<p>I am going to try this again and see if I can get a few questions answered.It is my intent to help my son who is oos accepted to Cal Poly for fall of 13.Osaka dad seems to be a big fan of Cal Poly and he commented that Cal Poly computer science was ranked second for schools that the highest degree was a masters.What would Cal Poly rank if it was compared to all colleges with a degree level of PHD?Is a Cal Poly computer science degree worth $150K which would be the cost if my son had to attend for 5 years?What is the ratio of students applying for computer sciece versas the ones accepted?
In my other post you assumed that my son did not like Cal Poly and that is not true.He does not like the state colleges where we live as the degree offered is not the caliber of oos coleges.
I have some other questions and comments but will wait to see.</p>
<pre><code> Thank you for your help!
</code></pre>
<p>Q1. The ranking should still be very solid compared to those schools. Consider that at the PhD schools, the profs may be doing more research and less teaching. At Cal Poly, the profs and not the TA’s are teaching.</p>
<p>Q2. Arguably yes. The CP graduates have some of the best starting salaries on the West Coast. But of course, finances are a personal matter. So this one is a bit subjective as everyone will have their own view on “worth it”. For our family, it is worth the extra money to pay out of state tuition to have or kid at a top notch program where he is genuinely excited to be. </p>
<p>Q3. No clue. Perhaps the admissions office has a breakdown. It may be similar to the overall admission/rejection ration–See **************.com’s Cal Poly stats page.</p>
<p>Good luck to your son and to your decision making.</p>
<p>Hi Wayold,
I can’t say whether a Computer Science degree from CP is worth $150K, but I do think the program is very highly regarded. I hear that CP grads in CSC often get 6 digit salaries right out of school (also great internships) working for the likes of Facebook, Google, and Microsoft. But beware… the program is hard!!! If your son makes it through, he will have VERY GOOD programming skills. A poster on another thread just posted updated graduation stats:</p>
<p>“engineering 15% in 4 years
computer science specifically (that’s what I’m doing) 10% take 4 years, 30% take 5”</p>
<p>30% in five years is very low! I think MANY who begin in computer science end up changing their major. Just getting through the freshman series CPE 101/102/103 is a hurdle many don’t get over. My son made it through those three classes only to give up on Computer Science after CSC 225 (he didn’t want to attempt CPE 357 which is supposed to be another harder weed-out course for those who survived 101/102/103). He didn’t enjoy programming enough to want to bust his butt throughout college in order to get a job doing computer programming. For those who love it and can make it through, their skills will be very valuable in the marketplace. My son switched to philosophy, a degree that holds very little value in the marketplace (at least as a new grad.) But, he’s happy, and he will have a degree from Cal Poly! :)</p>
<p>Good luck with your decision! Here the Computer Science flowchart:</p>
<p>Is it worth $150,000? A few things to consider:</p>
<p>A lot of students (computer engineering, computer science & software engineering majors) change majors after taking the first year of programming. I believe this is true at many universities, not just Cal Poly. Those first programming classes are hard & very time consuming, as mentioned by ralph4. The nice thing about Cal Poly is students immediately take a programming class to get a feel for it. If they dont like it, then they can change majors early on. That is better than taking the first programming class late freshman year or in the sophomore year and then change majors.</p>
<p>Tech jobs are in demand now. 4-6 years down the line, there could be a tech bust with internships & jobs limited or dried up.</p>
<p>Use internships to help pay the tuition.</p>
<p>Dont forget the extra expenses of books, traveling, staying at hotels, meals, moving, and perhaps visiting.</p>
<p>Even though your student is not interested in your in-state options, do look at them more carefully. Just because a California university ranks higher than your in-state options, doesnt mean your in-state computer science programs are bad. Take a look at the actual courses taken and offered. There could be more than you think.</p>
<p>Cal Polys computer science bachelors program offers quite a bit in the upper division specialties. You can take one class (ex: intro to computer graphics) that is the prerequisite for others in that specialty (ex: animation or rendering or 3D graphics) (note, these classes may not be offered every year but may be offered every other year). At some universities, you take a specialty class but have to go for the masters degree to take parts 2 & 3. Cal Polys fast quarter system gives students a chance to try out several classes.</p>
<p>Have you visited all the campuses you are considering?</p>
<p>Thank you for your answers…We have discussed giving a year a chance and see how it goes.We have looked very hard at our in state schools for two years.And yes we have visited all the campuses.As you might guess its hard to beat the SlO area.We are still investigating UC Davis.S has a 17k grant there with very little at Cal Poly.</p>
<p>As much as I love Cal Poly, it may not be worth it to you. I think I paid $2,400 a year for my undergrad. Even my MBA only cost $50,000 total at a top private school. At the time, it was a scandalous price to pay for a masters degree. Alas, that was back in the 1980’s and that era is long gone.</p>
<p>School just costs more and soon only the elite or the very poor will be able to go to college. The elite because they can afford it and the poor because they can get substantial aid. The rest of us who are too “wealthy” for aid, but still can’t afford to shell out the big bucks will be priced out of the market.</p>
<p>Anyway, it seems like you need to make a financial decision. The idea of paying $150,000 for Cal Poly seems to be weighing you down. Consider the schools that offer big bucks. Or be the decision maker and just tell the kid that he has to go instate and that’s that. As long as his CS program is ABET accredited, it will give him everything that he needs to make it in industry. Here is a link to the ABET website where you can look up every school in your state (or nationally) that offers an accredited program: [Accredited</a> Program Search](<a href=“http://main.abet.org/aps/Accreditedprogramsearch.aspx]Accredited”>http://main.abet.org/aps/Accreditedprogramsearch.aspx)</p>
<p>Thank you for your opinion.We have some time and I am trying to look into other schools that may work.I know the old saying you get what you pay for but at Cal Poly the difference may not be worth the money.</p>
<p>Do what you need to do. For us, Cal Poly was really the only choice and it was the best economics vs. quality of education. Our kid turned down many offers from top institutions for Cal Poly. That is how highly we value the hands on/learn by doing teaching methodology.</p>
<p>However, we are instate CA and have the advantage of lower tuition. Even so, it is a big financial investment.</p>
<p>One thing that you might take into consideration, even though it is not guaranteed, is the value of a coop or paid internship. My son says that he has buddies that earned $20K at a coop and $10K for a paid internship. These funds can be used towards tuition. Just a thought.</p>
<p>Yes, Cal Poly would be a bargin versus other instate schools.I have done some research on job fairs at Cal Poly and was surprised the lack of large companies that recruit there.Not to say that there are not plenty of smaller companies loking for a bargin recruit.I also checked where people were working after they left Cal Poly.At least in the computer feild I saw most of the graduates were hired by smaller companies for less money than some top colleges.I compared UCDAVIS which I know Cal Poly is often compared to and it appears that there alot more top companies recruiting there.Also the profesors at Davis had top University degrees but Cal Poly not so much at least not in Computers.In the computer field it is very easy to get a paid internship during the summer so I cannot use that as a comparison.</p>
<p>I’ve always been of the impression that an Engineering degree from ANY top 150 school outside the top 50 (which would be Cal Poly and also probably your Instate school) is more relevant than the school from which it was granted.</p>
<p>$150,000? Yes, that’s personal, but the vast majority of financial planners would advise parents to not rob from their own retirement account in order to buy an education at one school that is only a little better than from another school. However, that is a value judgement that will vary from one family to another. The vast majority of financial planners would also advise a student to avoid large debt (by any combination of loans in the student’s name, or loans the parents take out that the student promises to repay) by choosing a slightly better more expensive school over a less expensive, slightly less desired school.</p>
<p>Hi,
Great answer!!Just what I was looking to hear.I was of the same opinion about the cost and quality of the degree but I wanted someone else to say this so I could show it to my family.Unfortunally none of my state schools will rank in the top 150.</p>
<p>I went to Cal Poly engineering for undergraduate, Harvard for my graduate. So I have some experience in the spectrum tuition costs vs ROI.</p>
<p>I personally think that spending $150k for an undergraduate degree for any university except for the truly truly world famous institutions (I am thinking top 10 in the world such as MIT, Caltech, Princeton, Stanford, etc) as excessive. Outside of this ultra-elite club, there is definitely a diminishing return on investment on undergraduate education that can’t be justified by most reasonable parents. My assertion is based on the idea that upper echelon undergrad education opens doors to extremely high ROI gigs for the students that aren’t available to lesser schools (e.g. hedge fund jobs, investment banking jobs etc.) So if the school can’t provide that sort of opportunities I would emphasize on costs over name. </p>
<p>Even as an alumni who love Cal Poly, I would struggle with the idea of spending $150k for my child for the school. I would say the same thing even for other similarly ranked schools such as UC Davis, UCSB, UCI, or even schools somewhat higher ranked such as USC, UCSD, or even Cal. I would say save the money for an ultra-elite graduate program. </p>
<p>I would actually beg to differ on the top 150 ranking for Cal Poly. If you look at UC Davis’, UCSB’s engineering ranking for undergraduate they are in the mid-30s in the US overall. I think Cal Poly engineering is easily a comparable peer in every way to these 2 fine engineering schools.</p>
<p>@wayold – money, and rightly so, seems to be your main concern. Have you thought of just sending the kid to a community college and then transferring to a good state school? I guarantee that you will save money and your kid’s future will still be in tact.</p>
<p>If it really is all about money, and any ABET accredited program will end up in a good job if he applies himself, why are you obsessing over Cal Poly and other schools? If I were of your mindset and worried about ROI on an education, I would go the CC to state college route. That will clearly be your highest ROI. Sometimes, you just gotta law down the law.</p>
<p>I got a buddy who gave his kid a budget and said, “Here is every penny that I will give you for school. If you go over budget, you are on your own.” It worked! The kid went to Univ of Washington in Seattle and this year he is working fulltime to get residency. He’ll graduate from a really good school and stay on budget.</p>
<p>I am obsessed with Cal Poly and UCDavis because I Cal Poly, U of Washington,UCDavis were the best schools in the west he could get accepted to which he did.The problem is that they cost a fortune for oos.The other schools in the west which would be much cheaper are not even cose to the quality of education he will recieve here.</p>
<p>Osaka – I should have clarified that my ranking referred to the USNWR ranking, not just for the Engineering or CS degree.</p>
<p>I also should have been more clear in my choice of syntax. I meant that for two schools outside the top 50, but inside the top 150, the difference in ranking does not significantly impact future opportunities. That is of course just my opinion. USNWR #60 vs. #140, for example? does anyone really care? Having an Engineering or CS degree overshadows both. So, my advice is to save the $150k in this example, and get the degree form the #140 ranked school. Does anyone think a degree from Rutgers (#68) is much better than a degree from Arizona St. (#139)? However, if you’re comparing Rutgers with North Dakota State (#189), maybe there could be reason to pay the $150k difference. Maybe not.</p>
<p>Now, OP seems to have said that the in-state option isn’t even ranked in the top 150. I wasn’t aware there was a state whose flagship University is outside the top 150, but I suppose that is possible. That would then be a tougher call to make.</p>
<p>wayold – did you apply to any private schools? Those institutions often give much more aid than the publics. Also, DunninLA says,
Agreed, are you absolutely sure that your state option is not in the top 150? Even states like Alabama, Wyoming and West Virginia have great flagship state schools. Where are you from that your state has no good options? I am not trying to be argumentative or condescending here. I am just trying to figure out why you are obsessed with schools that you obviously cannot afford.</p>
<p>I went to a great state school from a small state – Arizona. I had professors from some of the top schools in the US there. The school sent me overseas and opened a world of opportunity up to me. This is 30 years ago when Arizona was way behind California’s educational system. Didn’t hurt me a bit and I got into a top MBA program later. You can’t be from a state that is more backward than Arizona was 30 years ago!</p>
<p>Thanks for your effort to help.I do appreciate it.I am not going to disclose the state here.I have looked at professors from different colleges across the west in computer degrees and most seem old along with the age of thier degrees.Many of thier degrees are from poor colleges or foriegn countries.Not to say that some could not be quality professors but overall I think they lack alot.
30 years ago is vastly different in the type of education than today especialy in the tech field.I don’t think I have to explain that I am sure you can understand.
If you could point to some Western colleges that are affordable and offer a qualtiy tech degree it would be appreciated.Private colleges are mostly religous based and my son is not interested in attending.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, trying to find other colleges when you are three weeks away from the uniform acceptance date deadline for fall 2013 attendance is a tough spot to be in. If you wait too long, housing is going to be a problem.</p>
<p>I don’t believe most private colleges are religious. Many may have originated or been initially funded, but are no longer connected to a religious institution at all. This is something to be determined by researching potential colleges. I agree that financial aid can be way better from a private college. For us, the delta between two private colleges and in state Cal Poly expenses is about $10k/year because of financial aid from the other schools. (This can be overcome by summer employment potentially). So, for us, fit and feel is the key.</p>
<p>No matter the post employment stats of any school, each kid’s potential is different.</p>
well, suit yourself. People have gone out of their way to try to help you, and you won’t even cooperate to help them help you. Go away now. I am not going to disclose why I write that.</p>
<p>I believe Wayold has sparked a great debate on cost and students’ decisions. I believe that 18 year olds don’t have enough experience to judge this tradeoff for themselves because they do not understand the product they are buying.
My student’s counselor indicated that in her many years of experience kids will go with the best rankings almost all the time when choosing where to go, as they don’t have any other basis to judge. This ranking business and why kids (and some parents) choose by rankings has led us on a path to spiraling college costs as every school increases their costs to move upmarket toward …the high ranking schools…more research, better facilities, teachers ect. So that today all schools are very expensive and require this generation to be in great debt. Parents and kids need to be better consumers of higher education…understand the program and what they will and will not get out of it both in economics and intrinsic benefits not just use rankings. Then compare programs vs. cost just like you would with other purchases. Cal Poly happens to be stellar for in state consumers in this regard, however, had I been in Arizona or Washington we would have chosen differently. Once we explained this to our student and he understood what he was buying the tradeoff on ranking was easy to make.
For more on this topic link to Prof. Clayton Christensen of Harvard speaking about this on TechCrunch Sat. April 6th.
[Clayton</a> Christensen Talks Venture Capital, Crowd Funding, And How To Measure Your Life | TechCrunch](<a href=“http://techcrunch.com/2013/04/06/clayton-christensen-talks-venture-capital-crowd-funding-and-how-to-measure-your-life/]Clayton”>Clayton Christensen Talks Venture Capital, Crowd Funding, And How To Measure Your Life | TechCrunch)</p>