<p>I have to disagree.</p>
<p>I like Joel Hoffman's music. I listened to a cd of his just this week. And the summer New Music program is especially interesting. We attended Music03 - and it was very lively, with notable guest composers holding Master Classes and 8th Blackbird in residence. Not sure what the year round program is like - I have heard it's not the same as in the summer.</p>
<p>Dear WindCloudUltra:
Would you help me understanding the differences between B.M. and B.S. in Music Composition Major ?</p>
<p>Thank you so much</p>
<p>The Summer Music(Year) festivals are indeed different (and very good). With that said, perhaps I am just simply unaware of the program...but from where I am at, it is not a hot spot for undergrad, grad school or otherwise. Maybe I'm just ignorant about it. I'd love to hear more about it esp. if someone on this board goes to CCM for composition. </p>
<p>To N0321, as far as I know, there are no B.S. degrees given for Composition, as a B.S. usually indicates a technical, pure science (sometimes) or math (even less common). </p>
<p>Some schools offer B.A degrees with a composition track, or if you go to a liberal arts school, the B.A. is your only option. The primary difference between the BM and the BA is that the BA involves more work in other liberal arts fields (i.e. English, literature, pure science, language etc.) and the BM, depending on the school, usually has less. The BM is thus more of a pre-professional degree. </p>
<p>I know many composers who got undergraduate BAs rather than BM simply because they were intellectually curious about other subjects. Likewise, some schools offer the possibility of joint BA/BM 5-year programs. In this case, the BA is usually in a field other than music.</p>
<p>ok, so basically i'm new to forums and i couldn't figure out how to start a new thread, so i'll just reply to this one.</p>
<p>i'm currently a high school junior and i'm looking for the college with the best undergrad music composition department.</p>
<p>i've taken piano lessons since i was five and have performed works such as "sonata pathetique" by beethoven and "prelude in g minor" by rachmaninoff. i'm self-taught on guitar and i play percussion and trombone in band.</p>
<p>i've recently begun working on my college portfolio and my composing style tends to learn toward the "racmaninoff feel" if you'd like to call it that. i'm also attempting to compose a song using schoenberg's 12-tone system. i'm really interested in many styles of music (jazz, minimalist, modern, classical, everything, why content yourself to one thing?) so i guess i would want a college that's pretty diverse.</p>
<p>i was also interesting in doing a double major in music comp/music ed. i know that this will take longer, but i'm ok with that.</p>
<p>if anyone could give me any good suggestions, i would REALLY appreciate it. thanks. -joe</p>
<p>Windcloudultra, UC was ranked by US News 9th in the country in composition and in the top 5 for many performance majors. It's got to be quite good to achieve that ranking.</p>
<p>Check out Oberlin. Two big things that may (or may not) be major concerns are the reputation of the composition department as being pretty avant-garde, and the small-town location. If you can live with those, the facilities are excellent, there is an incredible amount of diversity in the music played there, there is great support for double majors and double degree students, they are in the process of building what will be one of the finest Jazz buildings anywhere, and they have a 5 year program that will let you get a BM in composition, a Master's degree in teaching and licensure that is valid for teaching preschool through 12th grade in any state in the US (not just Ohio). Also, they offer pretty good merit and need-based aid.</p>
<p>hey. thanks. i'll look into that. any others that anyone would suggest (i would like a few options.) if this makes i a difference, i've always that it would be cool to score movies.
thanks again. -joe</p>
<p>Hmm-- I have always heard that Oberlin's composition department is kind of backwards-looking, rather than avant-garde; that is, that they still espouse a 1960s kind of abstruse modernism. Fortunately, that style of writing is no longer seen as the "way of the future!"</p>
<p>Well, you've got to consider the source. I play a lot of Early Music and anything much after the classical period sounds avant-garde to me.</p>
<p>Seriously, though, I have a friend who is an Oberlin composition grad from several years back and his pieces are very listenable, not at all like the 60's augenmusik you mention.</p>
<p>ok... i'm not sure what you mean by avant-garde, and that makes me feel dumb... but, are there any others besides oberlin you would suggest? what do you recommend "fiddlefrog"?</p>
<p>joe_s- There's a fairly recent composition thread here <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/393206-italy-study-composing-help.html?highlight=composition%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/393206-italy-study-composing-help.html?highlight=composition</a> if you haven't already read it.</p>
<p>A couple of points to consider... many schools welcome and encourage double majors/dual degrees, others frown on it. Oberlin is very supportive, as is Hartt, but they do not have an approved (read as "allowed") double major five year program combining composition and music ed. </p>
<p>Oberlin, Hartt and Ithaca all have nationally recognized top notch music ed programs. That being said, if music ed is your primary goal, your own state university is often the most cost effective means of achieving that end in the absence of significant merit/talent scholarships from the private institutions.</p>
<p>Use the search this forum feature for double major, composition, and music ed as your criteria and a number of previous threads will come up.</p>
<p>eh. not so much that i want to put my focus on music ed as that i want to have something to fall back on in case composition doesn't work out. you know?
so, i'm feeling a bit overwhelmed (long day) at the moment, but this is what i've gathered:
princeton and mit have great composition programs.
so do oberlin and hartt.
mannes?</p>
<p>oh. ok. well now i, damn.
oh my head is going to explode.</p>
<p>so, i'm from iowa. yeah. not really near the east coast, so, anything in the midwest area (there abouts) that's considered good?</p>
<p>sorry.</p>
<p>In that case, you need to ask yourself how interested you actually are in teaching. If you have been thinking about this for some time and really see a K-12 classroom as a good place to make a career then, by all means, go for it. If you are looking at it as a consolation-prize day gig that will pay the bills, there are better-paying jobs out there that require less work and produce less stress. I have seen people who did exactly what you are planning and either washed out of teaching in less than two years or else became the kind of bitter and ineffectual teacher that nobody wants to get. Be sure that teaching is really what you want to do before signing up for a degree program in it.</p>
<p>There are lots of top music programs in the midwest that offer both composition and music ed degrees. Michigan, Indiana, and Cincinnati CCM spring to mind immediately. Unfortunately, I have no idea of how good those particular programs are (all schools have their strong and weak programs) and whether there is widespread support for the double major or double degree program. Perhaps others with more experience in these areas will chime in.</p>
<p>Avant-garde is a term that means different things to different people and in different situations. The way I have been thinking of it in this thread is something that is experimental in nature and seeks to push the boundaries of the state of the art. See Avant-garde</a> - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia for some other possible meanings. No need to feel dumb, just do a little research.</p>
<p>thanks.
for the advice and otherwise.
i talked to the comp professor at coe college a while back and he recommended michigan (ann arbor) and cincinatti ccm as well, so i'll look into those. when you said indiana, do you mean jacobb's school of music in bloomington?</p>
<p>you know what i'd love to do? get a solid foundation in composition and then have options: write a score, start a band and go on tour, etc. you know?</p>
<p>teaching would be okay, but you're right, i should put more thought into it. i do teach piano lessons to seven elementary students and i direct our high school pep band, so i have a feel for it, but i'll put some thought into it.</p>
<p>Yes, the Jacobs School at Indiana University in Bloomington. A friend of my daughter is there in her fourth year as a vocal performance major and loves it. As I say, I do not know much about their composition and music ed departments, but the Jacobs School overall has an excellent reputation.</p>
<p>Many people have similar dreams. When you explore various options at schools, see if they can tell you about any recent grads who have done just the sort of thing that you would like to do.</p>
<p>Uhh...when did US News start ranking composition programs?
And what the heck does it mean to rank composition program anyway? I'm not even sure how you do it.</p>
<p>Just a note on the double major aspect: my son was a five year viola performance/music ed major at Hartt. He has a talent for teaching, has maintained a private studio, and has coached chamber music for both children and adults as paid named faculty.</p>
<p>He did five years as a double major, and completed all the ed requirements except his student teaching semester and chose to graduate with just the performance BM. When asked, his reason was the lack of support the arts received in the public school systems where he observed and taught. These by the way were for the most part very well funded systems that have had and continue to have strong arts funding.</p>
<p>His first love is performance, and he has the talent to make a career of it. While he continues to teach privately, he does not see himself able to effectively function within the broad spectrum of publicly funded music education.</p>
<p>joe_s, as Bassdad has said, give teaching as a career plenty of thought before considering it as a profession. For those that truly love it, and are good at it, and can impart knowledge and enthusiasm within the public systems, I take my off my hat.</p>
<p>The highly dedicated, talented music professionals my son encountered within our public system are a prime factor in his love of music and his level of talent today.</p>
<p>Worldclassultra, US News ranks almost anything academic even high schools.</p>
<p>The procedure used to evaluate music programs is unknown to me other than the fact that they poll music deans. Frankly, I think all of their rankings in most areas are somewhat suspect.</p>
<p>taxguy, what college got #1 in music comp, and could you post this list? i'd appreciate it.</p>
<p>As far as I know...I've never seen such a ranking in USNews...
and my SN is Windcloudultra...not worldclassultra...though I'm not sure what I'm world class in....</p>
<p>Like joe_s...I'd love if you can produce such a ranking.</p>