FYI, Beloit will have a student union in a few years:
https://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.beloit.edu/campus/assets/Berkooz_Power_Plant_Reuse.pdf&sa=U&ved=0ahUKEwj4u8_Zys3JAhVQ_WMKHYO0BtwQFggGMAE&client=internal-uds-cse&usg=AFQjCNH8aZDOkz-9Cb9qFxDd07RL-IeinA (it will download from Beloit’s webpage).
OK, at the risk of “really stirring things up” (AmazingBlue) I can offer my opinion re. a comparison of Bard and Lawrence.
We live in New York State and I have two daughters. One is in her third year at Lawrence (dual degree in the con and the college) and the other has recently applied to Lawrence (for same). I have spent a fair amount of time on the Bard campus since a family member used to teach there and I took both my daughters on tours of Bard when they were looking at colleges.
In terms of location, the Hudson Valley, where Bard is located, is beautiful but MUCH more isolated than Appleton/Fox Cities. “California tumbles into the sea/That’ll be the day I go back to Annandale” as the song goes ha ha. Red Hook, Tivoli, Rhinebeck–all quaint villages but not walking distance from the Bard campus and not much happening. It would be a haul (train or car) to get into NYC from Bard. If you didn’t have a car, I think you’d be pretty confined. As mentioned, the Lawrence campus flows right on to College Avenue where there are shops, restaurants, museums, and hotels within walking distance and a short (10 minute) cab or shuttle to the mall and a regional airport. It has been easy for my daughter to travel to New York (via Detroit, Minneapolis, Chicago-lots of options).
In my opinion, the Lawrence campus is cleaner than Bard. The grounds are stunning in the Spring and Fall with pretty landscaping and river views. Even in the snow, it’s picturesque. New football stadium, new media arts facility, spectacular chapel and the student center is lively and bright. We noted lots of smokers on our tours of Bard and a grubby feeling in some of the buildings. Someone I know who teaches at Bard said that the smoking issue has been a turn-off for prospective employees in the past so I guess it was not just us who noticed that.
As mentioned, most students at Lawrence are from the mid-west and the vibe is friendly. To me, it feels like the students are good-natured ,funny and quirky in a way that feels more down to earth than the vibe at Bard. I think the vibe at Bard is more wealthy (some children of celebs), artsy, counter-culture. I joke that I took both my daughters to tour the “trifecta of weird liberal arts colleges” (Bard, Oberlin and Hampshire) and felt that they were all more “out there” than Lawrence.
The music opportunities are terrific at Lawrence and they offer BA, BM and dual degree. There are ensembles that one can audition for and not be a major. There are always student recitals and music events going on on campus and it’s a big part of the spirit at Lawrence. I’d say that Bard is more known in more general terms for the arts…art history and even creative writing I hear are strong there. I think all music majors are required to double major at Bard and the dual degree is relatively new. Bard is known for it’s moderation program–look it up to get a better explanation. Lawrence has Freshmen Studies program (again- a more detailed description can be found on their website).
The president of Bard is a real “character” who has been there a long time. I recall reading something wondering about what will happen at Bard when he retires. Bard is very much Leon’s “baby” and most of the donors are connected to Bard because of him, in my understanding. I don’t think they get a lot of alumnae financial support. At Lawrence, the president is relatively new (2013) but very effective and seems to be well liked. He went to Vassar so he’s an east coast guy; he worked at Columbia and Princeton prior to coming to Lawrence so he’s no slouch. Lawrence offers nice merit scholarships and great need based aid and has a campaign going to meet full need; they have gotten a lot of big donations lately. The cost of Bard is higher in general; I don’t think their aid is as good.
I’d agree that Lawrence is not known on the east coast and that they do take a wider range of students but it’s academically challenging. When my daughter graduated HS as salutatorian and announced at events that she was attending Lawrence, the sound of crickets was heard in the room; one lone “woo hoo” from the top science teacher from the mid-west. I couldn’t really say how well Bard is known off the east coast…but I’d guess that students who are looking into either Bard or Lawrence are not caught up in name brand recognition.
Our orthopedic surgeon told me “my family is all Northwestern for generations” but his sister went to Lawrence. He could not speak highly enough of it. He told my DD that Lawrence is the kind of school that helps you decide what you want to do and then excel at it. His sister went in as a Journalism major and came out with a degree in biochemistry and went on to be a professor. Another friend who was a college counselor at a big HS near us really likes Lawrence. Midwest folk seem to really be proud of it.
Having grown up in another part of the country I know the sound of “crickets” when you mention a non regional school.
haha I love it! My DD also applied to Oberlin because of the science but I think she’s not quite “out there” enough to fit in.
People in the West who are not knowledgeable about such things hear “Bard” and think it’s Barnard, and they don’t know much about Barnard either.
People confuse Wellesley and Wesleyan all the time.
People hear Middlebury and have no clue what you’re talking about.
Williams College? Is that a junior college? Amherst has name recognition among the clueless … I don’t know why, but it does.
Mount Holyoke? Is that in the North Cascades?
Claremont Mc-what???
Penn? They’ll never be the same without Paterno.
Bates? People in the West are more likely to think that’s the trade/technical college in Phoenix than an elite LAC.
Speaking of LACs, people hear that and assume you’re going off to some place to smoke pot, become a hippy and read poetry. Use the words “physics” and liberal arts college in the same sentence and you will confuse a lot of people.
You can do this all day long. The truth is (and this will activate my friends here who think me elitist), a lot of people in this country don’t know **** about much, and the academic pecking order in US higher ed is among the things about which they are clueless.
The Penn example is real for me. My uncle, who thinks Gonzaga University is the top school in Washington state (it isn’t btw), didn’t understand why I’d go all the way back east to attend law school at Penn State. Doesn’t the UW have a law school? If I have really good grades, why wouldn’t I go to law school at Gonzaga (the least selective of the LSs in Washington)? He honestly just doesn’t know that there is a University of Pennsylvania and that it’s an Ivy League School. He knows Penn State, Villanova, Temple and Pitt. That’s it. Why do you think that is? Simple - sports. He doesn’t know about, or care about, Haverford, Bryn Mawr, Swarthmore, Carnegie Mellon or anything else in PA. Same for every other state in the union.
@MiddleburyDad2 The sports thing is so right. I live in NC and folks here HAVE heard of Gonzaga—basketball. And Butler My D17 is applying to Reed and Lewis and Clark, and nobody has heard of either. She also visited Bryn Mawr and Haverford–same blank looks. All sports, except for a few like MIT or NYU or Chicago. Almost everybody we know is sending their kids to in-state public schools; fine for many, but few consider how underfunded these schools really are. They likely think we are crazy to send our daughter to the Pacific Northwest. As if going to school in different region cannot be part of the education.
BTW, regarding this original thread, we just tonight attended a CTCL event in Chapel Hill. D19 was impressed by Lawrence, Kalamazoo, and St Olaf. Seems more grads would look to the Midwest. Great schools, with reasonable room and board compared to Northeast and West Coast.