Commisserate here: Rejections...HS Class of 2008

College Majors Musical Theater Major
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<p>NODad,</p>

<p>As a Mom whose D attends OCU, I wuld also recommend you either call or email OCU and express your concerns to them directly. Obviously, we did not get a rejection from OCU but we did from others. Frankly, they were all very generic...and all sounded the same to my D. </p>

<p>As your D attended OCU in the past, and you are aware of the type of folks who are there, I think that they would want to hear your concerns. I have never had anything other than pleasant exchanges with them myself. That doesn't help your situation, but perhaps you can help someone in the future.</p>

<p>Good luck on better results elsewhere-
MikksMom</p>

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<p>This was in the Washington Post back in May. It talks about how colleges today try to more carefully word their, um, rejections. Apparently, our kidlets are more sensitive than those in generations past. Apologies to the Post: I tried to post the link, but my computer refused to copy. So I am hoping this comes under "fair use" ...</p>

<p>At First They Flirt, Then Colleges Crush
Rejection Rough on Students and Schools
By Susan Kinzie
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, May 1, 2007; B01</p>

<p>Yale University sent out thousands of rejection letters this spring that included this line:</p>

<p>"It is painful to us that we must turn away so many superbly talented students."</p>

<p>Brown University wrote: "We want to acknowledge your accomplishments and to reiterate how much care we have taken in the admission process . . . and how difficult and painful it therefore is to deny so many."</p>

<p>Painful? Just ask Tanvi Gupta, a 17-year-old from Derwood who got five rejection letters this month, from the five colleges she wanted to go to.</p>

<p>For many overachieving high school seniors, getting that letter is the first real kick-in-the-gut feeling of failure. And for admissions officers who have spent months recruiting the most talented students, April can be like a bad breakup -- played out thousands of times. It ends today, the deadline for most students to commit to colleges.</p>

<p>This year, the most selective universities sent out more rejection letters than ever: Georgetown sent about 10,000; Stanford sent about 20,000. Johns Hopkins sent about a thousand more than last year, when they sent at least 2,000 more than the year before.</p>

<p>All the more reason for school officials to choose their words carefully when they turn away all those applicants. Many said: There's really just no good way to say no.</p>

<p>It's not unlike the end of a high school romance, said Bill Conley, dean of enrollment and academic services at Hopkins. "That's the dance we're doing in admissions. We don't think we've made promises -- we haven't. But . . . they're hopeful. We've nurtured this relationship, only to abruptly end it."</p>

<p>He laughed, remembering his own thinking in high school: "Do I just do the fade? Never communicate again? Or do I just be very direct: 'I don't like you anymore.' "</p>

<p>The middle ground, Conley said, is, " 'It's not you; it's me.' "</p>

<p>That's the approach many schools take now, starting the letters or e-mails with statistics about the huge, record-setting crush of applications they get. It used to be that schools were essentially turning away students who they thought couldn't hack it there, said Barmak Nassirian of the American Association of Collegiate Registrars and Admissions Officers.</p>

<p>But in recent years, the number of applications has surged for several reasons: There are more high school seniors out there. More of them are applying to college, seeing it as increasingly essential to their careers. And they're applying to more schools.</p>

<p>Now it's almost the luck of the draw, Nassirian said. He also said perhaps half the people denied from the top schools would, if admitted, graduate cum laude.</p>

<p>It's not easy to say no, said Richard Shaw, dean of admission and financial aid at Stanford. "We just want to be gentle." The key, he said, "is to tell students that they're wonderful. Because they are."</p>

<p>"We all probably labor more over the letters with bad news," said Jim Miller, dean of admission at Brown, "than the letters with good news." It's a hard thing to do well, he said, so they keep tweaking.</p>

<p>The long-standing Hopkins denial letter was deemed a bit too abrupt and unkind, Conley said. Many schools have had a fairly terse "we-regret-to-inform-you" style. But Conley said Hopkins officials had also heard from colleagues at schools that had switched "from a Jack Webb, 'Just-the-facts-ma'am' letter to a kindler, gentler approach."</p>

<p>So kind, in fact, that people were calling to ask: Did I get in or not?</p>

<p>Conley said he thinks admissions officers have gotten swept up with the self-esteem movement, too. "These kids have been nurtured. Even if their team finishes eighth in the soccer league, they still get a trophy."</p>

<p>So Hopkins took the middle ground, by softening the overall tone of the letter but keeping the introduction direct: "We are unable to offer you a place in the Class of 2010."</p>

<p>Many admissions officers said it's key -- just as with any relationship ending -- to be clear that this is a final decision. Because every year, some students just can't let go and keep calling, keep asking why it's over.</p>

<p>And in the end? Even after all those rejection letters, things have a way of working out. Every fall, UCLA does a national survey of freshmen.</p>

<p>Most of them say they're at their first choice college.</p>

<hr>

<p>This spring, Tanvi was in agony. It felt like the final moment of her 12 years of education, she said, the ultimate test of all her hard work.</p>

<p>When the envelopes came from Harvard, from Brown, from Johns Hopkins, from MIT and from the University of Pennsylvania, Tanvi called her parents over to see. Each time, she took the letter to the Hindu shrine in her family's house and thought, "Please let this be a 'yes.' "</p>

<p>"Then," she said, "crash."</p>

<p>Tanvi especially disliked the letters that eased into the bad news, because as she was reading paragraphs about how many exceptionally qualified applicants had applied, blah, blah, she was thinking, " 'Oh, maybe I have a chance.' "</p>

<p>Also annoying, she said: the endings, which she summarized in a syrupy voice as, " 'Don't get discouraged; we know you'll have success at other places.' . . . They make it seem like, 'Oh, it's not a big deal you didn't get in.' But they know you're crushed."</p>

<p>Like so many other students, Tanvi went back to the letters from her safety schools. She had gotten into the University of Maryland, into its honors program. "So life isn't completely hopeless," she said.</p>

<p>And by now? She's so over it. Forget all those Ivies.</p>

<p>She visited U-Md., met students, felt like she could really stand out in the pre-med program. "It was amazing. It was so much fun," she said. "This is really where I was meant to be."</p>

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<p>Perhaps it's just me but having recieved all rejections from schools last year, I find the "There were so many qualified candidates this year than we could accept, etc." to be rather annoying. I don't really see the big deal with the wording of the OCU letter. They seem more straight up and gave an opinion that THEY felt was honest. </p>

<p>Personally, sugar coating doesn't help me as a performer. I really wish that schools would tell you the real reasons why you weren't accepted so that you could work those areas in the future. Having been in a conservatory intensive summer program I've been told to my face what I needed to change to get accepted to their school full time. It hurt and made me angry but at the same time it was true. This business isn't friendly and you need to build a tough skin. My mother said to me during the process last year that she was so proud of me. I asked why and she said because I have been working towards my dream and putting myself out there even though I keep being pushed back down. That meant more than any rejection from a "top school" that I recieved. </p>

<p>I'm not trying to be mean or anything but I don't see what complaining to OCU is going to do but cause a lot of unnecessary hassle. I say put it behind you! Your daughter has an acceptance in hand and that school will probably be where she is meant to end up! I believe in fate and that we meet certain people and are where we're supposed to be for a reason. Not every performer on Broadway has been to CMU, BoCo, Tisch, etc. and it doesn't mean that they're any less or more successful.</p>

184

<p>For some people a "you are not good enough" letter might be fine, but after all the work all of you kids have done, I think the letter should be nicer. After all, you didn't just send in common apps to schools and get faceless acceptances or rejections, you actually attended one or more (sometimes many more) audiitions in order to get into a college. Now, if we consider auditions to be basically the same as job interviews, you kids applied for college and had your post-collegiate job hunt at the same time. Very few kids can say the same, and very few high schools understand and aid you in this topsy turvy time, so I think it really is important the colleges acknowledge the work and abilities of all their applicants. My two cents.</p>

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<p>WELL SAID Happymom08! These auditions are a major effort!!</p>

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<p>This is an interesting post and possibly this goes along with this thread. I have read about nurturing our kids and how the colleges are being careful in their rejection letters. When we were at my S college parent orientation, they told us this generation of kids had some unique qualities 1) wanted a step by step plan for success 2) really liked planned organized activities (haven't they been in dance or soccer practices their entire lives?) 3) were close to their parents and considered them their heros.
I think this is the most important factor...#3. We have been there for them and will continue to be. They are going after their dreams and these are not cheap easy dreams. Lots of sacrifices by everyone is necessary. Innate talent is necessary but preparation is huge. These kids are prepared for the next step,be it MT, Acting or college. Life will be tough on them but they have something we may not have had....their parents are there for them in aspects unseen in past generations. They know we understand as we have been there for them and with them in a lot of ways. They need more help transitioning ( have seen that with both my S) but they also know they can call us about anything! (and usually do).</p>

<p>I applaud the colleges that let them down easy. College is a step to the real world, and this generation has been treated differently so we need to continue. After all they have other worries that we parents did not. Now I wish my D had applied to Yale just so we could get that kind rejection letter!! :)</p>

<p>Hope this makes sense....There are people that</p>

187

<p>I have to agree with NOdad. That was a very unprofessional letter. I think they could have had a little more tact. We received another rejection from CCM, but it was expected. I am glad we did not apply to OCU. We still await three more letters and unfortunately missed the last audition at Ithaca due to weather, we just wrote it off.</p>

<p>Just gotta keep checkin the mail box.</p>

<p>I commend all of our children and there persistance. They all will succeed!</p>

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<p>Have all the letters gone out from Otterbein, we have not received one yet? Perhaps in the mail today!</p>

189

<p>My son got NO LETTER today:(...fingers crossed yours will come!</p>

190

<p>We are still waiting on 5 letters, I don't know how much longer I can take this......... And I know one school won't even send them until April 1st.</p>

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<p>MTDAD and all....</p>

<p>SoozieVT and I just had a good discussion going on the Ithaca thread. It gave a different perspective. I don't know if you ever had a moment in your child's life when you felt their life was at risk ....like if they got in a car accident. If you haven't I'm happy for you but if you have you know that feeling that the only thing that really matters is they get out of it alive. Nothing else really matters. Look at it that way - you know they are going to live through this - and maybe it will make it easier. There are worse things in life than a rejection in this process.</p>

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<p>You are correct about the rejection process, it could be worse. I am glad my D is taking them all very well.</p>

<p>And with regard to the letters, yeah the waiting is tough. One of our schools won't send out until April 1st either. Most likely same school :)</p>

<p>Just remember it will all be over shortly and I am sure we will all have a lighter pocket book or wallet! :-) But it was something we all had to do, for better or worse!</p>

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<p>I know a girl who graduated from U Mich with a BA in Theater (not MT)...she since went on to law school and is a DA in a large city. As a high school senior, she applied to 25 colleges and was rejected by HALF of them, most of them lesser institutions that the one she finally decided on and attended. This is an immense comfort to me as we wait to hear from 5 more schools...so far PPU and PSU have said no and Shenandoah has said yes</p>

194

<p>All it really takes is one "yes," right? It's lovely to have choices, but we all need to remind ourselves that one kid can only attend one school -- at a time, anyhoo! :) Hang in there, everybody!</p>

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<p>I don't see the big problem with OCU's letter. Essentially, that's why students don't get in: they're not good enough. Coaxing a rejection with compliments doesn't do anything. I'd rather schools be honest. </p>

<p>If that rejection is too much to handle for kids, maybe they need to seriously reconsider their drive and possibility of succeeding in such a field.</p>

196

<p>NOdad, just to return to the OCU issue for a moment. After reading of your D's letter from them, I happened to be talking to a friend who has some colleague and friend connections at OCU and mentioned it to him. Unbeknownst to me (until today!), he wrote to Dr. Herendeen about it and received a very kind and concerned reply. Dr. Herendeen is away from school due to a family emergency at the moment and is unable to post himself but requested that his response be quoted here. I thought you, and others, might be interested in reading it.</p>

<p>"I want to thank you for your e-mail and the notification of the strife. I am, sadly, not near a computer, there is a family emergency that has pulled me away from my school family. I will look into the thread and the perspective related by those discussing the OCU letter. Rest assured that OCU does not ever intend to hurt or speak down to the noble auditioner. I do not think we have reworded our letter, but i honestly do not know. We have not had this sort of response to our letter ever, but that is not the issue. I will work to create the best letter possible to deliver news that must be disappointing to the candidates. Feel free to quote me. I am just sorry I cannot get in there and voice this myself.</p>

<p>Again, thanks for the kindness.
David Herendeen"</p>

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<p>
[quote]
I don't see the big problem with OCU's letter. Essentially, that's why students don't get in: they're not good enough. Coaxing a rejection with compliments doesn't do anything. I'd rather schools be honest.</p>

<p>If that rejection is too much to handle for kids, maybe they need to seriously reconsider their drive and possibility of succeeding in such a field.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I agree, it would be fantastic if the schools were honest, and gave the auditioners some CC about their audition and/or explained why their audition specifically did not meet the schools' needs. However, that is not the case. My understanding is that they do not have the resources to do so. Therefore I think a better rejection is one that does not cut a student down without explaining why the audition did not meet their standards.</p>

198

<p>Alwaysamom, yet another wonderful example of how our college confidential circle can be helpful!</p>

199

<p>I would just like to add my 2 cents about OCU's letter.</p>

<p>I think that anyone saying that you aren't talented enough to get into their program is a big cut-down, and, as aforementioned, there's no reason to rub salt in it. And the fact of the matter is that although we should be prepared for rejections in this line of work and study, there are truthfully no more important rejections than those from colleges. If I was a working actor and auditioned for 20 shows and didn't recieve a call back from one, it's not the end of the world, I still have 20 more to hear from. That's just 5% of the auditions that I've heard from. And if I didn't get any callbacks, then I still have more months to go. I still have a job, I just have to wait until next months' auditions. Whereas college is the next four years of your life. For that matter, the rest of your life. And we only get 8 or so shots at it. It's not something where you can just recover easily after 8 rejections and suck it up and do it again soon, you have to wait until next year. Not to mention that if I got rejected from doing a professional production, I might not necessarilly get a letter back saying that they can't offer me a part in the cast, but they would probably just let it slowly fade away allowing most people to forget about that one.</p>

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<p>OneSongGlory, </p>

<p>The fact of the matter is that it is not true that EVERY candidate who is not admitted to ONE particular BFA in MT is not "good enough." Many who are not admitted truly do not meet the standard of admission. However, anyone could tell you that at a college or a program that admits a very low percent of those whom apply, that there are SOME candidates who are as "good" as those who are admitted but they simply cannot accept them all and must make some choices, as well as build a diverse class of types and so on. I know kids rejected at Ivy League colleges who were admitted to other Ivy League colleges and who had every possible credential. You can't tell me that such candidates were not "good enough" because they WERE admitted to some top schools. What do you say when one students gets into Harvard but is rejected at Yale and yet another student is admitted to Yale but rejected to Harvard. Is such a student "not good enough" for the school he/she was denied at? Now, if you tell me a candidate was rejected to ALL equivalent schools, yes, that candidate likely wasn't strong enough to be admitted to any of them. When a program is accepting 5% of auditionees, there are more than 5% that have the requisite skills. You can't tell me that a student, such as one here on this very thread, who was admitted to UMich's MT program but rejected to Penn State's (same thing with my D's friend who is now at UMich) is not "good enough." Statistically speaking, a very competitive talented candidate is going to get into some top programs but likely not ALL of them given the very low admit rate odds and the aspect that they have no control over and that is "type" and where they may fill a slot in the class. So, for a school to word a letter that tells EVERY rejected candidate that they did not have the talent to get in, is simply false. It also is UNNECESSARY to do. </p>

<p>There are folks on Broadway who have been denied in numerous casting auditions. Are they not good enough? </p>

<p>Yes, those in this field MUST be prepared for REJECTION after REJECTION. However, I know when my kid was rejected at two programs, she didn't take it as "not good enough" but realized the difficult odds and that it wasn't a reflection of her talent. One must be strong in this field. Rejections go with the territory. If I judged her talent on her two rejections, it would be inaccurate. She got into five well regarded BFA in MT programs and was waitlisted at another top program. The decision from a specific program that was not in her favor isn't a reflection of her overall talent. </p>

<p>Yes, rejection goes with this territory. Those who cannot deal with rejection will have trouble in this field. But they don't need a program or casting agent to tell them they are "not good enough". It is more that they either don't fit the program (or the part) but have the talent for other programs or even that program had there been room (this is not applicable to ALL who are denied but clearly to SOME who have proven talent by the mere fact they hold many other BFA acceptances). Telling a candidate "you're not good enough" is not where it is at. Telling them, not THIS time or not THIS part or THIS program is more accurate and also more in good taste.</p>