Coming out of hibernation...

Prep School Admissions
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<p>Hey everyone!</p>

<p>I took a break from public posting for Lent, but have been ruminating on the following post M10 questions/issues.... </p>

<p>What was up with the multiple “M10 results” threads?
While I wasn’t posting over Lent, I was popping in occasionally to see if any interesting threads developed. I was looking forward to checking a single results thread, as has materialized somewhat organically over the past few app cycles. Instead, this year, I saw chaos.</p>

<p>Going forward (and I guess we’ll be part of next app cycle with SevenDaughter MkII) I think people should pick up the format of this thread (<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/prep-school-admissions/1299461-official-list-2012-acceptances.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/prep-school-admissions/1299461-official-list-2012-acceptances.html&lt;/a&gt;) no earlier than M6 or 7. This will prevent the premature threads that get 3 pages of posts before any results come in.</p>

<p>I also think some folks were a little overboard in what sorts of info they asked people to share early on…stats, etc. Having been a witness (and participant) to this particular rodeo before, the separate “stats” thread (post A10) seems to work best when kept separate. Here is the one from 2012: <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/prep-school-admissions/1300729-2012-clean-official-boarding-decisions-applicant-stats-ecs.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/prep-school-admissions/1300729-2012-clean-official-boarding-decisions-applicant-stats-ecs.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Why don’t people take the “It’s really hard to get into the more selective/more ‘famous’ schools and if you are intent on going to boarding school you should probably apply to one ore more hidden gems.” message seriously?
As usual, many dashed dreams on 3/10/13. And what appeared to be varying degrees of surprise.</p>

<p>I realize that I have turned into a broken record with respect to this topic, but how many times do I (and many other parents with kids in or already graduated from schools) have to post about how competitive the BS scene is before people get the point?</p>

<p>Maybe people have to get the cold water splash themselves to really understand?</p>

<p>I hate to keep using my older daughter as an example, but again: She was one question away from a perfect score on the SSAT, and according to the Duke TiP charts (based on 7th grade SAT scores) is in the top 0.5% of all US kids her grade...that’s the top half of the top 1%, not top 5%. With good (not great) ECs and honor roll grades to boot. Great interviewer, extremely comfortable talking to adults.</p>

<p>Yet she was flat out rejected by Choate two cycles ago. If she can get rejected, you/your child can get rejected. And if you apply EXCLUSIVELY to schools with acceptance rates as low as Choate’s (and lower!), you may find you have zero choices on March 10.</p>

<p>I know that some families have a “go big or stay home” approach, and that’s all fine and good (though not our particular philosophy). I will only add that at SAS (which many consider “second tier”), where my daughter is happily finishing up her sophomore year after choosing the school over SPS on 4/10/11, she is academically challenged and certainly not cruising to easy As in all her classes.</p>

<p>For people who look more toward college matrics as the measure of a BS’s “quality”, I can only say that I think most kids who get into Ivies these days would be able to do so from any school, even their local public school.</p>

<p>Why did people apply to schools to which they had little interest in attending?
I saw at least one “I got WL’d at Exoverhotch Hall, but I did get into Secondtier Academy…but I don’t really want to go to SA…what should I do?” type post in the wake of M10.</p>

<p>My only point here is “Why did you even apply to a school you weren’t that into?” I know things can change…especially after revisits or if you sent in a application before your visit/interview. But other than that, applying to schools you don’t want to attend is a waste of your time, and that of the people who have to process and read your application.</p>

<p>Why are people wondering about dress codes AFTER they were admitted?
This is another puzzling thing for me to fuss about after you’ve applied. If you can’t abide by a school’s dress code (and don’t get me started on that), then why did you apply? The school wasn’t going to change its rules for you. And don’t fool yourself, unless you are in that very small percentage of truly unique/eclectic/follow-my-own-tune group of individuals, you too are just wearing some sort of uniform.</p>

<p>Uggs? Uniform. Abercombie? Uniform. Busted Converses? Uniform. Flip-flops? Uniform. Body con skirts/dresses? Uniform. Colored hair? Uniform.</p>

<p>A FINAL WORD TO PEOPLE (ESPECIALLY PARENTS) GOING TO REVISITS THIS WEEK:
As tempted as you may be to ask, DO NOT ask seniors where they got in/are going to college. Some folks may not have received the news they wanted recently and your question just rubs salt in the wound. Resist. Resist. Resist. Ask the administrators or underclassmen what the vibe is...not the seniors.</p>

<p>Happy Easter. Running out to church now in my Easter “uniform”.</p>

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<p>Oh, and for all you “Thrift Shop” fans…I am really digging this Macklemore song right now:
[MACKLEMORE</a> & RYAN LEWIS - SAME LOVE feat. MARY LAMBERT (OFFICIAL VIDEO) - YouTube](<a href=“MACKLEMORE & RYAN LEWIS - SAME LOVE feat. MARY LAMBERT (OFFICIAL VIDEO) - YouTube”>MACKLEMORE & RYAN LEWIS - SAME LOVE feat. MARY LAMBERT (OFFICIAL VIDEO) - YouTube)</p>

<p>Which I first heard via this NPR video (Parental Warning: Contains strong language/content):
[Macklemore</a> & Ryan Lewis: NPR Music Tiny Desk Concert - YouTube](<a href=“Macklemore & Ryan Lewis: NPR Music Tiny Desk Concert - YouTube”>Macklemore & Ryan Lewis: NPR Music Tiny Desk Concert - YouTube)</p>

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<p>I think I can answer your third question. I was very interested in one school before I applied and during my tour, but at the interviews, which were much later, I got a chance to ask quite a lot of questions. And there were answers that put me off a little. This may well be that same for a lot of people who only get to see the school in the middle of the application process.
Another possible answer is that on its own, they would want to attend the ‘second tier’ school, but in comparison to another that they may possibly be able to attend, it doesn’t look so great any more. They may just be thinking that they’d prefer a low chance at a higher regarded school than deifnite entry at a slightly lower one. Which is a really bad way to think about it.</p>

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<p>@SevenDad: I have posted twice now in the “what to wear to re-visit day” thread. BOTH indicated that the dress code(s) are a requirement at most schools. Like you, I am surprised by how many kids are either unaware of the dress code, or plan to ignore it all together on re-visit day. I have cautioned them that if they cannot live with the dress code for ONE day, how will they manage it for the entire school year?</p>

<p>Besides, how hard could it be to at least wear khakis (girls and boys)… they even have brightly colored ones if beige is too “out”. Ugh… I reminded them that they might be the only kids wearing jeans and so would stand out quite a bit! Bravo to the rest of your comments. Welcome back!</p>

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<p>Finally! SevenDad is back to bring order to the universe. Welcome back! Kids, watch out.</p>

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<p>Yeah! Welcome back SevenDad. You were sorely missed.</p>

<p>I wanted to add:</p>

<p>Stop looking at boarding schools as the path to IVY’s. The statistics on school pages mean virtually nothing to your specific application.</p>

<p>In some cases those students had connections, or were selected by the BS specifically because they had a certain profile coming in. This year I’m seeing the same pattern of rejections at the college level as with the boarding school level - the student who chose “go big or go home” are getting rejected in droves. Ones who chose “safeties” they weren’t passionate about are getting rejected from those too. Adcoms - with increasingly large pools of applicants to choose from - are getting good at discerning who is a “fit” for their needs AND who is passionate about them."</p>

<p>But worse - many good, well qualified students, are getting rejected simply due to space. One of my D’s colleges just sent out 42,000 rejection notices to qualified candidates. </p>

<p>Apply to boarding schools because it will provide you with an enhanced academic, social and cultural experience. If you are destined to be a CEO, Artist, Politician, Nobel Prize winner it doesn’t matter what school you go to. Just what you do with the resources while you are there.</p>

<p>** Students - stop sending PM’s to adults asking for advice on what to wear, what our experiences were like at school, etc.**
First - it’s not wise (or safe) for students to contact adults they don’t know outside of a public forum. Second, my personal inbox gets flooded from students who literally ask multiple questions (what to wear, comparing different schools, what the food is like, why I chose the school) and end with “please be as detailed as possible.” Really? </p>

<p>We’re adults, with children of our own, jobs and outside interests. Posting here is a volunteer gig. We’re happy to help but are NOT a personal concierge.</p>

<p>Parent inquiries - (short) are fine. But note - if it takes five separate messages to fit the entire list of questions - please edit until it’s one short paragraph I can digest.</p>

<p>And lastly - If you are declined from a boarding school it is NOT personal. It is not because some URM got your spot. Or that you’re an ORM. Or that a hooked legacy jock got it. </p>

<p>It’s because the schools are building a class, looking for specific things in the pile that you can’t control. But I’ll say this - especially for college - if you spend all your life trying to build a resume to “get into” a boarding school or college, you WILL miss the boat. You WILL look like the thousands of others in the pile. AND you will most LIKELY be declined. Because admissions isn’t always about WHAT you did. It’s about WHY you did it and what it means to you as a person. Quality, not quantity.</p>

<p>Trust me - learn these lessons now because I just went through the college cycle with D and her peers (locally and at BS) and this is good preparation for the treadmill to come.</p>

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<p>Welcome back,</p>

<p>May I give a give a HIGH FIVE on the not asking about college acceptances. As a parent oi a kid going though this right NOW. Many decisions come out April 1 and the stresses are greater than ever. My d has heard positively from almost half of her schools, but she is also very concerned about her classmates. The students become very close, thus if your good friend is sad by a deny then it is felt by many others; their share in their happiness but also share in their pain. </p>

<p>I think the better question is…“If you had more than one choice of bs to attend, why did you choose this school?”</p>

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<p>@Exie: Literally LOL on some of your comments/observations. I personally don’t mind answering long lists of questions from parents…especially if they are about SAS! But I can’t tell you the number of times I have typed some variant of “Well, I don’ t see BS as a means to an end/Ivy, and while all the ‘brand name’ schools are great, we went a different route.”…</p>

<p>@Alexz825Mom: Good to see you back on here as well after a hiatus!</p>

<p>I confess to being one of those parents who asked about colleges at the revisit. I think some parent (I forget who) on CC made me aware that it might not be the best question to ask the seniors…just paying that forward.</p>

<p>Two more thoughts for re-visitors:</p>

<ul>
<li>Grab a copy of the student paper</li>
<li>Chat with the other prospective parents…your kid could be going to school with their kids, and guess where those kids probably got a lot of their values/identity from?</li>
</ul>

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<p>Welcome back!
Thank you for bringing CC to senses.</p>

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<p>@SevenDad: two quick comments.

I believe more people than you realize do get it. Although they “act like” they are surprised or hurt on March 10, most of them do know when they only apply to 2 or 3 most competitive schools chances of getting no admission was high. They do so anyway often times because they have a backup plan, which is a local option. Just ask yourself why your D only applied to 3 schools, as even a strong candidate as she took a huge risk by applying only 3 schools (the hidden gem on your list although not as selective was small and therefore doesn’t admit many every year). On the other hand, for the sake of argument, it seems your daughter’s case is not convincing enough to make your point. There are kids with decent stats who applied to 10+ schools and got rejected or waitlisted everywhere. On the other hand, I know more than a couple kids who applied only to one school and got in. </p>

<p>

I know you said “I think” and you said “most kids” in this statement, so I am not arguing what you said was wrong. But I want to offer a different perspective. Having just gone through the college application process, I have had first-hand experience on how college counseling at DC’s school could help and make things happen. It’s true that the kid has to be the “material” but “material” doesn’t always translate to solid product. The school does indeed make a difference. I know when you just consider the top 5 colleges with single digit admit rate, the difference is hard to tell as one has to be a very strong candidate anywhere to begin with to be in the game. However, when it comes to other top schools, the top schools’ advantages are clearly there. That’s my experience and belief anyway.</p>

<p>Hope I have not offended you, SevenDad. Welcome back.</p>

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<p>@Alden0611: No worries. No offense taken.</p>

<p>Regarding my older daughter…we did have a strong backup in our local day school, so could afford to get all rejections and still have a good option. I guess my point in using my daughter as an example is manifold: A) To show that a kid with stellar stats can get rejected, so really think about your kid’s relative strengths and weaknesses…I use the SSAT and Duke TiP because those are national pools (vs. the overly optimistic POV of a proud parent); B) Really consider the mix of schools to which you are applying and the suitability/fit of your child for each school…while I know I make some very broad assumptions in saying this, I do think that many people go with “the big names” because they believe that these schools are the “best” instead of thinking what schools might be “the best for me/my kid”. I do realize that there are plenty of kids who go wide and still come up empty as well as kids who apply to 1 and get in. Likewise there are some kids who only apply to the most selective and still get in everywhere (CKSABS’…sp? kids are just one example); C) To show that you don’t have to go to a “HADES” school to be challenged, even if you are an extremely bright kid.</p>

<p>It would take me some effort to find the exact threads, but in this year’s app cycle I recall seeing a few parents reflect upon just how naive they were about the selectivity of the “top” schools. I guess one goal I have in my ongoing participation on this forum is to reduce that level of naivet</p>

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<p>SevenDad, some parents just can’t help themselves. No matter how many times you (and others)'explain how competitive it is, many parents just insist on thinking that their little darling is smarter and more accomplished than everyone else, and an admission’s officer just can’t fail to see that. It’s like the statistics about how many high school valedictorians or kids with perfect SAT SOS get rejected from Harvard. People “hear” that but they don’t really believe it until - surprise, surprise - it happens to their kid.</p>

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<p>Alden6011- that was our experience with prep school college counseling too ;-)</p>

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<p>Sevendad, I don’t want to linger on this topic too long, but I want to point out two things before I leave it. First, do you know how many valedictorians graduate each year? Just because your public school’s valedictorian always goes to a top 5 doesn’t mean a valedictorian would in any public school. On the other hand, the valedictorian in your daughter’s BS and one of the top students in some other top BS are almost guaranteed to be admitted to a top 5 if they want to. That’s the difference when it comes to top 5. BUT, “don’t so many prospective students/parents think that Andover is their ticket to Harvard?” Really, in this day and age? I think that’s an exaggeration. I believe more and more families realize Andover or the like is the way to achieve a best high school education plus a great college destination. In my experience and if I can speak for Baystate, it’s our experience that top BS is the closest ideal place for such a goal.</p>

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<p>@baystateresident: Don’t get me wrong, I think the SAS college counseling is going to be leagues better than our LPS…based on reports from friends with kids in the LPS and our experience with SAS already (they don’t really get started until Junior year at SAS). I do believe that is part of what you are paying for at BS.</p>

<p>But keep in mind that what I am reacting to are the numerous newbies who come on here thinking that Lawrenceville is a “feeder” for Princeton or that Choate is a “feeder” to Yale. Sure, a very high percentage of their seniors go to these schools, but again, I’d argue that these kids would be good candidates out of their LPS.</p>

<p>@Alden0611: How many prospective parents come on the forum wondering if Andover will be their child’s ticket to Williams? I’ll try to keep track next year. It’s certainly less than those who mention HYP+MS.</p>

<p>Again, don’t get me wrong, I’m PRO BS. And I’m PRO BS College Counseling. And I realize that not everyone has an LPS that sends kids to ultra selective colleges. As they say YMMV!</p>

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<p>All the above, welcome back and thanks for the videos!</p>

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<p>Alden is right- there are public schools and there are public schools! Not one student from our LPS has ever been admitted to Yale, not once, not ever. Choate sends 8-10 every year, and some of those students were lucky enough to be rescued out of their bad public schools after middle school. I think that most boarding school parents are pretty savvy these days and realize that the whole college admissions scene has changed drastically in the last 20 years…there are no guarantees any more. I think a bigger myth is that it’s easier to get into college from the top of your public school. Ours are lucky to get into the honors program at our state flagship…</p>

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<p>@baystateresident: I definitely think this is a “your mileage may vary” situation…which I’m sure makes my sweeping generalizations sound all the more silly/false.</p>

<p>As for BS parents being savvy…in my posts I’m referring to parents just applying to BS, who may NOT be as savvy. Will be interesting to see how many of the next crop of newbie kids/parents will be HYP+MS-centric.</p>

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<p>@sevendad: It’s one thing to be “HYP+MS-centric” because of the false belief that since my 8th grader DC is so talented that they should shoot for and is “entitled” to succeed in getting a top 5. It’s another to think a top BS is the ticket to Harvard. There’s a difference there isn’t there? I do believe some parents are Ivy driven, but I don’t believe as many nowadays are naive enough to believe attendign a top BS would be THE path to a top 5. The admit rate for regular round applicants at these school is < 5% this year. How could one expect anyone’s chance to be significantly higher just by going to a certain school? It would certainly take more than just the school. That said, I don’t think it’s right either to say if you are the “material” you’d get in your dream school anywhere you are. That assumption underestimates the effects of college counseling at some best private schools, and the trust in <em>quality</em> built between these colleges and those top schools over time.</p>

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<p>When I look at boarding schools, I don’t think about selectivity, rank, “top tier”, brand, or prestige. If you’ve actually gone to BS, or go to one you wouldn’t think about it either. I think when parents/students focus solely on the usual suspects, they’re truly missing the point of a secondary school education- and a wonderful opportunity to explore many other exceptional schools.</p>

<p>Look- I’m not an expert, but I am a third generation BS alum married to a second generation BS alum. Our large extended family covers a lot of schools- we have our fair share of legacies, but many have blazed their own trails. In all my years I’ve never heard anyone say Deerfield is better than Pomfret, Andover is better than Taft, or Groton is better than Berkshire. If we were all gathered in the same room and someone said something like that- the record would screech, glass would break and all you’d hear is crickets.</p>

<p>I don’t wish to romanticize BS, but many of us found out who we were during those years (due to large amounts of adversity)- way before we entered college. Those experiences and school ties last a lifetime, so maybe it’s a good idea to focus on the experience you want your child to have instead of hyper-focusing on what you or others preceive as “the best”. There is no “best.”</p>