Competitive applications before college admissions - seeking advice

Parents Forum
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I know most parents here are focused on college admissions, and there are specific places on this forum for scholarships and summer programs, but I thought I’d seek some more general advice.

Earlier in the year, DD applied for a pretty competitive (10%admission) summer program she dreamed about for a couple of years. Didn’t get even past first round, was rejected, devastated, but will apply again next year. Yesterday got rejected by another summer program. I can see her self-confidence plummeting - when I mentioned yet another summer program with application deadline fast approaching, she asked “what’s the point, I am not good enough anyway.” Since I didn’t want to draw similarities to college admissions, I talked about relationships - how best couples are not about stats/popularity, but about fit, common interests, etc. She wasn’t convinced.

Next year she’d be eligible to apply for a lot more “elite” summer programs (free, selective, high-regarded, very competitive) and scholarships, with some acceptance rates as low as HYPS, and I understand she might be rejected from all of them. If it was me, I would apply anyway, just because not applying means 100% of not being admitted, but I also won’t take those rejections personally. She is a different person - mainly, a teenager, insecure and thus vulnerable. She would apply if I encourage her, and spend endless hours perfecting her essays, etc., but rejection will be painful. And if I don’t encourage her, she will apply (or rather, apply again) to only one program. She may be miserable, but won’t feel her entire first semester was “wasted” and she won’t feel like “everyone thinks I am not good enough”.

So just looking for some advice - what would you do? To make a parallel with college admissions, do you encourage your kids to apply to several elites (knowing your kid has top stats but no hooks or exceptional EC’s) or let him/her alone to apply to only one dream school? Assumptions that make it a bad comparison (1) cost is not an issue in those decisions; (2) there is no question that a selective scholarship or summer program are much better than an alternative of not getting a scholarship or working at a local retail store; (3) in most cases, getting or not getting a certain scholarship or summer program opportunity won’t determine the rest of your life, so is it worth all the time spent, stress, and heartbreak?

Thanks in advance!

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@typiCAmom You know, their childhood is so short. What does she want to do? What is she passionate about? I can’t believe it is only a choice between an elite program or retail work.

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@gearmom, her ideal summer job is a whole another topic. Without going into many details, the places she wants to volunteer only want college students. One person told her it’s about liability of having a 14-year old vs. 18-year old (DD skipped a grade), but who knows what the real reason is. Again, since it at least appears to my DD that her dream summer opportunity is out of reach to ALL 14-year olds, she doesn’t feel as rejected…

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@typiCAmom Think outside the box. Have her create her own opportunities. Her age will likely trip her up. I think that is correct. What do she want to do? What is she passionate about?

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@gearmom, I am a bit uncomfortable sharing publicly, will pm you. It’s nothing embarrassing, moreover, I couldn’t be more proud, just for privacy sake. Thanks!

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For college admissions, we all make sure that our kids apply to some safeties.

So I think the problem for your daugher is that she is applying for highly selective programs. If admission rate is under 10%, then odds are the position will go to someone else.

Are there some less competitive summer programs she could be applying to?

Also… just from experience – trying to get a summer job in retail at age 14 or 15 might be a lot tougher than you think as well. (My daughter spent all summer at age 17 looking for a job, turning in about 40 apps with no luck. Finally one company called her back in November. The next summer, with some retail experience, things went a lot easier. But compared to job-hunting, the college admissions process was a piece of cake).

I just want to add one more note – I accellerated in school, too – and graduated high school & went to college at age 16. Academics were no problem – but in hindsight I can see that my age was a barrier to many opportunities, especially until I at least turned 18. It had a cumulative effect because by the time I got to the age where I was taken seriously, then I was competing against peers who has been able to rack up stronger resumes over the same time frame.

I think your daughter may be making things more difficult by aspiring to programs seeking college (or college-age) students. There are summer opportunities for 14 year olds, and your daughter’s educational achievements might be an advantage if she were looking for positions competing against others the same age. Just because she is a year ahead in school doesn’t mean she has to be ahead of her age cohort in every activity she undertakes.

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Wait, she’s only 14? Goodness, she’s got time. Both my older sons did ZERO “elite” summer programs. Eldest son got into 10/10 colleges including MIT, Caltech, Princeton, etc. Middle son with much weaker stats got into Penn. How did they spend their summers? Doing what they loved.

Here are just a few of the low/no cost things they did during the summers during high school:

  1. Worked as musicians for local theater companies, in weddings, busking, etc.
  2. Teach their instruments (cello teacher, violin teacher)
  3. Work at Mathnasium
  4. Took AoPS classes (for my son who was behind so he could catch up a bit)
  5. Took online community college class
  6. All star baseball, summer baseball and travel baseball
  7. Summer bowling league
  8. Summer local chamber music camps (one of their favorite things to do)
  9. Research at the local state university (eldest son audited for free some upper division physics courses, and he was invited to do research by the prof)
  10. Hung out with friends
  11. Work as a private math and SAT tutor
  12. Draw, create, listen to books on tape, write poetry, hike
  13. Community service on their instruments (playing for fundraisers)

I work as a college consultant and while some of my high achieving students do special summer programs, many of the ones that stand out simply pursue their passions in unusual ways, making their own opportunities. Some kids are very focused on particular bents (my eldest son was all about math and physics) and others are still exploring (middle son was a serious cellist, but had no particular focus other than something creative, so he explored a lot of avenues).

If your daughter is already weary of the “game” of applying to, and getting rejected by, “elite” summer programs, let her try something else. Brainstorm with her; look around your city, county, state for cool ideas for her to serve others, develop a skill or talent, grow in her sport or instrument, or deepen an intellectual pursuit. Lots of great programs out there that aren’t elite and don’t cost a fortune. Sure it takes research, but you might find a hidden gem.

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@sbjdorlo, I need to be able to pin your response some how.

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@calmom, @sbjdorlo, yes, she is looking at local options, too - though as I mentioned those come with caveats. It’s not that she is lured by the “eliteness” of the programs. There are specific reasons why she’d like to participate in certain programs, and of course with scholarships there is no question why they are worth applying. Last summer, when her dream volunteering opportunity never materialized, she took three cc classes, learned to play guitar, did some volunteering teaching little kids our native language, spent time with her friends, etc. Cc classes weren’t challenging for her, and while she enjoyed guitar, reading, friends, etc., it certainly wasn’t as exciting as traveling abroad and improving a language she wants to major in at college. Again, that was her dream program and she will try again. I personally think she would also enjoy a program like TASP, and yes, I believe if she gets in it would be significantly better experience than cc classes, but again, is it worth applying to, given the downsides?

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@sbjdorlo, also, I am not thinking of those competitive summer programs as a leg up college admissions, but rather opportunities of a lifetime that she would cherish forever. Scholarships, on the other hand, would definitely open up a bunch of college opportunities. Is she competitive for those scholarships? I don’t know. When I was in high school, I applied to tens of scholarship and won several of them, including a small one from an Asian association (I was an only white kid who applied on a dare from my Asian friends).

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Are finances a barrier? I think the major programs that coordinate foreign exchanges take students age 15 and over.; they are not highly selective unless the application is for a country that is highly in-demand.

12

It seems you may be dealing with a gifted kid who needs more stimulation than most. I had two kids at Ivies (and one at community college, just as “smart”) and their high school summers were pretty ordinary. They loved the free time to do music, volunteered in a theater or nature preserve or hospital, worked locally, read and went to the beach and relaxed. I think they found challenge pursuing their own agendas, which they preferred to anything provided from the outside so to speak.

It would seem that your daughter might want to wait a couple of years before applying to more programs. The rejections are affecting her self esteem. There are many ways to grow. I understand you want to feed the fire, so to speak, but there is plenty of time.

What grade is she in now? I wouldn’t really mention college until mid-junior year.

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@compmom, I wouldn’t call her gifted, but she is a smart kid who sails through AP Euro and makes fun of the textbook used in class because it presents such a flat view of events she read more in-depth about in historical books. She is in 10th grade and I can’t remember when we started talking about college. Unless she changes her mind, she won’t be applying to any Ivies, at least for undergrad, but by the time she applies, our state schools might have under 10% admission rates, too :wink:

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Too soon for college talk. Why is she applying to summer programs? There are so many things to do in the summer. Free time is really good for young minds :slight_smile:

If you want to consider colleges yourself, in advance, check out Colleges that Change Lives and also “little Ivies.”

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We treated summer programs a lot like college. My kid had reach/elite programs & a couple of “safeties” in her list. She never got into one of the elite ones, but had productive & interesting summers nonetheless. Colleges want to see SOMETHING in the summers. Work, volunteer, program in an area of interest, etc. I’d try to knock the “if I can’t go to elite, I’m not going” idea out of her head right now. It is a very unhelpful attitude when you get to college admissions. My kid ended up at a top college, but had a good range of choices she could have lived with.

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I think you need to be sensitive to your kid. Some kids have the ability to shrug off rejections with nothing more than resentment for the time they put into them. Others are pretty rattled by them.

I fully believe that it’s important for kids to experience failure and Learn how to come back from it. But they also need to be confident in themselves.

Your D may be letting you know that she wants a little success at this point. You might be very helpful to her in having conversations about how she’s processing this.

Ime, summer experiences don’t have an impact on college admissions.

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Just reread. Does she qualify for Davidson THINK? Not sure if the deadline has passed for this year, but it was a great fit for my kid until she got old enough to be considered for more programs.

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My D worked at a summer camp… she was the youngest counselor to ever be color war captain and was chosen for their year-long focus group designed to discuss how to make improvements etc ( and yes this went on her commonapp). She is currently at a top five public university and was accepted to a private school with a 10% acceptance rate. Your D should find what she likes… and rock it!

If D wanted to do elite summer programs I would have supported her decision… but she never brought it up and neither did I. Your daughter is 14… I would let her choose how she wants to spend her summers.

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Young people are in school for 9 months a year and I think it is healthy to do something non-academic in the summers. My kids actually ended up majoring in things they discovered outside of school in the summers. The most important thing at 14, is not achievement or “getting in” but getting to know oneself and exploring interests, making friends, developing as a person. Granted some of these things can happen while going away to a summer program but I wonder if she has other interests that could be explored, including service and work.

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@typiCAmom

You asked if the stress, effort, etc. was worth it. To that, I’d say, “It depends.” No one person can tell you for sure if it was worth it or not. Someone can tell you if it was worth if for their specific kid(s), but that means nada when it comes to YOUR specific kid. You know your daughter. With small odds for admission into super-elite programs, does your daughter have the personality/attitude to understand that a rejection has more to do with overall fit and often nothing to do with whether or not she was “good enough” (especially if she has all the “right” stats)? Right now, from what you write, it seems like she has difficulty with that, so would your daughter be better off at this age not caring about programs with extremely low acceptance rates? Some kids enjoy fighting against the odds and find a thrill in the competitive nature of admissions whether they are accepted or not, and some find the entire process of competitive admissions demoralizing and heartbreaking. It seems from your original post that YOU have exactly the right attitude when it comes to these things, but, from what you write, your daughter has yet to learn the attitude of oh-well-whatever-at-least-I-tried. She might learn that attitude in time, but perhaps not during her teen years.

All that being said, I think it is healthy and necessary for everyone in life to learn how to take rejection and to learn that rejection in no way defines who someone is. That kid who got into MIT/Harvard/Williams/etc. may have just barely squeaked by and is absolutely no better or more intelligent than the thousands of kids who didn’t get into MIT/Harvard/Williams/etc. He didn’t do anything “right,” he did what was right for HIM and it happened to work in his favor in terms of admissions on that day in that moment when the right admin who happened to be in a good mood was reading his application. Therefore, someone with high stats, etc. who doesn’t get in was just as good as the person who did get in…for whatever reason, the particular opportunity for the rejected individual just wasn’t meant to be. Oh well – good thing there are hundreds of other legitimate and wonderful options out there.

If your daughter is really taking these rejections personally and cannot, in spite of your consolations and explanations, feel it in her heart that none of this is a judgment call on whether or not she is “good enough,” (understandable insecurities given the turbulent emotional nature of the teenage years), then maybe it would be best to have her regain confidence by doing something during the summer she feels she is wonderful at that requires no permission/acceptances from anyone else…? That’s just a thought – again, you know your daughter, so maybe have a heart-to-heart with her and see what she would like to do that sparks her inner fire, with no applications or approval needed from anyone. I understand some of these elite programs do offer wonderful opportunities…but other wonderful opportunities can be created locally with some free time and some creativity (projects, volunteer work, whatever your daughter wants to do). Not doing one of the elite programs won’t mean your daughter won’t be able to go to a college that’s right for her, fwiw.