Competitive applications before college admissions - seeking advice

Parents Forum
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My daughter is only a sophomore, so I’m not sure I have a ton of sage advice, but she did apply to a selective summer program this year, so I know the angst of the process and watching and waiting to find out about the outcome. My DD ended up getting lucky and got selected, but we spent a ton of time talking about her options if she didn’t get selected - how else could she pursue the language she was interested in, what else could she do if she decided to reapply, and what else she could do with her summer if she stayed (travel, hang with friends, do her swim season, etc.). Both of my kids are super involved in sports, performing arts, and leadership and both have failed to win a race, get a part, or win an election a ton of times which I know has helped them not get too invested in long shot opportunities. Sometimes these selective summer programs are even tougher for kids who are young for their grade (my DD has been waiting for 12-15 months to be old enough to apply to NSLI-Y), so maybe reminding her of that will help too.

Overall, I think everyone has given you some great advice about crafting her own unique summer experience based on her interests, but I also think working with her to better deal with disappointment will be a great life skill for her in the future. I know from experience that perspective can be tough if your DD is lucky enough that her life has been pretty loss-free and easy-going to now. While I grew up without money, I also grew up without extreme loss or tragedy and had a pretty blessed life, so it took me a while to develop resilience in my teens/young adult years. My kids, on the other hand, lost their dad (my husband) at young ages (9 & 12) and they seem to have the perspective of full grown adults. They just know nothing is ever that bad and in some ways, it makes it easier for them to try for things that are long shots for them. Obviously, perspective comes with time (or experience in the case of my kids), but I wish that I had the perspective my kids have now when I was a teen.

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If this process is shaking her confidence move on. I actually think schools can be just as impressed if not more so by kids who find things in their own community to work on to stand out. Volunteer somewhere for the summer in an area interest, write a musical to be performed in a garage, make your own summer reading list, etc etc etc. Even good old fashioned typical high school jobs can be good. If she is interested in being an exchange student, there are many programs and ways out there to make that happen. Or just ignore all that and have a relaxing summer if that’s what speaks to her right now. I get feeling like you need to keep a smart kid engaged. My oldest for sure is profoundly gifted, my 2nd one isn’t far behind. But that doesn’t necessarily equate maturity or focus or the ability to let rejection roll off your back. It may be different in a couple years.

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This isn’t the same, but there are some similarities. My girls have been involved with the theater for many years. One started as an 8yo. We’ve had many, many discussions about how there are many more talented and qualified actors for a part than there are parts available. They have had to learn not to take rejections personally and to take small parts/ensemble parts and make them their own. I’m not going to say that they don’t get disappointed or frustrated. They do and that’s okay, but if they want to continue with their craft then they have to resign themselves for more disappointments than successes.
If your DD is unable to separate her sense of self-worth from her admittance to these programs that are a long shot (at best) then she needs to step back for now. It’s very hard to get to a place where the decisions aren’t taken personally.

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Since you are in CA, have you looked into some of the UC summer programs? D will be attending a UCSD course this summer and some of their programs are more selective and rigorous than others (e.g. COSMOS).

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Check out the program National History Day. It’s a competition where the student does research and develops a presentation. The research is done outside of school time. Because there are levels for different ages, it might suit your daughter’s need for challenge and rigor while also being age-appropriate.

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Thanks for everyone’s responses. Again, I wanted to clarify, I am not looking at these exclusive summer programs as a way to build a resume, I just think D would have the time of her life attending one of them. For example, She wouldn’t apply to a prestigious Princeton diplomats program even though it might look on her resume, since she has no interest in Japan at the moment.

@oldcmcalum, thanks for sharing, I am sorry for your loss, super excited for your kid (same program my sophomore dreamed about). You are right, my D had a pretty sheltered life so far, with the biggest loss in her life having to leave competitive swimmming at the age of 10 after reaching Junior Olympics because of foctor’s advice. She still swims recreationally, just not as much as she’d swim competitively, and even less so using her favorite butterfly. Maybe she came off as immature in her application, but she will try again next year. We did discuss alternatives that achieve the same goals. I was against her spending the summer with my mother-in-law - she might improve her language, but she would be bored to death with the small town and limited independence she’d have over there (D biked to school alone since she was 8, my M-I-L walked my niece to school till she was 15, but then our area is definitely safer). D was against other exchange programs to that country, called them glorified vacations that won’t really give her the sense of the country.

@intparent, thanks, I have not heard of Davidson THINK, will look into that.

@socaldad2002, frankly, haven’t looked into those. I only mentioned Stanford summer institute and Mock Trial programs, but they cost thousands of dollars and she turned them down because “I don’t want to spend so much of your money, and if it was my money to spend, I’d rather keep it for grad school”.

She will be ok, I am sure, and next year I will follow her cue on how many programs she wants to apply to. I regret having her jump a grade, being an extra year older and mature when getting to HS would definitely help me as her mom, but she is confident this was the right decision for her.

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What kind of grad school might she consider? Some you pay for, but if she is a PhD student (as my D now is), they pay her. So her financial argument might not make sense, although of course she may not know yet.

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I think your daughter can have the time of her life doing something OTHER than elite, competitive summer programs.

One of my kids is a musician. Summers after 8, 9, 10 grade, he went to an auditioned music camp…which had an emphasis on music…but also had regular camp recreation options (except no sports where one could get injured). After grades 11 and 12, he went to BUTI Boston University Tanglewood Institute…with a TEENY scholarship. And then two summers at Eastern Music Festival.

Then a summer where he didn’t get accepted to ANY of the festivals he auditioned for. So he took a workshop at a university, and played in a summer theater orchestra.

Then he spent a summer at Aspen.

It’s a process…and really…I’m going to guess that MOST 14 year olds aren’t going to the elite programs out of the gate.

I guess I wonder why she can’t have the time of her life learning how to sail, or play ultimate frisbee, or go to ice cream socials and the like…which would be offered at almost any overnight camp.

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Be careful of burnout!

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@intparent, at the moment her dream grad school is GT SFS (school of foreign service), so that she can one day work in the country my H and I are from. I think she romanticizes it, and a semester abroad while an undergrad might cure that affection, but it might only reinforce her current dreams - I try to keep my opinion to myself and let her choose her own path. I totally agree, she may change her mind and end up doing a PhD in history, but she could also decide on a law school, at this point the only things I can rule out for sure are medical school and military academy :slight_smile:

@thumper1, I agree, she can have a time of her life even without leaving home, but so far her efforts to get a volunteer position at a place she is passionate about have been fruitless, again most likely due to her age. I am not sure I understand your condescension about 14-year old participating in a program she would be as qualified as any other sophomore and would get as much out of. I mentioned “eliteness” only to draw similarity between program’s low admission rates and elite colleges low admission rates.

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Why not target GT SFS for undergrad? A reach for all, but she needs a few of those on her list.

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Where was I condescending?

I just think…she is a 14 year old first and foremost…and sometimes folks forget that doing 14 year old things aren’t a bad thing. Fosters good social skills, and interactions. And can be lots of fun as well.

She needs to find something that is open to 14 year olds…and many places just aren’t. And some places that are…she will be competing with older students for the same spots.

There are many options out there for kids her age…but they might not be “programs”. They might be plain old things like summer camps, or babysitting, or mowing lawns, or Taking music or dance lessons, or taking summer tennis lessons, or whatever.

Some community colleges have summer programs for HS students. Some four year schools run programs as well…not competitive, but pay as you go.

My point is…the competitive programs are…competitive. And sometimes it takes a few application times to get into one.

Broaden your search. Talk to friends. Maybe someone needs a summer volunteer in their law office for answering phones. Call your local library…maybe they could use a volunteer.

Or as noted…can your kiddo start her own program?

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It is hard for a 14 year old to get a volunteer job for something she is “passionate” about- but guess what- kids volunteer every single day for things they are NOT passionate about, and build the skills that make them valuable to the causes and organizations they DO want to work for.

Don’t lose sight of this. Candystriping at the local hospital is not everyone’s cup of tea, but the summer after that, when your kid applies for a more interesting job at the hospital, there will be staff who can vouch for her work ethic, good attitude, ability to go the extra mile. Being an aide at the local library for the toddler’s program may not be up your D’s alley, but next summer when the library is looking for someone to “apprentice” to an archivist cataloging epehmera, the librarians will already know your D and want to recommend her. And doing data entry for a local charity may sound dull as can be, but working with the two or three major software packages which not-for-profits use is fantastic experience for down the line.

My kids volunteered for stuff they loved and stuff they could barely tolerate. But nobody is looking to a 14 year old to negotiate with North Korea… getting the skills to make a career in the foreign service a reality involves LOTS of baby steps.

Is your D good with a video camera? Doing oral histories with family members, elderly folks in the community, etc. is terrific experience. And then learning to edit-- very valuable skill.

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You are asking about elite summer program admissions (and correlation with elite college admissions).

Some of us are sort of answering outside the box of your original question. A lot of intellectual, social and emotional growth can happen without ever going near a summer program and a gifted kid can find challenges in the back yard, seriously.

When I was 14 I created my own day camp for 7-8 year-olds. I wasn’t that much of a go-getter but a parent suggested it to me. I had a blast and made a little money.

If a kid volunteers, as opposed to looking for money, there are countless ways to go.

And build in some time to sit on the porch- if you have one- to read a book or see a friend.

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There are summer programs for every interest and many are not particularly hard to get into. Some are free, some have minimal cost, some are quite expensive. My D loved Summer@Brown, the classes she took there really honed her interests and basically led to her college major. Pricey but with excellent need-based financial aid. If she’s hoping to do one, a strategy of safety-match-reach can work well, with finances taken into consideration if necessary,

It seems like your D is interested in a program abroad. If I’m reading that right, check with your local Rotary. Lots of interesting exchange programs that are essentially free, or just air/spending money. They are competitive, but not NSLI-level competitive. In our small community a couple of kids go every year, my niece was one. Minimum age is 15. https://www.rotary.org/en/our-programs/youth-exchanges For future reference, some are for gap years which as a younger student, your D might consider before college.

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@compmom, I am sorry for misunderstanding, I wasn’t asking for correlation between elite summer programs and elite admissions, I was asking for advice from parents who had experience with kids applying to elite colleges knowing the odds are so low. Still appreciate getting all the advice above.

As for the summer camp, my D’s first question would be “is this legal? Don’t you need a license for that?” But I get what you are saying and hope she comes up with something fun and out of the box.

@OHMomof2, thanks, D looked into rotary, but they don’t have programs in the countries she is interested in, and while it may turn out to be an exciting opportunity, I see no reason to do it “just because”.

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Such good advice here. We look at kiddos and think about what they need. Usually in the Summers it is a combo of downtime, developing an interest and doing things you love. The only caveat is not sitting around on a cell phone. For us, it is usually building out social skills as the kids are busy during the year and do lots of in school and extra activities.
One of my kids needs a lot more push but then is fine. The other would go anywhere and do anything. This Summer I really want them to chose more of what they want. It’s hard because good programs fill up early but I am taking more of a backseat than last year where I signed them up for everything and they didn’t have enough down time.
Do I want them to build a business? Do life changing social service programs and create value in the world during June, July and August ? Yes, but I think balance is the key to life so I am going to do the hardest thing I can, wait and let them decide what they want to do.

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At 14 I would see if your local Community College has any 'camps" that expose them to various future areas of interest…or be a Counselor in Training at a Camp.

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@typiCAmom It looks like this discussion died down a week or so ago, but I have a quick suggestion if your daughter is still looking for a summer option for language learning! If she wants to apply to NSLI-Y but isn’t eligible yet, I’ve heard great things about the STARTALK programs, which are fully funded language programs (unless it’s residential) during the summer in almost all of the NSLI-Y languages and a few more. They take place throughout the US, and I’ve heard great things about them. Plus, many STARTALK alumni go on to be NSLI-Y participants, so applying for a program could be helpful if your daughter plans on applying to NSLI-Y next year. Here’s the link:

https://startalk.umd.edu/public/