated a boy there frosh year (they’re Conservative, not Orthodox) and made a gal pal who is now her best friend.</p>

<p>Since she was in NYC we had relatives there who asked her to Rosh Hashannah dinner every year as well as a seder. This is more than I do at home.</p>

<p>Bottom line: She cemented her Jewish identity, felt very comfortable and went off to Atlanta to move in with her boyfriend who is not Jewish. All fine with me.</p>

<p>S attends Williams. He got dragged to Friday night dinners with an entry made (a lovely young woman) who did not want to go alone. Would never go on his own. Found many non-observant Jewish kids like him, mostly from NYC and LA. College prez, who was Jewish, invited all the kids to his house to break the fast on Yom Kippur. New college prez is also Jewish but doesn’t seem as extroverted.</p>

<p>Bottom line: Also very comfortable with himself. Associates easily with the Jewish kids on campus. It’s a sophisticated environment with a sizable portion of kids form NY and LA with knowledge of Jewish culture, even if they’re not Jewish themselves. Is dating a girl who is half-Jewish who wanted a Jewish boyfriend (father is Jewish.)</p>

<p>Neither thought about this, but I guess I am underscoring the idea that any school that draws heavily from the NY metro area is going to end up with an environment that is comfortable for Jewish kids. The issue of worship is something else if kids have specific needs. But that has admirably addressed by Paying3tuitions who is a bit of an expert on these issues.</p>

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<p>^^^ LOL at being the master (or should I say mistress) of the understatement, mythmom. Describing p3t as a “bit of an expert on these issues” is like saying the Grand Canyon is a hole in the ground :D</p>

<p>BTW, this is a compliment to both of you.</p>

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<p>I know Jewish students who attend Delaware, Towson and JMU. Delaware and Towson both have solid Jewish life on campus. Delaware’s Hillel offers a pre-orientation program that is very popular. The Jewish students I know are very happy at JMU, Jewish activities are limited. One girl I know felt uncomfortable missing class on Yom Kippur. They do offer a Birthright trip, however.</p>

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<p>In my family, over the past 15 years or so, a number of the Jewish kids who were not at all dumb but were not Harvard sweepstakes players have happily gone to the University of Vermont. They felt very comfortable there, as Jews and as whatever else they were. So much so that a number of them have settled in Burlington – I have a bunch of relatives there, now, some of whom are active in the Jewish community there, and some of whom aren’t. I’ve never visited them there, but I know they love it.</p>

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<p>Dumb is a relative term. D uses it to mean (in the college context) anyone who does not have straight As and SATs over 2100. This subset includes herself, of course. Now in ordinary terms, she is far from dumb. Actually, even in college search terms, she is not so dumb. Almost all of the schools on her list (including some that are safeties) are in the 2 USNWR top 50 lists (LACs and National Unis).</p>