Community Colleges: The Pros and Cons

<p>I'm from CT and want to attend a college in MA. I've been looking at colleges since I was twelve, and I am a very involved, top student at my school. So, tonight, I was browsing a list of colleges in MA, and came across Cape Cod Community College. Normally when I mention a college to my mom, she shrugs and nods, obviously tired of me constantly naming possible colleges every ten seconds. But when I said "Hey mom, what about CCCC?" she instantly got excited.
We started talking, and realized that it may be ridiculous to spend $50,000+ for my first two years of college when I do not know what I want to do and would just be doing core classes anyway. Hopefully during those two years at CCCC, I would be able to see what interests me and then transfer to a four year school and get my diploma from there. Plus, as much as my parents reassure me that we'll find a way to pay for college, I know that means student loans, and lots of them!
But then came the negatives...no housing and the inability to commute, and of course, missing out on the "real" college experience.</p>

<p>So people of CC, what do you think? Do community colleges get a thumbs up or a thumbs down?</p>

<p>I feel like community colleges scare the majority of CC posters.</p>

<p>I’ll just do a mini-summary…</p>

<p>Pros

  • Cheap
  • Smaller intro classes than at most 4-years
  • Professors seem more willing to help than at a 4-year
  • Less competitive atmosphere
  • Professors tend to be more flexible/forgiving regarding assignments and due dates
  • Diverse group of students</p>

<p>Cons

  • Open admissions = lots of slackers/apathy and an overall lower quality of students
  • Can become tough to transfer credits out-of-state and/or to a private school
  • Limited course offerings
  • Advising is very hit or miss
  • No campus unity…people just go to class and then go home</p>

<p>Pros/Cons
+/- Classes tend to have less work and are easier than at a 4-year
+/- Professors take longer to explain topics that some might find difficult/complex</p>

<p>Community colleges are definitely cheap, which, to me, stands as an extremely luring attribute. I’m applying to a few CCs as back up schools primarily due to financial issues. But one thing I’ve learned while hunting for CCs is that you should do your research well, because, obviously, some schools are much better than others.</p>

<p>As you’ve already stated, attending a CC for two years is a very smart idea, especially if you have no idea what you want to be later on in life, and certainly more so if money is an issue.</p>

<p>I think that a lot of people are somewhat adverse to attending CCs because of the lack of prestige: As egotistical as that may sound, these sort of things are pretty important to (far too) many people. But personally, I find that it’s a sound, reasonable, and very smart route to go.</p>

<p>So for me, community colleges get a thumbs up.</p>

<p>Cheers.</p>

<p>The bigggest issue for those who have the option is the low transfer acceptance rates at so many schools. If you would be aiming at a large state school or privates with high acceptance rates for your last 2 years, the downside is smaller.</p>

<p>Though an out of state CC seems less practical with OOS tuition and housing costs.</p>

<p>The academics are great at my community college which is stlcc meramec but the social life on campus sucks a huge one. Its pretty much just like the 13th grade of high school. I’ve only met a couple of friends that I actually hang with and I still talk to a couple of my friends from high school of course the ones who didn’t drop out after the first semester haha</p>

<p>If you are expecting to transfer after two years, you should meet with the transfer counselors early on in your application process. There should be several articulation agreements between the CC you are looking at and one or more 4-year institutions. If you complete the course sequence with the GPA called for in that articulation agreement, you will be guaranteed transfer into the junior year of that program at the cooperating institution. In other words degree in X from college/university y for much less money than you would have spent if you had started at college/university y in the first place.</p>

<p>You also need to find out what kind of financial aid is available. In addition to need-based aid, most CCs have some merit-based scholarships. Our local community college has three different honors programs, two of which come with are full tuition and fees scholarships for both years.</p>

<p>Some community colleges do have housing on campus, and many that don’t will help out-of-town student find places to share. However, it you would have to pay out-of-state fees as well as find a place to live and do all of your own cooking, you might be better off to take another look at your home-state public universities for an affordable option.</p>

<p>You can use the CollegeBoard CollegeMatchmaker search engine to look for both 2 and 4-year schools, and it can help you locate CCs with residence halls if you need them.</p>

<p>I don’t know if this has been said yet, but joining phi theta kappa looks good when trying to transfer and can help you qualify for additional financial aid when you do transfer.</p>

<p>

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<p>Only maybe 40-50 schools have low (~25%) transfer acceptance rates, so for many kids, its a non-issue. </p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/transfer-students/947954-2010-transfer-rates.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/transfer-students/947954-2010-transfer-rates.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>My kid just finished year one at a CC. She’s taken hard classes and been challenged. She’s in the honors program - first dibs at classes plus an honors class per semester with excellent professors. So far her only complaint is the social aspect, but then she’s not aggressively pursued clubs. However, a neighbor’s kid did speech team and loves his time with the kids he’s met via that activity. Seems like the sports teams allow for new friendships too.</p>

<p>Find out if obtaining an associates degree will help you w/transfer credits. It greatly does here in IL.</p>

<p>Well this is long, but maybe there is some helpful information for Texas residents in here and well as our general experience.</p>

<p>We did this with D in 2007. A little high school background, she was an low average (83-85 GPA if I recall) student at a tough & small private high school. ACT of 26, SAT of around 1700, she took AP English 11th grade, took the exam, made a 3, opted for College Prep English her senior year, Pre-AP and AP Biology, did not take that exam, Pre-AP Chem, no physics and was on our school’s non AP math track. She took 4 years of college prep math, algebra I & II, Geometry and Trig, but the only thing that got her through trig her junior year was an awesome teacher (who loved her thankfully), very small classes and tutorial twice a week. She’s an art student, is not math and science brained at all. We have an amazing art program. She wanted to Art Education which is basically an art major and a minor in teaching, 132 hours. In order to do the teacher certification program even for art, she had to have one semester of College Algebra or above and 2 semesters of a lab science. </p>

<p>Knowing her strengths and weaknesses she did a lot of wavering back and forth, but in the end decided to start at a two year private college (before her college search I didn’t even know such a time existed) and on the whole it was the best decision for her. Mostly pros and one relativity big con (for us) but had we done better homework we would have at least known about it.</p>

<p>Pros: 1. And this is an important one, in Texas (and I’m assuming other states as have an equivalent as well) there is what is called Texas Transfer. Its difficult to find information about unless you know it exists and was suggested to us by the art dean, who was her academic adviser as well. Basically it works like this, at a two year school a students takes and passes core classes from a specific list (which you can find with digging on the TEA website, but which her school had available) and this is guaranteed to transfer and meet core curriculum requirements for any Texas public university. The catch is, it was to be recorded on the official transcript as Texas Transfer from the 2 year school. This was great in a number of ways. First, there were some required core classes at the 4 year university at the freshman/sophomore level that were not available at her 2 year school so she was able to substitute some classes that were available and not be behind when she transferred. Second, this allowed her to take a couple of classes that she wanted to take and/or avoid some others, knowing they would transfer and would count. For instance her 2 year school offered the required university core speech class and another speech class that was taught by the president of the college and was an excellent class, both counted at her lower level, and the 2nd class was listed on Texas Transfer so also counted. There was a computer class & history she needed for SFA that was not offered at Lon Morris, but they offered another off the list, so they counted. She graduated with an associate’s degree, transferred just fine. Then met with the new dean for her degree plan which is when I found out how important it was that Texas Transfer be marked on her transcript. They had her as still needing core courses, a quick trip to the registrar’s office for a copy of her transcript marked Texas Transfer and that was cleared up. (Note, I’m not opposed to extra classes so much as it was the fact that she already needed 132 hours for her BA). We we lucky advising at Lon Morris was great, so that first semester she knew her plan to be able to transfer in smoothly.</p>

<p>Pro 2: Small classes, her college algebra class started w/20, several dropped, ended w/12 but she passed w/a B, physics, again small classes, one A, one B, but she was able to know her professors, ask for help, they were available, she would have never been able to do that in a class w/100. (She can do the math/science, she hates it and convinces herself she can’t)</p>

<p>Pro 3: Easier transition to dorm and campus life, had always been in a small school, 40 in her senior class, and she’s not the most outgoing, would probably have been lost, but was able to fit in and was art club president her sophomore year, probably wouldn’t have happened at a bigger school. </p>

<p>How good was the education; To some extent, I think it’s as good as you make of it, she said even with that small a math class, some students made no effort to seek help or ask questions, only complained, hence the drops. Lon Morris chooses students at random to take ACT’s (CAAP) Collegiate Assessment of Academic Proficiency, in four areas Writing, Mathematics, Reading and Critical Thinking and she received recognition for scoring above the national mean in all 4 areas, (again she was thrilled by math), I have no idea what the national mean was, so take that for what it’s worth but final result: she transferred into the honors program, is president of the art educator’s club or association, was a finalist in the undergraduate research symposium this past spring, carries a 3.7 (which still thrills her when she thinks about it) SFA was not my choice, she loves it, but she chooses her schools by their art department and professors, she could care less about anything else. She has an art education instructor who she idolizes, has actually taught art at the elementary level, (where she wants to) and has art exhibited in art museums, so that’s the kind of thing she looks for. </p>

<p>The Con: Transfer aid packages on the whole are not as strong as freshman aid packages, which caused her to have to take out a little unsubsidized Stafford loan that I hated to see. However as a finalist in the research symposium, this qualified her for a fairly big scholarship for this upcoming year, which may allow her to not have to take any loan at all this so it might balance out, depends if she can student teach and do her work study, which I’m not sure about. On other caveat concerning financial aid. Texas has (IMO) one of the poorest grant programs for colleges among the states (we rank low in several other areas too, don’t get me started). We have the Texas Grant, which as I found out is A: not guaranteed to every high school student that qualifies for it, when it’s out of money each year that is too bad to all the rest of the high school kids who qualified (seems to me if a state is going to offer a grant for college to high school students based on certain qualifications, it should fund it for all those that qualify, and from the reading I’ve done that’s how other state’s grant programs work) and just in case anyone is wondering it’s only for public schools and you have to start at a public school to ever get it, so because she was transferring from a private college, to a public university, she was not eligible even though she met the criteria as a freshman back when. I knew it was a public school program, I just wasn’t aware that because she started as a freshman at a private she was automatically ruled out for any future use.</p>

<p>CC’s tend to serve several populations, all of whom are enrolled in the same classes. You have retired people (and sometimes working people in evening classes) who take classes for general interest. You have students who due to financial or other constraints intend on getting a 4-year degree but start in a CC. Some go to a CC because they want to live in the area and eventually transfer to a nearby 4-year college. You have some students who finally got serious about education after HS when they realized they weren’t working hard enough in HS to get into a 4-year college, and our country can be proud that there’s a way for these people to get back on track (in contrast to a country like France, where a one-time placement exam in HS determines whether you can go to college, and which one).</p>

<p>And finally you have the students that people often have in mind when they 'dis CCs, those who maybe don’t belong there. These days its somewhat frowned upon to finish HS with no intention of college. Many parents expect their kids to go to college, even if Johnny has no interest in doing so. The CC plays the role of bridge between HS and the “real world” for these students, allowing them to at least give a show of attending college before quitting.</p>

<p>And there are lots of these students! Stats show that about 2/3 HS grads enroll in college, and that 42% of all students in college are at 2-year schools. Yet only 1/3 of the US adult population has a 4-year degree. The outcome stats that follow kids over 6-8 years clearly show this “CC bridge-out effect”. In a US Gov’t study of traditional CC students (kids who went to CC right after HS) 63% reported they intended to eventually get a 4-year degree and another 18% said they were aiming for an AA degree. The outcome 8 years later? Out of those students, only 21% got a 4-year degree and another 18% got an AA. In other words, 81% of those entering a CC said they were going to get a degree but only 31% actually did<img src=“Source:%20%5Burl=http://nces.ed.gov/programs/quarterly/vol_5/5_2/q4_1.asp]The%20Education%20Statistics%20Quarterly:%20Vol.%205,%20Issue%202,%202003[/url]” alt=“/u”></p>

<p>Peer effects play a big role in how people do in life; in HS, in college, at work. There is a fair amount of social pressure to conform to what the community standards are if you want to get along and make friends. So if only 1 out of 5 of the more traditional kids at a CC are going to end up with a 4-year degree, 80%+ of your peers are probably not going to be setting good examples of how to study, attitude towards academics, or be good to get together with to figure out homework and study. Ask too many questions in class, complain the instructor is going at too slow a pace or is just checking off the homework was turned in and not bothering to actually correct them, and someone is likely to set you straight as to school norms (perhaps with their fists).</p>

<p>Keep in mind, too, that CC students tend to come from the local area and live at home. So social opportunities are going to be different, as well as the sense of getting away from home and taking part in the college experience. And it can be harder to make friends at a new school after you xfer from a CC. When the frosh show up, everyone is in the same boat – nervous & knowing few if any people on campus. One of the easiest time to make new acquaintances (some of which will turn into friends) is the early period of frosh year. By junior year the continuing students have had a lot of their friends 2 years, sharing a history with them. It’s not impossible to make new friends as a junior xfer, and the more outgoing you are the easier it is, but a lot of xfers can tell you what it feels like to go into a classroom of 25 people and it seems like 24 of the other people in there already know each other.</p>

<p>Time is also compressed for CC xfer students. It might take a semester to really feel at home at a college – learning about the clubs, what leisure time activities are around, finding good hangouts, getting to know the rep of different classes and profs so you can make better choices when signing up for classes, just generally finding your way around. As a frosh you have 7 semesters after that to go; as a junior xfer you have 3. If you think about applying to grad school which is commonly done senior year, kids that have been at the school since frosh year have had 3 years to get to know faculty members for recs. Those interested in research have had 3 years to build up responsibilities in the lab so they have something significant to list.</p>

<p>I’m not saying not to do it; for many students a CC turns out to be the best choice for a number of reasons. And there are CC’s that do much better than average; often ones located near a major U since kids enroll their with intent to xfer such as Santa Monica CC near UCLA, or in suburbs with high average incomes such as DeAnza CC in Silicon Valley.</p>

<p>My experience at a community college has been wonderful (though the semester I started they changed to Indian River State College, but just because the offer a B.S. in Education or Nursing now). I’ve been doing it in lieu of regular high school classes for Junior and Senior year, and I’ve had great professors (ratemyprofessors.com, parents, and friends have helped with that). I’ve even had a friend who left a 4-year school to go there for 2 years, before transferring back (much cheaper, and if you take the right classes with the right professors, you’ll learn just as well). If you like this idea better, and the school you want to go to actively accepts transfer, I’d say it would be good. Out-of-state CC tuition will be higher than in-state, but much lower than the first 2 years of a 4-year college. But I’m in Florida, where the same classes (usually with the same quality) from the first 2 years of state Universities are offered at CCs, with guaranteed transfer, so I don’t know a lot about other systems.</p>

<p>I don’t want to go to a CC because I think it makes me look like a slacker or a failure.
I think I might be taking it the wrong way but I’m to scared to think seriously about CCs
Do others feel the same way?</p>

<p>Talibah: As you get older and more mature, you start to look at things in a different way. While many high schoolers like to bash CC, once they become college students, they usually start to change their opinions regarding CC and see it as a decent way to get cheap credit. In fact, a decent number of these kids that bashed CC in high school actually end up taking summer classes at a CC. Once you actually take a few classes, you’ll see that the students there are very diverse, from nerds to slackers to single moms to grandparents and so on.</p>

<p>To date I have taken undergraduate classes at:
One highly selective recognizable-on-CC LAC
One non-selective LAC
One Ag/Tech Public U
One highly selective recognizable-on-CC Research U
Two public community colleges (in two different centuries and two different states)</p>

<p>I encountered excellent teaching at all of these places. I also encountered less-than-excellent teaching at all of them. I never once heard of anyone trying to set anyone straight as to school norms “with their fists”. mikemac clearly has had a different experience than I have.</p>

<p>Nationwide the single largest group of traditional-age college students attends community college. Most of them do this because of money. If you find yourself in this group, it is nothing to be ashamed of or feared. College is mostly what you make of it, and you can indeed graduate in four years (if that is your goal) starting at a community college. Having a clear goal, and keeping your eyes on the prize will make all the difference.</p>

<p>Half of the kids who go to college in our county start at our community college. People are shocked when they hear the figures.</p>

<p>If you start at a community college, sit down with an advisor and talk about what you want to do. Do check for articulation agreements; some colleges are much better than others with these and they will make a huge difference in how your credits transfer. If you have no idea what you want to do, take one of the classes that talks about careers and majors–it is worth the money. Try to take classes with full-time professors. Not that they are so superior to all part-time professors, but they are more available if you need help.</p>

<p>Community colleges vary widely in what they offer. They can be a great place to start. One thing that doesn’t get mentioned on this site enough is that you get out of college what you put into it, and you can find wonderful teachers at CCs.</p>

<p>

But only 21% of those that start at a CC ever get a 4-year diploma. Which means 8 out of every 10 kids around you when you start at most CC’s won’t. </p>

<p>It can be hard to maintain motivation and find good examples to emulate when the vast majority of your fellow students aren’t going to get a BA degree. And this statistic has to have some effect on what the classes are like compared to a 4-year college. I’m not saying don’t do it, I’m saying look carefully at the CC’s you consider – who attends, how many go on to 4-year colleges, etc. There is a lot of variation, even if the overall average is not very encouraging.</p>

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LOL yeah. It feels like a CCer would rather commit suicide than get rejected from all the colleges of their choice and end up at a Community College.</p>

<p>Haha, I was wondering about that. I never saw anyone post anything against CCs but I have a feeling that CollegeCon’s weren’t friendly to them due to the majority of post being about Ivy league schools.</p>

<p>the question as I see it is this: How badly do you want to go to school in Massachusetts all 4 years?</p>

<p>I don’t know the specific cost but I presume that going to a directional school in connecticut (Central Connecticut, Eastern Connecticut etc…) would be a cheap option? Why not go there for a year or two and then transfer to a school in Massachusetts?</p>

<p>I’ve taken classes at community college and while you generally do cover about the same material (80% of what a normal college class would be), a lot of the stuff is watered down and the class isn’t as hard as it can be because of the caliber of students there.</p>