<p>They're my top two choices right now and I'm trying to decide if I should ED to one of them and if I do, which one I should.</p>
<p>Could you tell us more about yourself and what you’re looking for in a college? Swat and Haverford have lots of similarities and some differences, but we don’t even know where to start with what to tell you if we don’t know what’s important to you.</p>
<p>I think the biggest difference between Swat and Haverford is Haverford’s relationship with Bryn Mawr. The latter two are closer geographically so it’s easier to take classes from either college. If you include Bryn Mawr’s graduate students, you are talking about a combined “Bi-Co” community of nearly 3,000 students.</p>
<p>I actually have this same question. A little bit about myself…
African American Female
Sports: Field Hockey, Horseback Riding
Possible Majors/Interests: International Relations, Economics, Psychology, French
Looking for a college with a good study abroad program, cultural clubs, good athletics, accepting environment–preferably not extremely conservative
Can you tell me more about Swarthmore vs. Haverford now?
Thanks</p>
<p>Swarthmore looks like it has a FANTASTIC abroad program, although I think that, with either of the schools, you can go overseas through one of the consortium’s other colleges. Swarthmore also offers many cultural clubs, especially regarding religion. from what I’ve heard, they’re all very open and welcoming, too!</p>
<p>As far as athletics go, they seem to be a major afterthought in most students’ lives. However, I don’t know that this means the athletic opportunities are necessarily POOR.</p>
<p>In terms of politics… Swarthmore doesn’t sound like it’s very accepting to <em>conservatives</em>, so (assuming you’re liberal, based on what you’ve written) YOU would be welcomed there… as far as other people go…</p>
<p>I don’t really know that much about Haverford, but this is my two cents on Swarthmore!</p>
<p>Well, as a whole I believe that more businesses recruit at Swarthmore (along with Williams and Amherst, the HYP of Liberal Arts Colleges). So, if you’re looking of getting a job out of graduation, then Swarthmore will probably have a greater opportunity. Although both are a mere 10 miles from Phili, one of the top cities to begin a career in. </p>
<p>Swarthmore will also have better financial aid. It’s loan free for four years, and I think Haverford is loan free only for your first year. Both are need blind.</p>
<p>actually, according to a very old (2003) Kaplan’s college guide, more companies recruit at Haverford than Swarthmore.</p>
<p>Haverford has the infamous Honor Code. Swarthmore does not.
Swarthmore has Honors program. A good choice for anyone who plans to go for PhD later…
Swarthmore is somewhat harder to get into (though there are some students who get accepted to S, and not to H)
Haverford is more “main stream”, Swarthmore is more “quirky”.
Swarthmore has more money to spend on students, and usually better fin aid.
If you are seriously considering these two schools for ED, you should definitely visit both when school is in session. Sit on classes, talk to current students, spend a night in the dorms, and see which one feels right to you.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>That’s overstating things a bit. 40 percent of the student body participates in varsity, club and intramural sports. 20 percent participate in varsity intercollegiate athletics. Swarthmore has had 263 athletes honored as All-Americans. 17 Swarthmore Athletes have been named Academic All-Americans. 17 Swarthmore student-athletes have been Rhodes Scholars, including Caitlin Mullarkey in 2008.</p>
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</p>
<p>No, poor really isn’t the word. Swarthmore Men’s Soccer took the conference championship last year (2008), and made it to the NCAA sectional semifinals, too. Swarthmore Women’s Soccer has won the ECAC South Region Championship for the last two years running. Both teams are nationally ranked in DIII. Women’s Swimming has won the Centennial Conference championship twice since 2002, with five swimmers earning All-America status since 2000. Women’s Basketball qualified for postseason play four times since 2000, including a run to the NCAA Championships in 2001. The Men’s Tennis team has been National Champions four times, and has competed in the NCAA national championship tournament in 31 of the past 34 years. Women’s Tennis has won the Centennial Conference four times since 2001 and has competed in the NCAA championships each year since 2003. </p>
<p>Haverford has great athletics, too.</p>
<p>Overall, Haverford’s athletic teams have been significantly more successful than Swarthmore’s in recent years. Of course, results vary by team; for example, neither school has been particularly successful in field hockey lately.</p>
<p>NACDA ranks schools annually based on their overall performance in the NCAA playoffs (this excludes non-NCAA teams, like Haverford cricket). Over the past five years, Haverford has been consistently ranked at #51 to #72 in NCAA Division III. Swarthmore’s highest ranking over this time was #129.</p>
<p>Neither school is comparable to the most athletically focused northeastern LACs, like Williams, Middlebury, or Amherst, which regularly finish in the top 10 of the NACDA DIII rankings.</p>
<p>To understand Haverford you should watch these admissions videos: [Haverford</a> College Office of Admission: Admission Videos](<a href=“http://www.haverford.edu/admission/videos/]Haverford”>http://www.haverford.edu/admission/videos/)</p>
<p>IMO the people at Swarthmore are smarter and more interesting. If that’s important to you, then you should choose Swarthmore. If you’re looking for easier classes and a more generic college experience, go with Haverford. Haverford also has a better location, by far, and more truck with other nearby colleges and universities. Swarthmore’s location just plain sucks, IYAM.</p>
<p>
Ohhh-kay… hmmm…</p>
<p>Some statistical comparisons (from 2008):</p>
<p>White US students
55.2% Swarthmore
68.5% Haverford</p>
<p>US minority students and internationals
44.8% Swarthmore
31.5% Haverford</p>
<p>Per student endowment
$968,868 Swarthmore
$424,518 Haverford</p>
<p>Per student spending
$81,350 Swarthmore
$63,508 Haverford</p>
<p>Average price paid (tuition, room, board) per student
$32,252 Swarthmore
$34,493 Haverford</p>
<p>Percentage of graduates getting a PhD</p>
<p>
Academic field: ALL </p>
<p>PhDs and Doctoral Degrees:
ten years (1994 to 2003) from NSF database</p>
<p>Number of Undergraduates:
ten years (1989 to 1998) from IPEDS database </p>
<p>Note: Does not include colleges with less than 1000 graduates over the ten year period
Note: Includes all NSF doctoral degrees inc. PhD, Divinity, etc., but not M.D. or Law. </p>
<p>1 35.8% California Institute of Technology<br>
2 ** 24.7% Harvey Mudd College **
3 ** 21.1% Swarthmore College **
4 ** 19.9% Reed College **
5 18.3% Massachusetts Institute of Technology<br>
6 ** 16.8% Carleton College **
7 ** 15.8% Bryn Mawr College **
8 ** 15.7% Oberlin College **
9 15.3% University of Chicago<br>
10 14.5% Yale University
11 14.3% Princeton University<br>
12 14.3% Harvard University<br>
13 ** 14.1% Grinnell College **
14 ** 13.8% Haverford College **
15 ** 13.8% Pomona College **
16 13.1% Rice University
17 ** 12.7% Williams College **
18 ** 12.4% Amherst College **
19 11.4% Stanford University
20 ** 11.3% Kalamazoo College **
21 ** 11.0% Wesleyan University **
22 ** 10.6% St John's College (both campus) **
23 10.6% Brown University<br>
24 ** 10.4% Wellesley College **
25 ** 10.0% Earlham College **
26 ** 9.6% Beloit College **
27 ** 9.5% Lawrence University **
28 ** 9.3% Macalester College **
29 9.0% Cornell University, All Campuses<br>
30 ** 9.0% Bowdoin College **
31 ** 8.9% Mount Holyoke College **
32 ** 8.9% Smith College **
33 ** 8.8% Vassar College **
34 8.7% Case Western Reserve University
35 8.7% Johns Hopkins University<br>
36 ** 8.7% St Olaf College **
37 ** 8.7% Hendrix College **
38 ** 8.6% Hampshire College **
39 8.5% Trinity University<br>
40 ** 8.5% Knox College **
41 8.5% Duke University
42 ** 8.4% Occidental College **
43 8.3% University of Rochester
44 ** 8.3% College of Wooster **
45 ** 8.3% Barnard College **
46 ** 8.2% Bennington College **
47 8.1% Columbia University in the City of New York
48 ** 8.0% Whitman College **
49 7.9% University of California-Berkeley<br>
50 7.9% College of William and Mary
51 7.8% Carnegie Mellon University<br>
52 7.8% New Mexico Institute of Mining and Technology<br>
53 7.7% Brandeis University
54 7.6% Dartmouth College<br>
55 ** 7.5% Wabash College **
56 ** 7.5% Bates College **
57 ** 7.5% Davidson College **
58 7.2% Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute<br>
59 ** 7.2% Franklin and Marshall College **
60 7.1% Fisk University
61 ** 7.1% Wheaton College (Wheaton, IL) **
62 6.8% University of California-San Francisco<br>
63 ** 6.8% Allegheny College **
64 ** 6.6% Furman University **
65 6.5% University of Pennsylvania<br>
66 6.5% Washington University<br>
67 ** 6.5% Bard College **
68 6.4% Northwestern Univ<br>
69 6.4% Rhodes College<br>
70 ** 6.3% Agnes Scott College **
71 ** 6.3% Spelman College **
72 6.2% Antioch University, All Campuses<br>
73 ** 6.2% Kenyon College **
74 6.2% University of Dallas<br>
75 6.1% Ripon College<br>
76 ** 6.1% Colorado College **
77 ** 6.1% Bethel College (North Newton, KS) **
78 ** 6.0% Hamilton College **
79 ** 6.0% Goshen College **
80 ** 6.0% Middlebury College **
81 ** 6.0% Erskine College **
82 ** 5.9% University of the South **
83 5.8% University of Michigan at Ann Arbor
84 5.8% Drew University
85 5.8% Wake Forest University<br>
86 ** 5.8% Tougaloo College **
87 ** 5.8% Goucher College **
88 ** 5.7% Chatham College **
89 5.7% Cooper Union<br>
90 5.7% Alfred University, Main Campus<br>
91 5.7% Tufts University<br>
92 5.6% University of California-Santa Cruz
93 5.6% Colgate University<br>
94 ** 5.5% Colby College **
95 5.4% Bucknell University
96 5.4% Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology
97 5.4% Concordia Teachers College<br>
98 5.4% University of Virginia, Main Campus
99 ** 5.3% Sarah Lawrence College **
100 5.3% Southwestern University
</p>
<p>Thanks for the feedback everyone! I’ve visited both schools twice and I think they are both gorgeous and places I could fit into. Maybe I’ll understand it better if I spend a weekend at both, sitting in on classes and talking to students.</p>
<p>Spic&Span:</p>
<p>Two specific responses to your questions:</p>
<p>1) Swarthmore’s list of approved foreign study progams reads like a Who’s Who of the best study abroad programs in the world. Swarthmore runs a number of its own programs including some interesting places: France, Northern Ireland, Poland, and Ghana – however, I don’t really think that is anywhere near as important as having pre-approval for the hundreds of great programs out there. Williams also has a very strong list of approved programs – very similar to Swarthmore’s. Swarthmore’s study abroad deal is that you pay whatever you were paying at Swarthmore (minus financial aid). Swarthmore writes the check for your study abroad and sends you a check to cover airfare and walking around money. Here’s a quick test: Does a College already have pre-approval for the SIT and IHP programs? Hamilton in Spain? Associated Colleges in Kyoto? ICS in Rome?</p>
<p>2) Assuming that your parents were among the trailblazers of diversification at colleges in the United States, you might talk to them about their experiences and what has transpired since then. There are two parts to successful diversity: one is enrolling a diverse student body and Swarthmore is a national leader on this front. I believe it is Swarthmore’s second most important priority (after the best possible undergrad academics). The second is diversifying the people who run the school such that it is no longer a “white” school with a diverse student body, but a diverse school at all levels so that all groups feel like stakeholders. This was a major failing at colleges during your parents’ generation and it is still a failing at some schools today. I would recommend clicking through the Meet the Deans pages at Swarthmore to get an idea of how Swarthmore has progressed in this area. Start here and keep clicking “NEXT”</p>
<p>[Swarthmore</a> College :: Deans Office :: Deans Office](<a href=“http://www.swarthmore.edu/deansoffice.xml]Swarthmore”>Division of Student Affairs :: Swarthmore College)</p>
<p>I have been reading the Swarthmore student newspapers for about six years now – since my daughter was applying. I cannot recall a single instance of racial issues on campus or any suggestion that there are any whatsover. The same cannot be said for all “big name” colleges and universities as a quick search of college newspaper archives will quickly show.</p>
<p>ID: I think the diversification of college administration is very impressive. Until the profs and administrators are diverse a school is falling short in providing diversity.</p>
<p>Very cool, indeed.</p>
<p>There’s an interesting twist. The Acting Dean’s mother, Mary Schmidt Campbell (now Dean of the Tisch School of Arts at NYU) was a member of the infamous class of 1969 at Swarthmore. Infamous because the black students occupied the admissions office for a week that culminated with the President of the College dying of a heart attack. It’s known as The Crisis in Swarthmore history, and led to many of the diversity initiatives that have born fruit a generation later. One of the lessons learned was that, to be successful in diversity efforts, students must feel like, and in fact must be, stakeholders in the College, not just visitors.</p>
<p>She was honored at Commencement this year and began her speech remembering her graduation in the same amphitheater 40 years earlier and her vow never to return to the campus. Since then, she has not only returned, but has served on the Board of Managers and seen her son become a member of the faculty, an Associate Dean, and now Acting Dean of the College:</p>
<p>Video and a transcript of her speech is here:
[Swarthmore</a> College :: Commencement 2009 :: Mary Schmidt Campbell '69](<a href=“http://www.swarthmore.edu/x26102.xml]Swarthmore”>Mary Schmidt Campbell '69 :: Past Commencements :: Swarthmore College)</p>
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</p>
<p>Interesting history. We occupied the administration building at Stony Brook in 1969.</p>
<p>That description reminded me of the beautiful Angela Davis.</p>
<p>We occupied the administration building at Stony Brook in 1974 too.</p>