Community College

<p>Ok so i've heard a lot of people on this board saying that grades are the most important factor in admissions, and that graduating from a state school will not hurt your chances of getting in. Well I think that is fair, but what if you went to a community college and then transferred to a state school? Would going to a community college give me less of a shot?</p>

<p>Yes, a CC would lower your chances. Many med schools will not accept CC courses, particularly sciences, as they are not considered to be truly pre med level.
The higher GPA may get you past the first scan, but it's unlikely to get you any further.</p>

<p>really? thats harsh. even if you were able to transfer to a school like ucsd?</p>

<p>Well a human being is going to evaluate that transcript. They aren't going to consider the A you got at a CC as the equivalent of an A in a pre med level science at UCSD.
Unless you have some really, really, really awesome explanation as to why someone with aspirations of becoming a physician was hanging out at a CC, indeed I think the picture is bleak.</p>

<p>It would be nice to believe that this is true. Justice would indeed be served. After all getting A's from community college is clearly a whole lot easier to do than getting A's at a place like UCSD or some other public school. I certainly want to believe this is the case. </p>

<p>Yet the facts do not completely square with the theory. Just like it's easier to get top grades at a CC then at UCSD, it is also easier to get top grades at UCSD than at a place like MIT. Yet the fact is, med-school adcoms demand the same high grades from MIT students than they do from everybody else, despite the fact that their classes are indisputably harder. The adcoms don't seem to care that their classes are harder. This is why the average GPA of admitted MIT premeds is a startlingly high 3.7/4. You would think that if med-schools really cared about the difficulty of your undergraduate coursework, then they would account for the fact that MIT is an extremely difficult school and therefore be admitting more MIT students who have lower grades, thereby lowering the average accepted MIT premed GPA. </p>

<p><a href="http://web.mit.edu/career/www/infostats/preprof.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://web.mit.edu/career/www/infostats/preprof.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>So if med-school adcoms would really treat CC classes with a jaundiced eye because of their lack of rigor and high grades, then why aren't they also looking at the grades of lower-level (read:easier) 4-year colleges with askance, relative to the grades of an indisputably difficult place like MIT? In other words, shouldn't the adcoms be accounting for ALL instances where certain classes are easier than others, not just certain instances? Why would the adcoms single out the CC's for special treatment?</p>

<p>I've actually heard that they do, sakky. But it was just heresay.</p>

<p>Because CCs really just conjure up that slacker image.
When online degrees get equal consideration with regular degrees by med school adcoms, CCs may come of age. Not before.</p>

<p>if they dont admit someone who has done well at a cc and transferred to a 4 year institution because they went to a cc, then they are pretty much penalizing people who are poor and need to save money and cc was the best choice for them.</p>

<p>Uh, what does this have to with online degrees? </p>

<p>And about the whole slacker image - I would argue that there are plenty of 4-year colleges out there that are basically filled with slackers, for example, some of the extremely low-tier colleges out there. These schools are basically little more than just glorified community colleges that just so happen to grant bachelor's degrees. Yet med-school adcoms don't seem to have a problem with those schools. Why not? Furthermore, even at top-tier schools, there are entire majors full of slackers. You know what I'm talking about, those majors where you can pass the classes just by barely showing up. Yet again, med-schools don't seem to have a problem with those guys who major in those fields (as long as they get good grades and MCAT scores), despite the fact that their grades were far easier to obtain than for people who studied something difficult. Yet as I think we both agreed, the guy with straight A's in Film Studies has the edge over the guy with straight B's in electrical engineering, even though the latter guy is probably a harder worker. </p>

<p>Hence it seems to me that med-school adcoms, are turning a blind eye towards the fact that certain 4-year schools, and certain majors, are far more difficult than others. Whether it's accidental or deliberate, I don't know, but the evidence seems to indicate that this is happening, as evidenced by the suspiciously high average GPA needed by MIT and Berkeley premeds to get admitted. Hence, it seems rather convenient to me that adcoms would know to differentiate between CC grades and 'regular' grades, considering that they either don't see, or they refuse to see the difference between, say, engineering grades and creampuff-class grades. Or the difference between grades at a difficult school and grades at an easy school. Where is calkidd when you need him? I'm sure he has some choice words to say about this.</p>

<p>Sakky, all I can tell you is that there is a certain stigma to it (the CC) which doesn't sit well with these adcom folks. I likened it to an online degree because both cases are academic achievements that to some may seem dubious.
Now let me say that an online degree or an associates degree from a CC are not without merit to my mind, but when compared to folks who have come through a competitive 4 year college pgm, especially when medicine is the career goal, the former cannot be considered in the same light as the latter.</p>

<p>I'd say if you're <em>smart</em>, definitely not. My physics instructor (who tutored my friend and I when he had time) dropped out of high school (he hated the whole social aspect of it), took a one year break, enrolled in to community college, and went to Cal Tech. He was a professor at University of Pennsylvania and now he has his own engineering business and is a millionaire. No joke! I dunno, it depends on the intellect and the drive</p>

<p>Good story. But advice should be given based on general trends and results (and backed up with statistically significant numbers whenever available), not on testimonials of any one person's success.
That sort of approach definitely argues in favor of dropping out of Harvard to earn more money because that's what Bill Gates did.
However, for most folks, graduating will work better.
So while somebody out there will definitely get into a good med school and become a big-shot in medicine after a stint at a CC, it's still not the better path, statistically speaking.
(BTW, as physicians, we make all of our key decisions based upon just that, valid statistical observation)</p>

<p>Fine, then it that's true, then that merely calls for a simple adjustment. Don't go to a CC. Instead, go to a no-name scrub public school (which is in many ways effectively a glorified cc that just happens to also grant bachelor's degrees) and take all your premed courses there where the competition will be easy and if you have a brain and a work ethic, you will get top grades. Then either transfer those credits to the 'real' school that you attend. Or just stay at that school and complete the bachelor's degree. </p>

<p>As discussed many times on this forum, you seem to get minimal 'props' for attending a big-league program and certainly not enough to compensate you for the lower grades you will get. The only possible exception is the CC's, for which still don't believe a stigma exists. But presuming that the stigma does exist, then just go to a very easy public school that isn't a CC. It will turn out to be the same thing - easy classes where you can pick up easy grades while avoiding the supposed stigma of the CC's.</p>

<p>I agree 100% with sakky. Some public scools are just 4-year versions of community colleges. University of Cinncinati for example, they accept 10 out of 11 students that apply over there. On the other hand most CC accept 10 out of 10 and some even have higher standards...Parkland College in Champaign, IL for example they accept 8 out of 10 students.</p>

<p>Wow...I disagree. </p>

<p>CC science classes ARE accepted by medical schools. As to whether or not it hurts your chances for acceptance, that is the variable among adcoms.</p>

<p>I believe that cc science classes are also accepted by most medical schools. I have not heard of any medical schools that make a blanket statement that they will not accept such classes. I'm sure there are one or two, but I doubt that they represent anything more than a small minority of all med-schools.</p>

<p>As far as whether it hurts your chances for acceptance, I also tend to believe that they will not (as long as you do well in them of course). But if there is any doubt, then don't take such classes from a cc per se. Instead, take them from a low-level state school that basically little more than a glorified cc.</p>