<p>My son has been accepted to the three aforementioned colleges in Computer Science (Software Engineering at Cal Poly). We live in CA, but Barrett has offered a generous paid tuition (son is a National Merit Finalist, Eagle Scout, etc.) and UCLA has also offered a generous scholarship. Cal Poly has offered a one time $1500 scholarship, so it is by far the most expensive option of the three. In talking to Financial Aid (very nice), it sounds like Cal Poly just doesn't have a lot of funds.</p>
<p>Barrett offers excellent living quarters and support for writing the honors thesis and getting grad scholarships (like Fulbright). Professors are said to like working with Barrett interns and Intel has an internship program for CS students at ASU. My cousin's son is a junior at ASU and has an Intel internship now (during the school year) and a summer job with another great company this summer.</p>
<p>Son applied to Cal Poly's Honors program but won't hear until 4/22 at the earliest. We all love Cal Poly - location, weather, people - but have concerns about how impacted the school is. It is more expensive and I haven't heard about any internships during the school year or summer jobs. Funding seems to be a serious issue and an article just last week was talking about the CSU's raising fees again.</p>
<p>Don't know about grad school, but both Cal Poly and Barrett/ASU offer 4+1 master's programs for CS.</p>
<p>He isn't as interested in UCLA because he doesn't really like LA.</p>
<p>He is also into debate and robotics. </p>
<p>Any thoughts, suggestions or advice is tremendously appreciated! Thank you!</p>
<p>Has he actually visited UCLA and ASU?
If you can afford it he would be better off if he went to UCLA than the other schools. It has much higher name recognition, especially in Cal ,and has a great CS program. </p>
<p>Thanks! Yes, he spent a week at an engineering camp last summer at Cal Poly, an overnight at ASU and just a campus tour with a friend in CS at UCLA. With his scholarship, UCLA is actually more affordable than Cal Poly.</p>
<p>I would go to UCLA if he has a scholarship there. UCLA CS ranks highand is more reputable in CA. For Barrett Honors, what GPA does he need to maintain to keep the scholarship? Cal Poly SLO is also a good choice but if UCLA is cheaper than UCLA is a better option.</p>
<p>Sure I’ll put in my thoughts. First of all, set aside the name recognition/reputation issue completely. UCLA, ASU and Cal Poly are all fine schools and no matter which one he ultimately chooses, he will have a great future. Money on the other hand is a completely different story. You mention generous scholarships (which is fantastic) but you do not mention what it will take to maintain them. Are there any GPA or credit load requirements? Can he take time off for a semester abroad, co-op or extended internship and still keep the scholarship? If he loses his scholarship can he earn it back? I think that it is important to know the rules before you pull the trigger.</p>
<p>UCLA is a fine school and if it is the cheapest option and he likes the school than that could be an excellent choice. The only problem is that he does not like the area and is not a big fan of Los Angeles. Remember UCLA is very impacted and it takes just as long to get out of UCLA if not longer than Cal Poly. Additionally, he will have to LIVE in LA and attend UCLA for several years of his life. In order for him to have a great experience, school pride is very important. Being happy in LA is not really that big of a deal, being happy with UCLA where he will be spending most of his time is important. (Additionally, LA is so huge that there is generally something for everyone. We live in LA and dreaded moving here from AZ, but we found our niche – it took about 18 months but we found our peeps. At college the process should be faster.)</p>
<p>I went to the UofA in Tucson and then got my international MBA at the Thunderbird School of Global Management in Phoenix. The two cities are very different and it is important that your son likes warm weather! Summers are brutal, but they never bothered me. I know others that wilt in the summers in AZ, but I never had a problem. ASU is a huge institution much like UCLA. The honors program may really help him have a smaller “community” to start with. The internship opportunities sound great, but AZ is still a much smaller economy than CA.</p>
<p>Cal Poly is awesome and you are all correct that the school, the location and everything about it is great. Nevertheless, if it is your most expensive option then you are obligated to think twice. SLO is not a major city like LA or Phoenix and there are far fewer local internships. However, extended co-ops and internships are very, very common for Cal Poly students and employers LOVE the school. They come from all over CA and the West and they like the school because of its unique teaching methodology and emphasis on “hands on and learn by doing”. This is not a slogan or hype. Your son will actually be “plug and play” upon graduation needing a minimum of on the job training. This is something that employers really appreciate. The honors program at CAL Poly is just OK. So if he does not get in, I would not be disappointed or give it much weight. Cal Poly in and of itself is an “honors program” and unlike other schools being in the program will not give him priority registration, any real perks like special housing, etc. My kid clearly qualified for the Cal Poly honors program, but decided not to apply because his major was so tough already he just was not interested. On the other hand, at Cal Poly Pomona and UCI, he would not have even considered those schools without the honors programs. At Cal Poly SLO, he is on the Presidents Honors List for maintaining a high GPA and he was awarded a scholarship as a result. So, it is possible to get scholarships midstream at Cal Poly SLO which we were not aware of until it was offered. He was given it automatically after a few quarters of keeping his GPA at summa cum laude level. Although Cal Poly is a more expensive option (in your case) starting and mid career salaries for Cal Poly grads are higher than for UCLA. There is an article posted on the Cal Poly forum on CC that give the details of this research. Impacted classes? Getting classes at Cal Poly has never been an issue for our son. He may not get the preferred professor or the preferred time slot, but he has always gotten the class he needed. In my opinion, not getting the classes you want is mostly due to kids not being persistent enough. My kid even “crashed” a class that he could not get on the first day of the quarter and the professor just added him to the list.</p>
<p>So, the choice is pretty clear. If money is the overriding issue than UCLA. If LA is just not an option and money is still the overriding factor than ASU. If location preference, teaching methodology and after graduation salary level is more important then go for Cal Poly SLO. No matter where he goes he will have a great education. Just to let you know my kid turned down UCLA, UCSD and three other UC’s as well as Cal Poly Pomona and never applied out of state due to location preference. He loves Cal Poly SLO and we expect him to graduate at the top of his class. Contrary to what we thought at the start of college, he will most likely not go to grad school immediately preferring to work first. He is anxious to get his career moving and quite frankly, some employers will pay for an advanced degree for the right employee.</p>
<p>I just wanted to clarify some of the quotes from osakadad about UCLA.</p>
<p>Wrt the bold, the reason why UCLA students typically take longer than four years to complete their degrees in CS and engineering (I meant this as separate majors not combining the two), is because these students push the limits of max credits at the U to become more marketable in E-industry. All students to these majors have advanced entry for breath courses, and if these are taken into account along with all the courses they do take at UCLA, the no. of credits upon graduation will even surpass the U-enforced caps. As it is, probably just about all choose not to accept APs credits to the U, which leaves them to take more CS and E classes at UCLA, so they purposely slow-play their graduations. Just about everyone else at UCLA tries to get in and out as soon as possible, which results in a ~ 70% for all students. The other 30% are mainly science students and mainly CS and E students as a predominance within this.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>This maybe true within Payscale’s database. One of the main things within PS’s surveys is that all the wages of alumni assigned to each u’s median salaries most importantly excludes those with advanced degrees. The typical SLO engineer doesn’t pursue advanced degrees as much as UCLA’s do. And for the rest of the set of alumni from each of these u’s this is true in the even moreso for UCLA, which results in ~ 70% of UCLA baccalaureate alumni attending grad school. I don’t know what the figure is for SLO, but I would be surprised if it’s anywhere near this %. So PS’s surveys can only reference 30% of UCLA’s alumni for their reported medians. Add to this, most UCLA alumni who attend grad are the higher tier grads within all of the u’s set. Overall, because UCLA produces many more grads who attend medical, law and bus school than SLO, this should mean that UCLA grads, if all the grads were included in this survey, both with just bac and grad degrees should report higher mid-career salaries. Speculation on part, but not wholly unsupported spec. </p>
<p>The ASU NMF scholarship requires 3.0 GPA evaluated annually at end of school year and 30 credit hours per school year to renew. If you end the year with deficiency, you may be permitted to make it up during the summer semester at ASU or by completing transfer credit elsewhere. If you enroll in less than 12 credits in a semester you lose that semester’s award.
Detailed requirements here:
<a href=“Scholarship renewal guide | Tuition | ASU”>https://students.asu.edu/scholarships/renewal</a>
Students can get deferments or leaves of absence. Max 2 years and have to follow policy. One acceptable reason is “unique learning experience related to your studies at ASU.”</p>
<p>Just a clarification, sorry, celesteroberts…</p>
<p>In my first paragraph, </p>
<p>
[quote]
Just about everyone else at UCLA tries to get in and out as soon as possible, which results in a ~ 70% [four-year graduation] for all students.</p>
<p>For the entire second paragraph, this should read with corrections because it was so poorly written:</p>
<p>This may be true within Payscale’s database[; however, PS’s data is flawed when accounting for the median salaries of all universities’ baccalaureate recipient alumni because it chooses to omit in many cases major portions of each’s bac-alumni group]. The most [important thing PS does, is it eliminates those with] advanced degrees. The typical SLO engineer doesn’t pursue advanced degrees as much as UCLA’s do [partly because CS & E programs with more theory-based studies, eg, UCLA, tend to be better candidates for grad school]. And for the rest of the [non-CS & E] set of alumni from each of these [two] u’s this [would be the case] even more so for UCLA [because UCLA is more pre-professional in its undergrad offerings], which results in ~ 70% of UCLA baccalaureate alumni who attend grad school. I don’t know what the figure is for SLO, but I would be surprised if it’s anywhere near this %. So PS’s surveys can only reference 30% of UCLA’s alumni[, those who’ve only obtained solely bac degrees] for their reported medians. Add to this, most UCLA alumni who attend grad are the higher tier grads within all of the u’s set [of alumni, because those who graduate with lower class rank typically have lesser grad options]. Overall, because UCLA produces many more grads who attend medical, law and bus school than SLO, this should mean that UCLA grads, [should report much higher mid-career medians]. [SLO’s medians might or might not improve significantly, depending on what % of SLO’s grads attend grad school, what the quality of SLO grads is who do, and what grad program they do attend. For instance on these latter, is it a grad program dietary science, or is it a major professional school, etc.] [Sorry to be so long-winded. Both u’s are excellent, no bad choices here; they just offer different things: UCLA more of a pre-professional u, and SLO, more of a tech u.]</p>
<p>Thank you, Celeste… I’ve been trying to find the scholarship requirements, so that really helps! </p>
<p>Your point is valid, drax12, though I’m sure salary would be fine from either school. I’m teaching AP Stats for the first time this year, so I appreciate your analysis of potential bias. (My oldest son is graduating from UC Davis in CS in June (Lord-willing!), and he received some nice job offers.)</p>
<p>@OsakaDad, that is a really helpful analysis of my son’s decision. Thanks for putting in a logical sequence. Did your son consider the 4+1 master’s program at Cal Poly? That seems like an appealing option as well.</p>
<p>Our college/career counselor offered some simple but good advice as well: “Where will your son really thrive?”. You are all helping us put together the pieces to that puzzle. Thank you!</p>
<p>That’s funny – people around these forums say that about CPSLO (28% four year graduation rate). Compare to UCLA (71% four year graduation rate, 81% twelve quarter graduation rate*).</p>
<p>I suspect that such claims are very exaggerated with respect to all California public universities, and that most causes of delayed graduation are due to student error (poor scheduling choices, late change of major, not wanting to take the 8am class), student ability/motivation (cannot handle full course loads, need remedial courses, fail courses – less selective schools tend to have lower four year graduation rates), or benign causes (co-op jobs or other quarters/semesters off school, probably a reason for CPSLO’s four year graduation rate being lower than expected for its selectivity). Some CSUs (CPP, CSUFresno, CSUStan, CSUSB) have four year graduation pledge programs that promise that students will not get delayed due to class unavailability if they follow their majors’ course plans, but their four year graduation rates are still quite low.</p>
<p>*Back when UC Statfinder was up, graduation rates by major could be found. UCLA’s engineering four year graduation rate was significantly lower than its overall, but significantly higher than 28%.</p>
<p>@Sandydjdm - There are couple of comments about graduation rates posted above by ucbalumnus that you should pay attention to. I’ve been very impressed with ucbalumnus’ posts over time and I consider that person to be one of the most unbiased and fact based posters on CC in general. I tend to be far more anecdotal and opinion based in general. In truth, graduation rates were not a factor in our decision making process when choosing schools. Fit was our overriding concern. Our kid tends to be very intense when it comes to school and we’ve been urging him to take it easy on the credits. We just want him to have a great experience and graduate with his sanity in tact.</p>
<p>Another thing that I should say is that cost is very important to me, but mainly in the context of ROI (return on investment). For us, Cal Poly SLO was a bargain. As a businessman, I think that all families need to be hyper aware of cost and avoid debt as much as possible. You do not want to mortgage your kid’s future or dip into home equity or retirement funds to pay for college.</p>
<p>You asked about the 4+1 program. Our son is considering it, but he is taking things day by day focusing on the task at hand. He will not make a decision regarding that program until next year. Right now, I think that he is more interested in getting a job right out of school. He excels in school, but I think that he is anxious to get out into the field as soon as possible. He is a mechanical engineering student and most engineers don’t need grad school to get a great job. In fact, one of the most popular graduate degrees for engineers is an MBA – not another engineering degree. An MBA can be a great segue to management inside a good engineering firm. I doubt that will be the route my kid takes, but it is often a good idea to get a masters degree that is relevant to work you gravitate to. For that decision, you often need a few years in the field.</p>
<p>Actually, THE main thing about pay scale is that is is NOT a database. It is a collection of self-reported anecdotes, which any AP Stat grad know is not data by any stretch of the imagination. </p>
<p>Are you referring to why I think UCLA"s overall median salaries should be higher than CPSLO’s if all bac-recipient alumni were included including those who attended grad school?</p>
<p>One, I am not a statistician as you are. Two, I’m fairly math challenged. But, nonetheless, with this in mind, let me address the things that might indeed tweak the nos. considerably, and throw bias into the mix.</p>
<p>Qualitatively speaking, here are some of the things that could affect the nos:</p>
<ol>
<li>My claim that 70% of UCLA bac recipients attend(ed) grad, thus, PS leaving them out of the calculations.</li>
<li>My claim that UCLA grads attend med, law, and bus school in far greater nos. than SLO (I hope you’re not offended by my referring to it as such).</li>
</ol>
<p>Do you see anything else you’d want me to address?</p>
<p>Regarding the two points:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Is very hard to prove. I’m not even sure that UCLA knows the true nos. But for those grads whom the U has information on, those who’ve joined the alumni association, the nos. are indeed ~ 67% or 2/3’s of all bac-recipients. I rounded this to 70%. I can’t very well tell you what SLO’s nos. are, but I thought I stated such in my post. But, because of…</p></li>
<li><p>We know that UCLA produces many, many, more MD’s, JD’s, MBA’s from its undergraduate set than SLO. Wrt MD’s, UCLA had over 800 applicants to m-school in 2012. I’m guessing, not without background, that ~ 500 or + were accepted into m-school. Here’s the link to [aamc.org’s]( <a href=“https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/86042/table2.html”>https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/86042/table2.html</a>)website showing apps in 2012. I don’t see SLO on the list. Wrt Calbar members, here’s the link to member [demographics]( <a href=“Attorney Demographics”>http://members.calbar.ca.gov/search/demographics.aspx</a>). UCLA is first with > 21,000 members. SLO isn’t listed in the top 25, with no. 25, Penn, having 1,811 members, so SLO would have to be below this. MBA’s - UCLA has one of the top 20 highest averages of GMAT scores, and since UCLA is more undergrad preprofessions-related, UCLA grads point to grad school and in this case grad mgmt for prof-school training.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Because of 2, I would assume that UCLA produces more graduates with grad educations. Add that UCLA is top-10 in bac-to-PHD completions in STEM, which includes computer science, engineering and life and physical sciences and mathematics.</p>
<p>This is all I got, if you want to discuss this more feel free to address a post to me.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I hear you on this one. I would think, though, that PS has a running database on the nos. for each college. Too bad we can’t access them on a basis where they could hide the identity of those who’ve participated. And I agree, far too anecdotal. </p>
<p>We know that PS is too passive in its data collection, and their sample sizes depend on people responding, not something that would be an active approach to collecting scientific data on an alumni set that figures in demographics, underemployment, etc.</p>
<p>I’m sure they do, but again it is all self-reported data (that ps then crunches to make it pretty). But even a lot of self-reported anecdotes are still just that, anecdotes. No different than Rate My Professor.</p>
<p>… drax2 said:<br>
“Are you referring to why I think UCLA"s overall median salaries should be higher than CPSLO’s if all bac-recipient alumni were included including those who attended grad school?
One, I am not a statistician as you are. Two, I’m fairly math challenged. But, nonetheless, with this in mind, let me address the things that might indeed tweak the nos. considerably, and throw bias into the mix.”</p>
<p>Oh, I was just agreeing with your point that the Pay Scale analysis would be biased by not including graduate level degrees. Your thorough analysis certainly doesn’t indicate being math-challenged. ( BTW, I’m not a statistician, I’m actually a chemical engineer turned high school math teacher. Our small school has a wonderful AP Calculus teacher, but didn’t offer AP Stats, so I asked and they agreed to let me teach AP Stats this year. I’m really quite the novice, but enjoying learning and so grateful for my patient students!) Bluebayou is right - voluntary response invites bias.</p>
<p>…“SLO (I hope you’re not offended by my referring to it as such).”
LOL! I never thought of it that way. We call it SLO all the time. Funny. No, no offense.</p>
<p>I had never heard of PayScale, but I put in my oldest son’s general stats and it was within $5K of his starting salary - admittedly entirely anecdotal.</p>
<p>(Interestingly, in playing around a little with the PayScale algorithm, putting in the bare bones for a software engineer with 0 years of experience graduating from UCLA, ASU and Cal Poly there was no difference at all in predicted median salary, regardless of college, so PayScale doesn’t adjust salary predictions directly based upon university attended. The difference is actually reflected in the location of employment, ranging from $59K in Phoenix to $65K in LA to $75K in San Francisco given the same level of experience and education at the three different colleges.)</p>
<p>@OsakaDad I totally agree that a bachelor’s degree in engineering is sufficient training for a variety of careers. It’s funny, I thought about getting my MBA at one point and took statistics at UCB as a prereq… It was the most boring class I ever took in my life (sorry @ucbalumnus), so I took guitar lessons and traveled to Europe instead. My how things (and calculators) have changed!</p>
<p>(Just FYI, counting Tuition & Room & Board only, ASU is about $4K/year less than UCLA, which is about $3K/year less than Cal Poly. Travel costs would be more expensive for ASU, but room & board could go down in last two years if he moved off campus and, since the tuition is covered we aren’t subject to tuition/fee increases. I think we could swing ASU without too much debt, especially if he got a research grant and/or summer jobs. The others would be more of a stretch. We will have two in college still.)</p>
<p>Costs could go down 2nd year at ASU if you are lucky and manage to get one of the Vista apts. They are cheaper for the room than Barrett dorms, and since there is a kitchen, one can choose to not buy a meal plan at all, or get a cheaper plan and do some cooking. This is something new for this academic year. Barrett took over a couple of buildings of Vista del Sol across the street and is giving them to upper classmen, but still running the buildings with CAs and Barrett rules.
Here is link to current rates, next year’s not out yet:
<a href=“https://housing.asu.edu/information/room-and-dining-rates-non-ftf-tempe-campus”>https://housing.asu.edu/information/room-and-dining-rates-non-ftf-tempe-campus</a>
Vista has their own website if you want to see what it is like:
<a href=“http://vistadelsol.com/floorplans”>http://vistadelsol.com/floorplans</a>
When you browse on their site, note that prices you see for apts/utilities etc. are for students who go in on their own in non-Barrett buildings and rent by the year. Barrett buildings are regular 9-month dorm rental and total prices as listed in housing site.No utilities or anything like that.</p>