The best study abroad programs my DD did (of the 6 she did) were both arranged outside of school. She did one after college graduation and one after grad school graduation. While she did socialize with other int’l students, the homestays and authentic experiences really made a huge difference. Her language gains and appreciation for the cultures were huge. She now plans to return to both countries for work at some point. I highly recommend the “sideways” route as well.
Yes, there were plenty of those ones available. The competitive program (300+ apps for 24 spots) was part of the university, taught by university profs, and all classes were for university credit. The result was a certificate or minor awarded by the university. My D did not learn a foreign language or immerse herself in the local culture beyond typical tourist stuff. She did have a great time and matured/grew a lot.
The value of the program was the professors were the best at the university plus a few were visiting scholars from other universities. There were class excursions and dinners that allowed my D to make connections she normally would not have made. Those connections led to better ECs and introductions to employers. These advantages are similar to what others have described for the selective clubs.
We’re very happy that our D went on the trip and experienced new things and learned subjects not part of the normal plan, but I wish the experience was open to everyone.
Thanks for starting this thread. My son was surprised to find out how many different types of clubs (not just IB/consulting clubs) at Brown are competitive to join. This was something we had not even considered - we thought one of the wonderful things about a place like Brown would be all the opportunities to explore lots of things. He was just looking at clubs as a way to meet people and try different things, but we have been surprised (and saddened) that you have to compete or be selected to even try new things - this to me totally undermines the experience i want for my kids at college, and is very different from the experience i had 25 years ago.
I expect my kids to have to apply for jobs, but not for ECs in college. (Seats in the classes they want shouldn’t be hard to get either, as long as prerequisites are met.)
College is such a great time try new things—for fun and to step outside your comfort zone. I played intramural soccer in college, and loved it, despite having no previous experience. I learned enough so that when they needed a coach for my daughter’s soccer team, my hand went up. I ended up running the town’s rec league for ten years, and also using my college Spanish to reach out to our Hispanic community with scholarships…One of the best experiences of my life.
Are private colleges or those with the most competitive admissions more likely to have exclusive clubs/orgs?
Even with a cappella at my D’s college, there are so many different groups, singers don’t get shut out. As far as service orgs, etc. it’s like the real world—the more the merrier. In order to become part of community organizations and non-profit groups in the places I’ve lived, just keep showing up and volunteering your time. Pretty soon, you’re running the place if that’s the commitment you want. Community theater, friends of the library, historic society, road runners, faith groups, beautification, mentoring, food pantries, masters swimming, museum docents, Girl Scout leaders, local government—why would college groups be different? Especially since colleges have the funds and facilities to provide.
Perhaps the difference is that rarely is the school itself providing the activity ( with exceptions like orchestra, and sports I assume); the activity is provided by other students, and will grow or recede as student interest dictates. The school might provide activity space and nominal funding for most of these activities, but they are run by students for the benefit of other students. The school does not supervise or attend the activity; unlike high school, there is no advisor and likely no paid staff.
If the difference is the students, then I would like to avoid any colleges where the students pull up the ladder as soon as they make it into the treehouse.
Thank you for starting a non-IB thread to address the competitive club question. DD26 is a freshman at Cornell - there are a wide range of clubs that require some version of try-outs (club sports, dance, accapella, comedy groups) as you’d expect given there is expectations of a level of playing or performance skill. There are also a number of business focused clubs with extensive interviews and coffee meet-ups. (covered already). Greek life has its own process which is spring rush.
Some clubs like being a Tour Guide for the school are actually paid positions so naturally have an interview process. However, there are many service oriented clubs and social clubs that are not competitive and the process to join is pretty easy. Also, it is pretty easy to start a club too if you don’t find what you want or have trouble getting in to a numbers limited club.
I think DD was initially surprised having to interview for some clubs, but it helped narrow her list too and forced her to focus where she really wants to spend her time. She used her interviews to interview each club itself and the students involved. So, it can be valuable both ways.
Yes, even volunteer clubs are competitive at BC. Freshman year, DD applied to join a club that does volunteer work in local hospitals and was rejected. Some of her friends had similar experiences.
Competitive to get into a club? Most clubs are not competitive, just show up and pay. My DD is in a dance club that auditions, I guess that could be defined as competitive. Honor Societies/fraternities have requirements, but in most cases, if you meet the requirements you are in. I guess depending on your academic performance those can be competitive. But I am very sure this would be very college specific. A competitive club at one school, may not be competitive at another.
My daughter has her interview at the Daily Bruin today. This is after an extensive, 10-page interview application response that included 2 story pitches, questions about her schedule, work ethic, writing approach, writing samples, etc. I really hope she makes it—but if not, she can try again next quarter.
I remember discussing the various newspaper application options with the group on CC in the spring, when she was deciding between UCLA, Kenyon and Smith. I know she’d already be writing for the papers at Kenyon and Smith, as both had papers that seemed more casual than her high school paper. At the time, that was a turn off to her. She thought it showed a lack of investment and that students didn’t care much about the paper. I can’t help but wonder if she’d have been happy, though, being able to walk on and contribute from day one.
On the other hand, she’s getting interview and application experience. And if she makes it, I think she’ll learn a ton from working on a daily. And she’s found the Bruin Book Club, Listening Club, and Film Society that seem to be open to all. She she will find like-minded people somehow, some way.
Since UCLA is much larger than Kenyon or Smith, it is not surprising that getting onto the Daily Bruin is more difficult than getting onto the newspapers at Kenyon or Smith, even if the Daily Bruin is somewhat larger.
For sure. No one is surprised that the Daily Bruin is competitive and she knew that going in. I’m only reflecting that the competition is stressful and she may have enjoyed being able to walk on and contribute straight away. But she loves ucla for many reasons and she’ll find a way to write, even if it’s not for the Daily Bruin.
Club competition is something I didn’t really understand when we were making the decision—it’s one thing to ponder it abstractly, and another to experience it when you’re on campus. But she’s resilient and will be fine. Fingers crossed she gets chosen!
No, I don’t think so. This occurs at a wide range of colleges. However, just as in your examples, most of these colleges also have different levels, with some being non-competitive. So it may be very hard to participate/get a lead in the top level theater group or the premier a capella group, but there are easier theater groups and singing groups to join. Similar for service groups, and some business groups and engineering groups, etc. For people who just want to participate, it should not be difficult. But if people care about being in the premier group, it may be competitive.
Your example of intramural soccer is a great one. Intramurals are very fun and I’m pretty sure all the schools we are talking about have intramural sports. They tend to not be competitive, and anyone can join. That remains the case in 2022, at all of these schools. But clearly very competitive to be varsity, and can be quite competitive to be club depending on the school/sport, but not usually competitive to do intramural.
So I think kids definitely still have the ability to try new things at all schools. Trouble comes when the kids are very focused on joining the premier level group and they don’t make it.
We toured colleges with “world famous” singing groups, as in the groups tour Europe every summer. Those are competitive- not just having a great voice, but having the “right” voice, depending on their needs. Plus sight-reading music- nobody has time to teach the newbie. But then there were also “just show up” madrigals groups, funky a-capella teams of all types (sing be-bop, sing “golden oldies”), folk music troupes, groups devoted to a certain country or region, etc. AND-- singers to accompany the U’s orchestra for major chorale works (those were competitive), singers for musical theater (competitive), but also singers who showed up every Monday night for the Morris Dance groups or to accompany the country music honky tonk line dancers. So net net- if you love to sing, there will be a place for you even if you aren’t in Prague at an all expenses paid musical festival during Spring break.
Yeah, my son (DD’s older brother) is currently a senior at Tufts. I don’t know that I would go so far as to call BC cutthroat, but there is definitely more of a competitive “Type A" vibe there compared to Tufts – especially among the CSOM kids. Not that the BC students are any smarter or more accomplished than the students at Tufts. But obviously, very different schools.