<p>Yup, my S is taking the same strategy that Marian's D did. AP the corresponding SL exams and make sure the potential for getting credit is there.</p>
<p>The combined AP/IB courses also give more opportunities for students <em>not</em> in the IB program to take AP courses. If the AP classes were offered separately from the IB, there would likely not be enough people to fill a class. In fact, this happened with two AP courses at S's school this year. Not enough time for IB kids to take the extra class, and not enough non-IB kids to fill it without them.</p>
<p>It can even make sense to take an AP test on top of an IB HL exam in some instances.</p>
<p>My daughter's college allows students who get a 7 on the IB HL English exam to place out of one semester of its two-semester freshman writing requirement. It also gives the same privilege to students who have a 5 on either of the AP English exams.</p>
<p>My daughter knew that she was not one of the top students in her IB English class and that her chances of getting a 7 on the IB HL exam were low. So she took the AP English Language exam (which is MUCH easier), with no special preparation, to give herself a better chance of getting exampted from that second semester of writing. She got a 5 on the AP test and got her exemption. She only got a 6 on the IB exam.</p>
<p>One of the advantages of going the Early Decision route, as my daughter did, is that you can take tests strategically in this sort of way.</p>
<p>-- predicted grades are generated as a standard aspect of the IB program</p>
<p>-- the process by which they are generated is subjective and/or undisclosed</p>
<p>-- a student can request that external reporting of grades not include any predicted grades</p>
<p>-- suppressing predicted grades may conflict with application requirements for international students applying to US universities.</p>
<p>Question: are US applicants who suppress the predicted grades at a potential disadvantage in admissions? Do any selective US colleges specifically request predicted grades, or are they prediction-optional?</p>
<p>Marian -- Yup, S2 is following that strategy, too. He thought it would be nuts not to have an English score to go w/college apps. My guess is that with this program's IB English, he'll be well prepared to aim for an AP 5. I think he wants to take AP Euro plus the HL Euro, regardless, as that is his thing and he expects he'll do extremely well. (That and Econ are definitely his strongest IB courses.) Bio -- we'll see how he does in the HL course during the year, and he says he'll also take the AP if it looks like that may be the better way to get credit.</p>
<p>Siserune,
I would not recommend to my S that he ask that his projected scores be suppressed. When there are a number of applicants vying for the same school(s), that could be a big red flag. He has been busting his tail and doing his best. He has nothing to hang his head about.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Also, the IB certificate (that which non-diploma students get for taking an IB course) is NOT the same as taking an AP test; it simply indicates that the student took the course, and does not relate to performance in the course nor to retention of the material. If you want your IB student to get college credit for IB courses, they MUST take either the IB or AP exam and get a score acceptable to the college.
[/quote]
I don't believe this is true. I think that if a student is registered for an IB certificate, s/he must take the test in order to receive IB credit. To my mind, this is one of the really good aspects of the program, because it means that students are allowed to show their particular strengths, even if they are not willing or able to do the whole program.</p>
<p>"Examination results are available in early July following the May examination session, and in early January following the November examination session. If requested by the student, results are made available to universities either in electronic format or as a transcript of grades, as appropriate. The results indicate the grade a candidate has been awarded for each subject, including the additional diploma requirements of theory of knowledge and the extended essay. The results also indicate the completion of creativity, action, service (CAS) and total number of points for the diploma, if a diploma has been awarded." </p>
<p>The "if requested by student" seems important. </p>
<hr>
<p>We have to remember that the scores for the last 4 tests will not be in until July and that they also get a regular grade in that class (that will definitely be on the transcript).
I was under the impression that the projected scores referred to the total (out of 45 possible points) score and not to the individual test scores. The required number of points to get the diploma is 24. Your first 2 tests in 11th grade give you an idea of your progress: You get two 6s and you are half way there with 4 more tests and the extended essay (3 points)to add. You get two 3s and you start to worry. I think this is where the "projection" starts.</p>
<p>In any case, schools do look favorably on students that come from an IB Programme.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Students who enroll in individual courses will receive an IB certificate noting the courses they took and the marks they earned.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>That from the IBO's website. My understanding is that students get a certificate regardless of performance; a kid could get a 1 on the exam and still get a certificate. (I've been looking, and have not seen anything that indicates a minimum score is required for a certificate.)</p>
<p>
[quote]
Are students required to take the IB exams?</p>
<p>IB certificate candidates taking all or some IB classes may choose to take exams in IB subjects of their choice or they may have the choice of not taking any IB exams at all. IB Diploma candidates must sit for exams in all 6 subjects in order to qualify for the IB Diploma.</p>
<p>What happens if students decide not to take the IB exams?</p>
<p>Any student who does not take the IB exams will be given a parallel ISP exam. In this case, no IB certificate or IB Diploma will be granted but the student will get an ISP grade. It’s important to note that in order to get college/university credit for IB subjects, the student must sit for IB exams.
<p>Some schools require that everyone in an IB class take the IB exam, regardless of whether the student is a diploma student or not, just as some schools require that everyone in an AP class take the AP exam.</p>
<p>You might be right in that taking the exam is required to receive the certificate; I don't know whether that is an IBO requirement or not. (In thinking about it, I'd bet, given that exams are a revenue stream, that you're correct about the need to take the exam for the certificate!) </p>
<p>I cannot find anything about a minimum score necessary to get the certificate, however. It looks as though the certificate functions as essentially a score report. I'd be happy to be corrected on this point if this is not the case.</p>
<p>Hello, I live in a small, fairly isolated town that is considering bringing in an IB program for all 3 schools. My question is: will colleges look down upon students who choose not to go for the full IB diploma even though one is offered. When looking at Ivy League schools they say they expect a student to take the ‘most rigorous’ degree offered. Our graduates are being accepted at very high caliber schools and I worry that will decrease because many students will not graduate with the full diploma. We have had several IB discussions, and this question never really gets answered. Initially d was going to be in the first (guinea pig) class to be offered the diploma, but at the meeting tonight they changed the target dates so she will just miss it. While D (who is a freshman) would have been a good candidate, S who is in 6th struggles with writing. I wonder if an honors diploma with a few AP classes would look better if the IB diploma isn’t offered. At the meeting they said 40% of our students participate in AP but I wonder how many would be candidates for the full IB diploma. Our HS has less than 400 students so offereing AP and IB is going to be tricky. We have a very close knit community and the IB debate has divided many into pro vs. con camps. The school administrator said the kids will be able to choose between AP and IB but if they will get marked down for not having the full diploma, I don’t really see it as a choice.</p>
<p>I understand the IB Diploma can be a great program and fit the needs of many students who want to be well rounded and well prepared for college. But I also know the full diploma is very restrictive about the timing of courses and combination of courses allowed. I wonder if it the full diploma is the “best fit” for students who are really focused on / advanced in science or math or want to study engineering or computer science in college. If these students have the opportunity to take the many of the most advanced math/science/computer courses at their HS and maybe some at local colleges (while still taking challenging English/history/foreign language courses) isn’t that a better option than only taking what is allowed in the IB diploma program? Also, the IB program doesn’t seem to have any accommodations for students are really to take these advanced courses earlier than 11th or 12th grade.</p>
<p>Have any of your children put together a program of study that was more challenging than the full IB Diploma offered at their school? Did their HS consider it the most demanding curriculum? Did it help or hurt them get accepted into a competitive Math or Science or Engineering program?</p>
<p>Here is my story. My HS was an IB school that had some AP courses. I didn’t do the full IB, but instead took a lot of science, math and computer science courses (both AP and IB) at my school. This counted as most challenging curriculum, even though I didn’t do the full IB. My schedule was a better fit for me that just doing the full IB diploma since I wanted to go to study Engineering and was ready to take IB science and math courses before 11th grade. I wrote an essay and entered an essay contest, so I did a research paper, even though it wasn’t the extended essay during 11th grade. I also kept track of my EC and community service hours, so I was able to show to colleges that I was committed to these activities. I am currently attending Worcester Polytechnic Institute in Mass because it is a great fit for me, even though i was accepted at other, better known schools.</p>
<p>Next year, WPI is offering big scholarships to IB Diploma candidates with high scores…even if that was the case when I applied, I probably wouldn’t have done the full IB diploma. My friends during full IB burned out and hated 11 and 12 grade…and I think my schedule was better for me being a science/math/CS person without having to follow all the IB Diploma guidellnes.</p>
<p>You are exactly right about some of the limitations of the IB program. It is better suited for generalists than for students who are focused/advanced in a particular field, particularly if that field is a technical one.</p>
<p>In the school system that my kids come from, there are science/math/computer science magnet programs, which are much more appealing than the IB program to students like those you describe. Some students with narrowly focused interests also choose to avoid special programs altogether: they attend their neighborhood schools and take as many advanced courses as possible in their fields of interest there or at nearby colleges. (My son, who planned to major in computer science, chose to attend his neighborhood school and focus his program as heavily as possible on computer-oriented courses; my daughter, who was highly academic but had no special focus at the beginning of high school, chose an IB program.)</p>
<p>But not every school system is large enough (or rich enough) to offer so many possibilities. It may be that the IB program in your district is the only game in town for the serious academic student. In that case, the student may have to make some very substantial compromises in order to fit into the program or may have to choose to opt out of the program, even though this means being in less rigorous courses with less academically focused classmates. This can be a very tough decision.</p>
<p>We have two offspring. One simply ate up the IB program. It was his oyster. He groaned about some of the work but he got it all done. </p>
<p>Kid Two just about buckled under the work load. Every bit as smart – just someone who works at a different pace and in a different way. His misery index was a lot higher. </p>
<p>So, both students found lots to like (tends to be better teachers that get an IB training) but it all “hung together” well for one student and not for another. </p>
<p>I think you really have to evaluate IB and EC’s on a case by case basis. It’s not just family values – it is also personal nature and personal passions. It is ridiculous to say that “only a Park Avenue address is worth having, darling.” So is it nuts to think only IB or only AP will do.</p>
<p>I disagree with the notion that IB program is not the best fit for science/math/engineering oriented kids. But I agree with the fact that every school is different - not all IB schools are the same.
I have a sophomore in the IB track program. As a freshman he took two AP classes - math and science, this year he is taking 4 AP classes(science, math, arts and history) plus a college class. We LOVE the fact that IB program will make him pay a lot of attention to humanities courses, but he is in no way limited in his science /math classes.
He is taking AP/IB Music Theory this year because he wants to take IB Film as his IB arts required course. His school is large and offers a great selection of IB classes.</p>
<p>I realize this was posted in 2008, but I feel inclined to say that you worry too much. Your daughter was only in 9th grade and you were already thinking Ivy League? IB is a rigorous program worth yours and college admission’s time. I’m currently in it and I wouldn’t be going through the process if it was for nothing. IB guarantees a well rounded student that AP does not. Colleges want the well rounded student.</p>
<p>Sorry to throw cold water on this parade of lovely IB success stories, but I’m not convinced IB is all it’s cracked up to be—at least not always, not consistently. The large urban public HS in our neighborhood has an IB program. The quality is very mixed. Some IB courses are rigorous and some IB teachers are outstanding. Others are, frankly, nothing special, even mediocre. I suspect it just depends on the school. </p>
<p>There’s no question the IB track in our school attracts the best students in the school; but frankly, that’s a pretty low bar. My Ds report that even in the IB classes a lot of the kids are not very focused and motivated, and some of the teachers are just plain ineffective. What the IB track does is to effectively segregate the predominantly white middle- and upper middle-class kids who end up in IB from the larger school population, which is heavily low-income, African-American, Latino, and members of recent immigrant groups (Somali, Ethiopian, Eritrean, Hmong, etc)—very few of whom pursue IB. But I would say even the middle-class white kids in the IB track are not getting an outstanding education. They’re getting an OK education, while most of the kids in the school are getting only a fair to poor education. I wouldn’t rate that a huge success story. We deal with it, by the way, by homeschooling our kids. Both our Ds have tried the IB program and found it wanting, though D2 did decide to keep her 3 most challenging IB classes this year; homeschoolers in our state are entitled to do a certain amount of a la carte coursework in the public schools. For the rest, the IB track just wasn’t sufficiently challenging or rigorous, so we’re putting it together in other, more interesting ways.</p>