Computer science student stategy

Parents Forum
1

<p>My son is a HS student (completed Jr. year) at a competitive public school in the midwest (MO). Other information are as follows:</p>

<p>Desired major: computer science
Other interests: physics
GPA Weighted: 4.15
GPA Unweighted 3.68 (No grade lower than a B)
Course work: Most challenging, mainly honors and AP courses including Computer, Chemisty 1-3, physics 1-3, biology 1-2- took 2 AP test in JR., no results.</p>

<p>EC's: Not loaded with them like many in the forum, but keeps busy, last summer- internship related with small computer co., other school activities, many school activities slated for senior year. A quiet, nerdy type kid, doesnt show any interest in sports.</p>

<p>Class rank: Guessing 35/350
Gifts: Really strong computer skills and naturally talented, learns quickly
took JAVA programming and will take C+ programming via independent HS study next year from recommendation of AP computer teacher. Built a top-notch home computer from parts himself at 13 years old with no assistance or problems, properly configured, etc., connected to file servers acquired garage sales, built web site. Goes to neighborhood garage sales looking for old computers,to my wife's dismay, salvages parts, rebuilds, that type of kid. Called on from family and friends to trouble shoot their computers. </p>

<p>**More interested in programming and software development, etc. than engineering, which seem to be more hardware related.</p>

<p>ACT Math 32 (composite) 30
SAT/writing: Took it twice already, did some self-study review in Princeton's review- 1st time not so good- 660's across board, he said he felt he did better the second time, I'm guessing 700+ math and lets say 690 each on the other 2.</p>

<p>PSAT- Top 3%- I'm surprised with his first SAT was that low in comparison.
Maybe he will surprise us on the second one. </p>

<p>Questions:</p>

<p>We have visited and/or may be looking at various schools COMPUTER SCIENCE Programs (also some interest in physics), based upon reputation (NOT listed in Priority Order):</p>

<p>1) Purdue
2) Rose Hulman
3) Georgia Tech
4) University of Illinois
5) Carnegie Mellon- (seems like a great school (expensive) but out-of-reach, any opinions welcomed)
6) Univ. Mo -Rolla (In-state tuition)
7) Rice (seems more and more selective, like it may be out-of-reach, opinions welcomed)</p>

<p>Questions (MO resident):
1) Are we missing any schools with good computer science programs ?
A small to med. sized school on paper is a good fit, but we are open.</p>

<p>2) Any thought to the above colleges on chances or which ones are the best overall/ quality, teachers, quality of life etc.? </p>

<p>3) Any negative implications from job recruiters or colleges on transfer students (ie., community colleges, etc.)- goal reducing overall college costs ? Thus, perhaps you could go to your school of choice for the same price as a second choice (in other words, if money is an issue, is it better to arrange to be a transfer student- say after 1 year or less at the other school, community college, etc.). This would not be a preference, but may be a feasible option. </p>

<p>4) Any thoughts in comparing Purdue/GT/U of I in light of my son's background as provided ? These seem to be "all-the same sticker price" ?</p>

<p>5) Which ones will likely provide more grants, etc. ?</p>

<p>Sorry for the book, but any insight would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.</p>

2

<p>You can aim higher in my view. How about CMU? I am pretty sure it is possible if he applies to the School of Computer Science and Engineering ED. Of course, no guarantees here. But he seems to be very accomplished. You could also try MIT, Caltech etc. but those are super reaches for him based on the SAT score. His SAT scores would need to be better for CMU, possibly.</p>

3

<p>Also, how about RPI? RPI is very good and he will get in there. Also RPI has the Rensellear Medal winners who get approx. $15k or something. I don't know the details. There is a member by the name of originaloog whose son get a huge amount of merit aid at RPI and is a Rensaellaer (sp?) Medal winner. Rensaellear Medal is given to participant schools, so you'd need to inquire whether your son's school is in the list. My friend's son is also going there, a Physics/Science student with approx. $15K of merit aid.</p>

4

<p>Thanks for the replies, will look into RPI. I keep reading in the forums of these kids with ACT's of 32 and Sat's of 750 struggling to get into the upper schools (inlc. of CMU) in the chances of admission chatroom). Seems to be a lot of competition and a lot of students..
CMU's average SAT scores are much higher than my son's (we will find his retake).. I thought MIT and Caltech would be less than a 1% chance for him, even if his SAT's were, say 720 across the board, and CMU the same way... will look at RPI...</p>

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<p>bummer - I don't have anything to add to the college suggestions you've received. But how about beefing up his application with a computer science contest? The computing olympiad has free on-line training programs and internet contests he might enjoy. He would get results from at least the first couple of rounds before colleges make their decisions, and might have something he could list as an honor. If nothing else, working on the training material will make him a really strong algorithmic programmer, which would help him in college.
<a href="http://www.usaco.org%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.usaco.org&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>not as good, but he might also be interested in:
<a href="http://www.topcoder.com%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.topcoder.com&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>Case Western? They give lots of merit money</p>

7

<p>I will check out Case Western and the contests, never heard of them, this is a great idea. I think CW is in Cleveland.. will check them out and have my son check at the contests... thanks to both of you !!</p>

8

<p>Rice is a slight reach, but could come through. Very good school.<br>
Rose Hulman is a great small school. One of my best friends graduated there and he is one of the best CS engineers around. Rolla has a good reputation. You could look east to OSU, UT, UTDallas.</p>

9

<p>Tulane is a well-ranked engineering school with EE/CS and is known for good merit aid. His projected stats would have had a good chance at earning him the DSA ($22K/yr) based on this year's experience (S got it with1320/94uw/122w/good music ECs but nothing outstanding). Their DHS (full tuition) requires a special application and project submittal - your S seems like just the type who could come up with a great project.</p>

<p>Such a school might be a better alternative wrt cost savings than a cc (unless the cc is a clear feeder to his top choice type schools; others here may be able to advise on that). At a Tulane/Case type school, he might just be perfectly set for four years, with no need for transfer. If he "wanted more", he could go the transfer route.</p>

<p>I'm thinking he's likely to be more engaged with students of similar bent and caliber at these schools, also get the full college residential experience, rather than still living at home.</p>

10

<p>I was also going to suggest Case Western and RPI. My CS son applied to both. He visited RPI and liked their program and campus. He also applied to MIT, Rice, CMU School of CS, GaTech, Washington Univ. in St. Louis. He did a lot of research on WashU and was impressed with what they're doing in the computer field. Rice ended up in his top 2 choices.<br>
CMU School of Comp Science is HIGHLY selective - much more so than the university. UIUC has a great program if a huge school isn't a problem.</p>

<p>Contests are a good idea. Writing about his passion for computer science in his essays, along with his activities in that area, will be helpful. I've also driven all over town hitting garage sales and even picking up computers and monitors people have set out by the trash can on the side of the road. My son has computers everywhere. I think he was able to get this across in his writing.</p>

11

<p>U of Illinois is very good for CS and has rolling admissions -- he will have a place to go, and they could give him a scholarship (so he won't have to pay out-of-state price).
CMU is great, but is very competitive for CS.
Wash U is good too, but he would have a better chance ED there (maybe ED II if he does not get into CMU ED?)</p>

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<p>My son is a math/computer science major at McGill., It it is a fine, fine school and very affordable. Big though.</p>

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<p>My son could have been yours, though mine had slightly higher ACT and SAT scores and lots of music EC's. Even so, he was waitlisted at CMU and deferred and then denied at MIT. OTOH, he received terrific merit aid at Tulane, which he understands send lots of people to great grad schools, so I would second that suggestion.</p>

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<p>Thanks for all the responses thus far.... Many great suggestions and we will also check out Tulane</p>

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<p>Hi Bummer, We are also from MO and my D’s resume is very similar to your son’s; different details but roughly ‘equivalent’. Her major will be Computer Engr and/or EE. We went to Rolla's open house this spring and were very impressed. We also visited Purdue, UIUC, and Bradley over spring break (should have included R-H). She liked Purdue and Rolla most. We feel it will be hard to justify sending her out of state/private unless there is a reasonable amount of merit money, esp. since she's happy with Rolla. But mm seems like such a crapshoot, we'll just have to wait and see. </p>

<p>D is taking 2 general ed classes at the local comm. col. this summer that are supposed to count directly to her major at Rolla. Between those and APs, she should have a semester's worth of applicable credit by the time she graduates HS.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
U of Illinois is very good for CS and has rolling admissions -- he will have a place to go, and they could give him a scholarship (so he won't have to pay out-of-state price).

[/quote]
</p>

<p>UofI is a great school, but they were really bad with finaid this year... S of our friends, an in-state kid with 1500+ SAT etc. did not get anything in terms of merit aid, and the need aid was far cry from covering the full difference between EFC and COA. :( </p>

<p>They are rated #4 in CS, and apparently, they can pick paying customers...</p>

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<p>Rice is cheaper than most private schools at $35,00 / year with room and board, and seems to really like athletes (based on people admitted from my school this year.) It's a very pretty, small (2500 undergrads) school. I visited and talked to a CS undergrad who was very happy there; he said that Rice's approach is intended to point out that the language is not important, but the concepts. Also said that his friends at UT all dropped out of CS (also a good public school for engineering stuff), but his friends at Rice have stayed in it. I think it has some sort of amazing physics department, but I'm not sure. I think that with your son's stats, it would definitely be a reach from in state, but they are trying to diversify to some extent, so I have this feeling it might be easier to get into if you're not from Texas. I also was told that it's a campus where people from all sorts of disciplines are good friends and hang out and whatnot.</p>

<p>I'm an incoming freshman at CMU for CS next year, and they do give out some scholarship money. Also, appealing there for more financial aid is generally successful if you can send them copies of offers from other <em>private</em> schools. I liked the people I met, sort of a quirky, geeky group, with a large contingent of I-was-rejected-from-MIT-so-I'm-here. A more highly ranked program in CS than any of the others I was accepted to (Rice, Northwestern, USC).</p>

<p>I found USC to offer quite a bit of merit money and all of their programs seemed very, very well run. I saw some demos of research going on there, and it seemed as though there was alot. I was offered a scholarship that included research, so if your son is interested in that, it might be worth applying to (if only to use as a bargaining chip for financial aid). About 15,000 undergrads there, and the same number of grads, I think.</p>

<p>My parents both graduated from Purdue and loved it. It's a pretty campus, all red brick, and in a nice area. I don't know much about their CS programs, though. Well respected in engineering, and lots of people think it's a private school because it doesn't have "Indiana" or "State" in its name.</p>

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<p>"UofI is a great school, but they were really bad with finaid this year... S of our friends, an in-state kid with 1500+ SAT etc. did not get anything in terms of merit aid, and the need aid was far cry from covering the full difference between EFC and COA.
They are rated #4 in CS, and apparently, they can pick paying customers..."</p>

<p>My son applied last year, did not ask for fin. aid, and did not put any extra effort into the app, but got several scholarship offers, including one that would make his tuition equal to in-state for all for years. I am not sure how they decide who gets merit aid...</p>

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<p>CS is impressive at CMU. S almost went there. One of the profs went to U Michigan. Other friend really likes GA tech. Others have mentioned the schools we also looked at.</p>

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<p>Originaloog here. I noted that Achat mentioned me in a prior post. I think the colleges you have zeroed in on and those mentioned by other posters are good ones though I do not know a lot about UMo-Rolla.</p>

<p>Regarding RPI and the Rensselaer Medal, it provides a $15k/year scholarship which does not require any min gpa, a good thing at "The Tute". However it is awarded to hs juniors by their high school. You would need to check out several things-is your hs designated by RPI for the Medal, was it awarded this year(both these can be answered on the RPI web site). Finally if its still available you need to call RPI and find out if it is too late because it is normally awarded earlier in the spring. Medal winners also get a free application(not a biggie but what the heck) and can apply EA, an option not offered to non-Medalists.</p>

<p>Re community college for a couple of years-while it would save money I would seriously discourage your son from considering this option. Computer science is a highly theoretical course of study which has little to do with learning programming languages. It is very likely that a community college will not have strong offerings or any offerings at all in core courses like data structures and algorithms, discrete structures, computer organization, methods of computing, etc. If money is an issue I suspect UMo-Rolla would be a far better option.</p>

<p>Regarding costs, this site's home page has a link to a FAFSA EFC cost calculator. You may find that your EFC is not that much higher than public university costs in which case cost should not be an overwhelming factor in selecting the colleges he should consider applying to as long as he applies to at least one financial safety.</p>

<p>If I can put in a little plug for RPI, our son had a great first year experience there both academically and socially. He is in their Minds and Machines program which is an interdisciplinary comp sci/ cog sci dual major focusing on artificial intelligence. He is finding that he is enjoying the cog sci courses as much as the comp sci courses. Next falls courses include computer organization, multivariable calc, philosophy-logic, and psychology-experimental methods. He may take a 2ch course to learn Perl which will not count toward his degree requirements.</p>

<p>If your son applies to Case, I suggest that he get his application in as early as possible to increase his chances for merit aid.</p>

<p>I cannot offer any first hand comparison of Perdue/GaTech or UIUC. However I did attend OSU so can give you some insight on the culture of a large public university. They are physically huge, a city unto themselves, with lots of school spirit revolving around football and basketball. And they can be intimidating to a freshman. However, they are also broken down into hundreds of academic departments, hundreds of clubs/organizations and other nonacademic niches where the student can thrive in. For instance, my civil engineering class had only 33 students in it total. We all knew one another and most of the profs in the department knew all of us. Its kind of like living in a city with a population of 150,000 but also living in a small neighborhood where you know a lot of your neighbors.</p>

<p>One thing to ask about at the public university is enrollment controls. I know that OSU employs enrollment controls for comp sci majors and many engineering majors. Enrollment controls employ minimum gpa requirements after 2 or 3 semesters to guarantee admittance into the major as a degree candidate. For your son this would be a good thing because the minimum gpa requirements are usually higher than a 3.0, but it insures that the department faculty/lab facilities will not be overburdened and that the students will be of a calibre to handle the workload.</p>