Before I begin, I should say that I am not sure of the correct terminology, but trying to understand if schools (not conservatories) are really willing to look at students who have limited (meaning not much time), but raw talent or are there so many applications (with so few spots) that the departments really only choose from kids with years of experience and extensive resumes. So do the kids who have been composing for years with summer programs, multiple teachers, performed works, etc. generally take the spots. Several schools said they are looking for raw talent, but I wonder if that is true.
Conservatories definitely look for raw talent, and take the time going through portfolios to figure out who has it.
With colleges, I think it depends on who listens to work and for how long. The resume is a kind of shorthand for talent, and is easier for admissions to evaluate, I would think, but if a music department faculty actually listens to some pieces, I am sure that raw talent would be recognized properly.
Hi. Trying to close the loop on my OP from what we learned in the hopes it might help someone! Others may have different experiences, so I am just relaying what happened, not debating the merits.
Yes, some schools do look at raw talent and not just at the resume. My experience is limited to music schools that are not stand-alone conservatories (Curtis, Julliard, etc.)
My S turned to composition very late in the game - late junior year and didn’t start working with anyone until summer after junior year and attended one camp for two weeks. It was very hectic as S crafted four pieces for submission, (esp since the pieces needed to be performed and recorded). This on top of the performance submission. So, S did not have any awards, did not have a composition professor from a conservatory with whom S worked (everyone else at the auditions did), and did not have perfected pieces.
Some top music schools at universities will NOT (at least with composition) go with raw talent. The only want the student who has all the criteria mentioned above - i.e. awards, resume, and instruction from conservatory. They were clear (yes, they said this) that their goal was to have someone already well trained. However, other top music schools will look beyond the resume.
Despite the weaker resume, S managed to get auditions for several top music schools - much to our surprise. We certainly did not expect that. So, the point of this post is to say there are several top schools who will audition (at least for composition) a student without an expansive resume or experience so do not despair if you come to composition late in the process.
When I met with jazz bass professor at U Maimi, he said that once in a while he will get a student who did not play out and about or have awards because there was nobody in the kid’s town to play with, but the kid played a lot to the Jamie Abersold CDs in his bedroom and was pretty good that way.
Like most things in music, it really depends on both the school and the teacher. Raw talent has a lot of meaning, it could mean someone who is incredibly musical but is playing well below the level technically of other students, it could mean someone who is musical who isn’t quite at the level of others. It also depends on the teacher, there are teachers who want kids who are technically hyper polished and don’t care as much about the musicality, and such a teacher would likely not go for the ‘raw talent’.
It also depends on the instrument as well, the standards are going to be different between instruments, or between instrumental music and voice, with kids playing piano or violin at since they were 4 or 5 and then studying with high level teachers, the level at 18 is going to be very different than someone who started let’s say trumpet at 8 or 9 (with winds and brass the earliest age to start is much higher in general than strings or piano), so that added number of years will show, voices develop late.
My take is depending on the instrument, there is a certain level of playing required to get into the top competitive programs/teachers, with violin a kid with major flaws in intonation or other technical playing ability is rarely going to get passed an audition to a top school/teacher no matter how musical, a kid who is less than perfect but musical as heck has a pretty good chance of getting in. I saw this with my S, he got into extremely competitive programs undergrad even though he was not one of the hypertechnical kids who could rip through paganini in a couple of minutes, and with grad school he got into tough programs with teachers very hard to get into their studio, even though he feels he has technical stuff still to work out, he got in because as one teacher put it he was an intellectual musican, not a violin jock.
This question is about composition, a field that honors late bloomers a little more than instrumental studies.
I would add that even if a school is looking for raw talent, they need to have something to evaluate. For a composer, that means scores and/or recordings. If you’re talking about a music department, it probably doesn’t mean pop songs or jazz tunes, and probably doesn’t mean recordings of you improvising. So it really helps to have some kind of experience, either with a composition teacher or a summer composition program, just so you can generate a portfolio that demonstrates your talent. As others have noted, you can start this pretty late compared to performers–but by late I mean, say, in the beginning of your junior year in high school, not midway through senior year.
I’d wager no school looking for “raw” talent. It’s how one develops talent that is the most important.
I disagree with #7 for undergrad composition applicants. But then again, how do we define “raw talent” in this context. To me, in composition, it means a young person who hasn’t had any important awards or performances, maybe hasn’t done any summer programs, and maybe even doesn’t have a teacher, but writes some real quality serious acoustic concert music (solo, duet, quartet, ensemble, chamber orchestra- doesn’t have to be orchestral by any means)- or sometimes electroacoustic works. They may have started quite “late” but it is indeed necessary to have a few pieces performed for the application. Musicians can be hired, or the high school ensemble can do it. Midi recordings are oftne okay for some of the pieces submitted.
Do those kids sometimes get into top programs? Yes, absolutely.