<p>Just to clarify, when you say Indian engineers, are you referring to US citizen Indians or
H1B Visa engineers?</p>
<p>EDIT: Seems like I misread the post.</p>
<p>I work with H1B engineers from India and other countries. One guy that I work with has been here long enough to raise his kids: his oldest is attending a good school and is studying:</p>
<p>Engineering!</p>
<p>How has he stayed here long enough to raise his kids when the limit one can stay is 6 years?</p>
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<p>You don’t know much about immigration.</p>
<p>He applied for a green card.</p>
<p>You never mentioned Green Cards, only H1B visas. I assumed he overstayed his visa.</p>
<p>He could have just married a citizen too.</p>
<p>There are lots of H1Bs that are PRs or Citizens working in engineering in the US and they are on the same footing that US born engineers are. They compete with the guys in India just like we do.</p>
<p>BTW, I’ve been in reverse outsourcing projects where I’m the remote guy working on a project managed in another country. It gives you a different perspective on a bit of what they go through.</p>
<p>But Indians on H1B visas generally make less, despite the BS claims from the industry on how they are paid the “prevailing wage.”</p>
<p>They may but they are on an equal footing when they become permanent residents.</p>
<p>This guy has a $450K home, is putting one kid through almost full-pay private university, his wife is a stay-at-home mom and he will be putting another kid through in a few years. He has two vehicles - typical American Dream type family.</p>
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<p>Actually my comment implied what you said. But I just want you to know that outsourcing isn’t as savage as the politicians make. It will happen one day, and it is now happening. It is bad enough for many people to lose jobs. But consider that companies split up the infrastructure globally: you see why outsourcing isn’t as savage as they claim every day on the freakin’ TV. Blame the globalists.</p>
<p>I do realize that certain areas are greatly affected. If I am not wrong some of the Microsoft tech support (phone service) is now outsourced to the Indian Microsoft.</p>
<p>But FYI, Tawniness complain about outsourcing too. Most of the customer support in Taiwan is now outsourced to China. So when you dial to the support, it gets redirected to a mainland Chinese representative. And now the Chinese is also complaining some textile and electronic manufacturing divisions are outsourced to the Indonesian and Vietnamese. </p>
<p>What the general public hasn’t realize is that many of us are being brainwashed by the propagandists. Maybe brainwash is a strong diction. I am a student so I can be an idiot after all.</p>
<p>“Can’t you do your job three to six times as efficiently as someone in India?”</p>
<p>Of course you can, if your willing to give up your life for 18 hour days. There is simply no way to compete with a $15k or even $20k a year engineer in India. Even if a company has to hire 2 foreign engineeers to match the productivity of one US engineer, the compnay still comes out ahead.</p>
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<p>Of course you don’t know what you are talking about.</p>
<p>There are costs other than salary for engineers. If you worked in the outsourcing environment, you’d easily understand that.</p>
<p>“There are costs other than salary for engineers.”</p>
<p>Yes, like benefits, which foreign engineers do not get. And Social Security and payroll taxes, which you do not have to pay for foreign engineers. </p>
<p>“If you worked in the outsourcing environment,”</p>
<p>Well, I hope I don’t because I don’t want to lose a job to outsourcing. And I could never have the nerve to outsource someone’s job.</p>
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<p>No. You are totally clueless.</p>
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<p>Everytime you shop at WalMart. Everytime you buy imported stuff from China.</p>
<p>I’m struggling to understand Homer’s motivation to bash engineering at every opportunity he gets. If you don’t think its a good career, that’s fine. Our country is vastly over-saturated with lawyers, doctors have to go through additional years of very expensive schooling and pay huge dollars for malpractice insurance, and those in the natural sciences require advanced degrees but are dramatically underpaid. There may be a few better alternatives to engineering, but no path is without its pitfalls…</p>
<p>I think he may be on the Chinese payroll, put here to discourage continued American participation in and domination of engineering. Of course, he better have another job, because I hear they pay crap wages.</p>
<p>Nearly any job can be outsourced, really, leaving primary care medicine, service/logistics jobs (McDonalds, etc.), and politics/government. Google “medical tourism” for example. As long as the labor market is not arbitrage-free, companies will outsource to save money. For some, it will work; for some, it will fail. Outsourcing is quite big now and many companies are cutting back on US payrolls. But if you are flexible (willing to move, accept lower salary/benefits if needed) and have high skills/talents, you should be able to survive the outsourcing wave.</p>
<p>There are lots and lots of people not only surviving outsourcing but thriving in the outsourcing environment. Do you add more value than someone overseas? How can you get to the point where you add more value than someone overseas?</p>
<p>Cisco has publicly stated that they will increase US hiring by ten percent if the US Government lowers the tax on repatriating foreign earnings. Intel has committed to spending $7 billion on US plants but the issue of repatriating foreign earnings is a sticking point. Our big US tech companies do want to hire in the US. But they have to do this in light of increasing shareholder value.</p>
<p>“Cisco has publicly stated that they will increase US hiring by ten percent if the US Government lowers the tax on repatriating foreign earnings. Intel has committed to spending $7 billion on US plants but the issue of repatriating foreign earnings is a sticking point. Our big US tech companies do want to hire in the US. But they have to do this in light of increasing shareholder value.”</p>
<p>^^^^</p>
<p>Sounds more like Chamber of Commerce propaganda to me. Companies make up all sorts of BS to convince the govt. to lower their taxes. Even if you lower their taxes, I guarantee you none of those promised jobs will materalize. </p>
<p>[Cisco</a> quietly outsourcing to India, cutting jobs - ComputerworldUK.com](<a href=“IT news, careers, business technology, reviews | Computerworld”>IT news, careers, business technology, reviews | Computerworld)</p>
<p>“I’m struggling to understand Homer’s motivation to bash engineering at every opportunity he gets. If you don’t think its a good career, that’s fine.”</p>
<p>I’m here to bash everything, so don’t take offense. I just seem to spend most of my time on the engieer boards since it seems to be one of the most active. But I also post on the law school and liberal arts forums. But the law school forums are nearly dead. Maybe people got the message and know to avoud law school like the plague. </p>
<p>People need to hear from the “devil’s advocate” so that they don’t fall for the same old talking points and propaganda. </p>
<p>“But if you are flexible (willing to move, accept lower salary/benefits if needed) and have high skills/talents, you should be able to survive the outsourcing wave.”</p>
<p>You mean willing to move to India? No thanks, I will pass.</p>