Common Application - GC's

Applying to College
1

<p>Alright, so my guidance counselor that I actually recieve "guidance" from is my cousin. I have asked her to write letters of recommendation for the "School Report" part of the common application. Is it legal or allowed for me to do this? My assigned guidance counselor is a NEW counselor who just came to the school this year. She doesn't even know me, and the previous guidance counselor that I had assigned to me I really disliked. </p>

<p>Anyway, if I assume that this is legal or allowed, who should I put as my Guidance Counselor on the common application? My transcript would probably should a different GC than the one who wrote the LOR. I don't know if I explained this with enough clarity, but pretty much my letters of recommendation come from a GC that isn't "assigned" to me. So who should I put on the common application as my GC? The new lady or my cousin?</p>

2

<p>How old is your cousin? Does he/she know you well academically?</p>

<p>You should contact the admission office about this.</p>

3

<p>My cousin is probably 23 or 24.</p>

<p>We do not have the same last name, but her letter of recommendation would be a guidance counselors point of view. She does know me pretty well acaedmically so the recommendation would be accurate.</p>

4

<p>
[quote]
Is it legal or allowed for me to do this?

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</p>

<p>Your GC recommendation should come from your actual GC who works at your school, not the person who "gives you guidance". Your cousin should not be writing your recommendation as to do so she would risk losing her job and her license and ending her career before it starts for a professional ethics violation. </p>

<p>I understand that you are a kid and you don't know any better, but if your cousin is actually a GC (completed a state approved school counseling Masters program), she does know better and should have told you off the bat that she cannot do this for you. Unless she failed the course, was a sleep or was absent during the course on professional ethics (one of the first classes you take), your cousin is bound by both the American School Counselor Code of Ethics and the Amercan Counseling Association Code of ethics to exhibit ethical behavior which means avoiding dual relationships.</p>

<p>The ACA code of ethics states:</p>

<p>A.5.c. Nonprofessional Interactions or Relationships (Other Than Sexual or Romantic Interactions or Relationships)</p>

<p>Counselor–client nonprofessional relationships with clients, former clients, their romantic partners, or their family members should be avoided, except when the interaction is potentially beneficial to the client.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.counseling.org/Resources/CodeOfEthics/TP/Home/CT2.aspx%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.counseling.org/Resources/CodeOfEthics/TP/Home/CT2.aspx&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Section of the School Counselors Code of Ethics states:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.schoolcounselor.org/content.asp?contentid=173%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.schoolcounselor.org/content.asp?contentid=173&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>A.4. Dual Relationships</p>

<p>The professional school counselor:</p>

<p>a.** Avoids dual relationships that might impair his/her objectivity and increase the risk of harm to the student (e.g., counseling one’s family members, close friends or associates).** If a dual relationship is unavoidable, the counselor is responsible for taking action to eliminate or reduce the potential for harm. Such safeguards might include informed consent, consultation, supervision and documentation.</p>

<p>You are on a slippery slope where you could actually have any admissions you receive rescinded for misrepresentation (and this would be blatant misrepresentation). You have the responsibility to sit down with your guidanace counselor, have the conversation to make sure that she gets to know something about you (provide her with a brag sheet, a resume, tell her your tale of woe, whatever) and please make the effort to sit down and talk with her. She is the person responsible for writing your recommendation.</p>

5

<p>You are on a slippery slope where you could actually have any admissions you receive rescinded for misrepresentation (and this would be blatant misrepresentation). You have the responsibility to sit down with your guidanace counselor, have the conversation to make sure that she gets to know something about you (provide her with a brag sheet, a resume, tell her your tale of woe, whatever) and please make the effort to sit down and talk with her. She is the person responsible for writing your recommendation.</p>

<hr>

<p>I did this with my cousin. She is not giving the recommendation from a "family" persepective, but from what she knows about me as a student. I gave her a brag sheet, talked about the schools, gave her a resume as well and did all that stuff. The only reason I did not make an effort to talk to the GC who is assigned to me is because she doesn't know me as well. She has been at our school for 4 months now and it doesn't seem fair to us students who have a new GC for our senior year to ask for recommendations when she doesn't even know us.</p>

6

<p>Is your cousin employed as a guidance counselor by your school? If not, then you should not use her for the guidance counselor section. It is a SCHOOL report, and your guidance counselor needs to send the SCHOOL's information along with a recommendation. All the GC needs to do is indicate that she is new to your school; the GC recommendation doesn't carry all that much weight anyway. Colleges know that most kids from public schools don't know their guidance counselors.</p>

7

<p>Yeesh, Solsek, listen to some advice here, since you asked for it.</p>

<p>It sounds as though your cousin GC (who is only 24) might be underinformed herself about her own profession's ethics.</p>

<p>It sounds like a bunch of kids at your school are grumpy about the fact that you have been assigned a new GC so "that's not fair" b/c she doesn't know you. Meanwhile, you've had 4 months to get to know her (rather than mope and group-gripe). </p>

<p>I know that there are times when a college phones the GC to confirm a point, or if they're on the fence about someone and want to talk it over first-hand.
Don't you think the college will NOTICE when the GC isn't from the h.s. listed on your transcript???</p>

<p>Your h.s.'s new GC went to grad school where she learned how to get to know you, based on your transcript-to-date, the informal chat that you haven't bothered to have with her yet, and talking with your teachers. In her first year at the school, she is probably especially eager to do a great job for the students. Aren't you eager to impress in your first months of a new job? So is she. With the same time you and your friends decided not to know her, you could have gotten to know her.</p>

<p>There are so many lessons here that are relevant to how you'll approach college life. Guess what. Nobody there will know you, either. You'll have to forge every new relationship with every adult. How about starting now with your own, real, legal GC? </p>

<p>However much of a shade better your cousin's rec is for you, compared to the possible damage of all this being discovered, is huge. I can't believe your parents let you do this, BTW. </p>

<p>Nepotism -- do you intend to live your life by it?</p>

<p>Please wise up.</p>

8

<p>Based on the two rules that you posted above (A4 and A5) I still do not see where it is illegal for her to give me a letter of recommendation. The only thing I see is that a GC is now allowed to help me when the situtation is not benefical to me (In this situtation - the benefit would be the letter of recommendation). Part A4 says that she must avoid relationships because they might impair her objectivity and increase the risk of harm to me. Now I do now see where her giving a letter of recommendation would cause any harm to me (Except in the case if it is truly illegal for her to do so). I see her only two or three times a year, and there is no "favoritism" towards me over her other students. She won't write a skewed letter of recommendation full of lies, but she would write a truthful one (I don't understand why this is not allowed). </p>

<p>What is by default she was my actual true guidance counselor, would I be given a different guidance counselor because we are related (Not immediate family)? Still, the fact that my old guidance counselor is not my current assigned GC is not fair to students who have had the same GC for 4 years now. The letter of recommendation that this new GC I have would not have the same quality because she does not know her students as well. Thats why I opted accept the offer from my cousin. </p>

<p>I have done everything that would be required of a NORMAL student who had no family relations with their GC. I talked with my cousin at her office in school, gave her a brag sheet of my classes i've taken, given her a list of EC's /awards/accompishments, and have discussed with her why I want to go to the colleges I have chosen. I have done everything that a regular student would have, except with my cousin. I don't understand how this could be illegal if my cousin did not write a skewed LOR.</p>

9

<p>paying3tuitions, why must you be so cynical? My cousin offered me to write this letter of recommendation, I did not know better. Please don't come here and lecture to me about how to form relationships. You obviously have some sort of built up anger from the first impression I have of you. Like I said, there is NO favoritism in this letter. She is a good person, as am I, there must be some sort of misunderstanding on her part. </p>

<p>I have talked with my NEW GC before, but AGAIN I did not approach her to ask her to write a letter of recommendation for me because my cousin had done so already. My cousin asked me to do what she asks all her students to do. Bring her a list of EC's,classes I have taken, awards/accomplishments and anything else of importance. </p>

<p>As for why my parents would allow me to do this....they do not understand that it is illegal, nor do they even know about it. Why should they? They are from the Phillipines where school is completely different there, and they have no clue about how HS/College works here in American as I am the first to go to college here in America. </p>

<p>Nepotism - do I intend to live my life by it? You really are a jerk. I can't believe you'd say this to a person you don't even know. Do you know me or my GC as a person? No. We are both Christian, why would she do something illegal if did not know it was (Devout Christian you could even say). Are you going to be that ignorant to believe that this MISUNDERSTANDING is a representation of who I am as a whole? You're going to ask me to wise up? I would like to meet you in person and see what kind of life you live with this attitude towards people.</p>

10

<p>Also, I asked for advice paying3tuitions, not your subjective view of who I am as a person. Now ask yourself this, because you obviously have no depth in your analysis of who I am. Would I come here and ask the people of CC if it was illegal or legal for me to do this? Don't you think if I wanted to "cheat" my way into college, I would not care and just move on? No, I am here asking if it is legal or not so I can do it right. That means I am a bad person though right? Because I'm trying to figure out if what had been done was right or not. What do you have to say to this?</p>

<p>Again, what if the hypothetical situtation was at hand. What if my actualy GC was my cousin? Would it make it illegal for me to ask her for a letter of recommendation? Would I have to ask a different GC who I have never met before? I am sure some students out there are in this hypothetical situtation. What makes it illegal if what is being said is true?</p>

11

<p>
[quote]
Based on the two rules that you posted above (A4 and A5) I still do not see where it is illegal for her to give me a letter of recommendation.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>It is a professional ethics violation</p>

<p>
[quote]
What is by default she was my actual true guidance counselor, would I be given a different guidance counselor because we are related (Not immediate family)? Still, the fact that my old guidance counselor is not my current assigned GC is not fair to students who have had the same GC for 4 years now.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>First of all, your school would not assign you to a relative the same way that they do not assign students to to their parents classes if their parent were a teacher or GC.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I don't understand how this could be illegal if my cousin did not write a skewed LOR.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>If your cousin is not on staff at your high school, while it is not "Illegal" where she would get locked up, if found out, she would definitely come under disciplinary action by both her high school and the school district which could be escalated to the state level and her license revoked.</p>

<p>the net-net is this, there is no right way to do something that you know is wrong.</p>

<p>I'll tell you what, you or your cousin should go see either the AP of Guidance (who would be her supervisor) or your school's principal pose the question to them and see what answer you get (it is highly unlikely that either one is going to risk losing their job to uphold your cousin doing something wrong).</p>

<p>You still have not answered the question is your cousin employed by your high school? If no and she writes the recommendation it could be immediate grounds for her losing her job at her school because she has essentially falsified documents (she wrote you a rec and signed it as she is on staff at a school where she is not). If she is in the union, they will not uphold her case because she is still working on a provisonal license.</p>

<p>What happens when your GC writes a recomendation and sends it off to the college (if she is the person responsible for sending out the transcripts, she would be just doing her due diligence to fill out the school report/GC evaluation). Remember the forms are in word document so she most likely would already have it downloaded with your pertinent information already filled out.</p>

12

<p>Yes, I thought it would be assumed that she is employed by the school. She is one of 4 guidances counselors at my school. We have the student body split into 4 sections according to your last name. Her section of the alphabet does not fall under my last name, but it <em>technicallly</em> could have if I had a different letter for the beginning of my last name. </p>

<p>First of all, your school would not assign you to a relative the same way that they do not assign students to to their parents classes if their parent were a teacher or GC.</p>

<p>Interesting that you say this...My AP Physics teacher taught her daughter 2 years ago (She is now in college). My AP Physics teacher also is now CURRENTLY teaching her youngest daughter who is a sophomore. One of my friends is also in a class taught by her father who is not only a teacher, but the VICE PRINCIPAL of the school. I have another friend whos MOTHER is a guidance counselor, but she recieves favoritism in the school over other students, how come that isn't illegal? (Not that I really care in any of these situtation, especially my AP Physics teacher - she told us that her daughter recieves no favoritism. Her word is enough for me that she is not giving her daughter any sort of advantage over the other students).</p>

13

<p>Is the AP phyics teacher the only teacher who teaches the course? (If this is the case it is something that cannot be avoided because if the kid meets the requirements to be admitted to the class, then she is allowed in the class). Keep in mind that teachers grades books are reviewed by their supervisors and who ever is responsible for programming has made the dept. chair aware that the child is in her parent's class.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I have another friend whos MOTHER is a guidance counselor, but she recieves favoritism in the school over other students, how come that isn't illegal?

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</p>

<p>I am willing to bet that she does not have her D as part of her case load and the mom is not writing the recommendation for the kid. It is not to say that professional courtesies are not done (my sister teaches at the high school where her son attends and her peers will keep her informed about him). she extends the same professional courtesies to her peers who have kids in her class.</p>

<p>Your cousin working in the school and usurping the GC assigned to you would only make it worse especially if your GC complained about the situation. Your cousin is new in her career and this is not a good way to kick it off.</p>

<p>You have answered your own question, you are not assigned to your cousin's caseload. There is nothing wrong with you and your cousin sitting down and talking to your guidance counselor. Your cousin can provide input to your GC (even pass on her notes), and your GC can write the recomendation. It is not unusual for students to be assigned to different counselors and for counselors to get input from their peers. This would create a win-win for all involved.</p>

<p>good luck to you</p>

14

<p>Yes, thank you...I will do this tommorow. Anyway, I hope too much damage hasn't been done. I have only given her the forms and envelope to send out one School Report to JHU. I am not sure if she had already mailed it or not, but I am hoping she did not. Since your advice is actually insightful, is there anything that could be done if 1 LOR was sent to 1 college sybbie? (I am applying to 8 colleges total, and my assigned GC will write them I guess).</p>

15

<p>On your original post, you had already requested letter(s)? be sent and asked people to advise you on a technical point: which name to indicate on the Common Ap. as your Guidance Counselor.
Since you are young, you got upset with advice that indicated both you and your cousin might be making a larger mistake.
While I don't welcome being called me a "jerk" and "ignorant" I know you must have been upset to have written that.
Sybbie sounds like she knows the GC profession and its ethics. I am glad you are responding to her advice. I just want you to do the thing well so your dreams come true and nothing backfires on you. That's all. I'm for kids.</p>

16

<p>excuse me, your OP said letters had been written (but not yet sent). I'm sure you can rein this in so it is all within the professional ethics that Sybbie describes. Good luck to you. It's not easy to figure all this out.</p>

17

<p>Yes I was upset by the way you answered my question which resulted in the comments that I said. I shouldn't have said that, and I am sorry. But I still think you do not understand the situtation. Trust me, my cousin and myself had no intention of doing this illegal action. I went to my cousin and asked her herself if it was allowed, and the funny thing was is that she forgot that we were related - kind of funny actually cause she realized it the second I asked her if it was legal because we were related. I had already asked my real guidance counselor to write my LOR prior to talking to her and she said yes. Luckily my cousin had not sent out any LOR's for me so no harm was done. Please understand that I had no intention of any wrong doing, that is why I came here to ask if it was legal.</p>

18

<p>It sounds like you are handling things well. With no LOR's sent out, no harm done. Best wishes and may your dreams come true.</p>