Confession of an "Average" CCer

Applying to College
1

<p>Hey, all.</p>

<p>The first time I posted my stats in the "What are my chances?" forum, several people told me that my PSAT was too 'low' and that if I wanted to get into the Ivies, that I needed to break 2200. I agreed with them. After this constructive criticism, I sat down with my books and started studying.</p>

<p>I took my first practice SAT test today. I got a 1990, exactly as my PSAT score predicted (199). You have no idea how much anguish I experienced at this low score. I realize that many people, including my friends, will tell me that this is a great score and that I can improve. I am not aiming for a perfect score. I am aiming to hit 2200. </p>

<p>My fear is that I don't have the natural talent to get a 2400. I've been using two books and online test prep, and am not getting any significant results. I review my answers and feel that I'm reaching a ceiling. My test is on March 10th, and I am scared that I am going to score lower than 2000.</p>

<p>CCers, I want to go to Princeton. I'm a dedicated student and very involved in school. I'm going to even start writing for a national publication next year! You would never be able to tell this just by looking at my scores. I fear that I'm going to get shut out of all my top choices because of my subpar scores. I realize that most of these schools are selective anyways and that I am setting my sights high. </p>

<p>My mother never even went to college and my father went to college in Pakistan, so they don't understand what it is like to get into a U.S. university, and the amount of work it takes. I'm in the top of the class and STILL you would not be able to tell this by my score. I have always called myself "no-talent overachiever" because in my schoolwork, I have always had to work twice as hard as my naturally talented friends. </p>

<p>I'm sorry if this sounds melodramatic. I'm still going to study very hard, regardless. I'm going to give my SAT my best shot. </p>

<p>Any inspiring stories, suggestions, or advice would be appreciated. </p>

<p>Thanks.</p>

2

<p>"To triumph without peril brings no glory"</p>

3

<p>I know what you feel like, everything down to the Middle Eastern heritage.</p>

<p>All I can tell you is what I'm trying to do. I stopped obsessing with getting into Caltech, Stanford, etc. Instead, I am trying to step back and stop running around like a lunatic (which is easier said than done when you're a lunatic), but I'm trying to find something I love and thrive in it.</p>

<p>If you don't feel you can do well on the SAT, then just do your best with the time you have. If you get a 2000, then okay. Princeton, I'm sure, has accepted someone with a 2000. Just do your best, and work on making your ECs phenomenal. </p>

<p>Just do your best, and be happy with it. Relax.</p>

<p>By the way, why Princeton?</p>

4

<p>Preparing with only 2 books and online stuff? I recommend these books:</p>

<p>The Official SAT study guide
Barron's How to Prepare for the SAT (23rd edition)
Kaplan Comprehensive Program
Cracking the SAT
11 Practice Tests for the SAT
Barron's 2400
Kaplan's 2400
Barron's math workbook
Kaplan's critical reading workbook
Kaplan's writing workbook</p>

<p>If you're really hellbent on that 2200+, then study those books hard. =)</p>

5

<p>Thanks, ponnan.</p>

<p>Optimization, I'm stuck in a sedentary culture that doesn't value education for women. This is not to say all Middle-Easterners do not appreciate education for women, but in my family, it isn't.. </p>

<p>At least in my family:</p>

<ol>
<li>Most women do not go to college.</li>
<li>Most women do not have jobs.</li>
<li>Most women who go to college do not get a degree.</li>
<li>Most women who get a degree do not have a job.</li>
<li>If women do have a job, they quit after they have a child.</li>
</ol>

<p>I'm seriously fighting against years and years of culture. It's hard, especially with my parents saying, 'Stay home,' since it is abnormal if a girl leaves home for college (if she goes to college at all).</p>

<p>The reason I'm very interested in Princeton is because I want to concentrate in Politics. They also have an Interdepartmental program in the Woodrow Wilson School of Public Affairs & International Relations. I believe this school is for graduates. </p>

<p>And one thing that my parents will love, since we make under ~30k with a family of five, is that they have very good financial aid and have removed student loans. My sister is also going to college and they have to cut back costs as much as they can. They're also a partner school with QuestBridge, which gives four-year full-tuition scholarships. </p>

<p>So pretty much, I'm very in love with this school. I haven't even visited it yet, haha.</p>

6

<p>Kyledavid80, I'm not rich, and my library takes weeks to get books. My parents have tried their very best in offering me the best opportunities - they are buying me AP prep books.</p>

<p>Some of my friends in college have already pitched in and have sent me boxes of books for my AP tests. I have asked the library already to reserve some prep books for me, but it takes a while for them to get the books from other libraries.</p>

7

<p>A good source of cheap college prep book is the library book sale, of course it would be more difficult to get the new SAT books.</p>

8

<p>murkywater:</p>

<p>"Kyledavid80, I'm not rich, and my library takes weeks to get books. My parents have tried their very best in offering me the best opportunities - they are buying me AP prep books."</p>

<p>My family is far from rich (<$20k/year), so how did I get my prep books (SAT, SAT IIs, AP, etc.)? I tutored. I worked. I got the money to prepare myself for tests, not to mention I got the money to go to conventions and conferences on a subject that I'm passionate about. How'd I do it? I worked my ass off.</p>

<p>I'm not blaming you, but really, do you think that using money as an excuse for a low* SAT score will get you into Princeton? No -- Princeton wants to see students just like you getting over these obstacles, not making excuses for their inability to overcome them. Does this sound harsh? Yes. Does it sound fair? No. Is it the reality? Yes, and that's why you have to work your ass off to make your dream (Princeton) a reality, too.</p>

<p>*low by Princeton's standards</p>

9

<p>Bomgeedad, I'll look into it. Thanks.</p>

<p>Kyledavid80, I worked during the summer, too. A lot of this money was spent for school fees. My parents forbid me from working during the school-year. I wasn't using money as an excuse for getting a low-score, but I suppose my response painted me in that light.</p>

<p>Wow, that was harsh. I never thought someone's words online could push me to tears, but I was wrong. And you really don't have to put an asterisk to explain your words. Maybe I'm really not the type of student for Princeton. </p>

<p>Thank you for your kind words.</p>

10

<p>
[quote]
So pretty much, I'm very in love with this school. I haven't even visited it yet, haha.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Your mistake right there. Believe it or not, you might hate your school after attending it, or knowing more about it. I mean my first choice for awhile was NYU but I really don't like NYC all that much and I don't have money so it probably wouldn't have worked out. princeton is not the end of the world and there are alot of good schools out there. Don't make Princeton your only choice. Princeton is basically the BEST school in the school and people who were in similar situations probably did work like crazy to get in. The competition is insane. I would not put too much hopes in it, to tell you the truth, for any students out there.</p>

<p>Apply to several matches and safeties, because everybody definitely need them to break their fall.</p>

<p>If you have other good stats, then your low SAT score might be over looked. This is especially true for other schools but for princeton... hm. The thing is there are alot of people out there with awesome ECs, stats, AND SAT scores. Just beware of this when you apply, try to be realistic. I'm not trying to put you down but.. that's just how it is.</p>

<p>There are alot of schools who give you whole bunch of fin aid, so do more research about schools. Good luck, i hope you make it.</p>

11

<p>murkywater:</p>

<p>Actually, that did not paint you poorly. People usually over estimate the value of the SAT score, especially in a private college that uses a holistic approach to admissions.</p>

<p>I'd say not to cry about the comment that Kyle made. It's not worth it. I'd say apply to Princeton, if that is what you want, but also look at schools that have a similar ethos. Some suggestions include: Davidson College, Dartmouth, and University of Richmond. Look at some others that are supportive of women, like: Mt. Holyoke, Scripps, Barnard, Wellesley, Agnes Scott, Bryn Mawr, Mills, and Smith, etc... And have a few EA schools like Dickinson, Centre, Franklin & Marshall, Wheaton (MA), etc...as back ups. Look for schools that gurentee to meet need as well, since cost is an issue.</p>

<p>You have good stats, but the stats alone do not tell the whole story. Use your application and recs wisely, and you'll end up at an excellent school. Don't worry too much about those that are quick to judge you or putting you down. I have quite a number of friends who are at the Ivies and at LACs that did not have SAT scores above 2000. Thankfully, most private schools are savy about choosing their students.</p>

<p>Keep your chin up. :)</p>

12

<p>Kyledavid80 forgot to mention that you should also find a cure for the common cold by Thursday. </p>

<p>Don't compare yourself to some group of annonymous-online -obsessive compulsive- cc's ; do your best, relax and go forward with your life - with our without Princeton.</p>

13

<p>Uyulove:</p>

<p>"Don't make Princeton your only choice. Princeton is basically the BEST school in the school and people who were in similar situations probably did work like crazy to get in."</p>

<p>People are mistakenly thinking that I DON'T work hard. Suddenly, because I'm not getting a 2200+ score, I don't "work hard". I've been studying for quite a while now. I would just like it if people would get off their high-horse about how low scores equal less effort. This is not true. I'm not a bad test-taker, but I'm not a great one. I've been through academic programs throughout my entire life and effort was never one of my weak points.</p>

<p>I've worked very hard throughout high school. I'm not going to list out all the difficult aspects of my life, because I don't want someone coming around and saying, "Well I did this, this and this.. so you should be able to do it, too,". Other people might be able to study from a few books and get huge score increases. This doesn't apply to everyone, and maybe it doesn't apply to me. </p>

<p>Suddenly, I have someone else on CC telling me that I need to stop making excuses for myself, when they know very nearly nothing about me to make this judgment. Just because it can be done does not mean that everyone can do it. I'm not angry or anything, but how can people make judgments about people without knowing anything about their life? </p>

<p>Princeton was not my only choice, it just is my top choice. I could also attend my state university and get a ton of merit aid. But I'm still unsure whether it would be a good fit for me.</p>

<p>That said, I do understand your point and will take that into consideration when I'm applying to schools next year, including some matches and safeties. Thanks very much for your advice. I do realize that I have a whole year in front of me to think about what schools to apply to.</p>

<p>IsleBoy:</p>

<p>Ahaha, I'll try not to cry so easily. Some of those colleges sound very promising. I've put them on my list, so I won't forget. Part of my problem is also finding a good match for me both academically and financially, as most meet one or the other, but not both. So my job is to pretty much search out those schools. Your list of women's colleges is very intriguing and I had never thought of those colleges before. Considering my background, maybe a women's college would be a good place for me to grow.</p>

<p>Maybe I might find someplace that I like better than Princeton, who knows? But my college search sounds very promising.. </p>

<p>Thanks very much for the advice. I'm feeling a lot better now. :)</p>

<p>Pearl:</p>

<p>Ahaha. I'm laughing so hard. Thanks, I needed a little bit of humor!</p>

14

<p>MurkyWater:</p>

<p>I think people have already given you most of the applicable advice (study guides, apply to back-up school, etc.) so I just have one thing to add - have you considered the ACT? I've never taken it, but I've heard that people who do "badly" (again, totally relative, as many people would kill to have your score) on the SAT do better on the ACT. It's probably worth a shot, at the very least.</p>

<p>At any rate, take a deep breath, and don't stress too much. Best of luck with your college search.</p>

15

<p>InvertedCommas,</p>

<p>I took a practice ACT and received a score of 29. I'm pretty sure that's still very low in comparison to those who will be applying to the schools that I am considering.</p>

<p>I'm not sure how colleges convert ACT scores.. what if I only send an ACT score? Will that give admission officers an incomplete picture of my academic abilities? I know next to nothing about the ACT, even though I live in a Midwestern state. Do colleges accept the ACT in place of the SAT?</p>

<p>Sorry if those are dumb questions. I've looked around and people say that it doesn't matter which one you submit. But if my SAT score is higher than my ACT score (relatively, how can you compare them?) then I think I'd need to figure out whether I did better on one than the other.</p>

<p>Any help would be appreciated!</p>

16

<p>murkywater, Princeton DOES accept the ACT plus writing in place of the SAT. I would strongly encourage you to take the ACT and see how you do. My daughter's ACT scores were better than her SAT scores. (She took each test twice and did better on the ACT both times.) To look up the SAT-ACT conversion table, do a Google search for "ACT SAT conversion."</p>

17

<p>I think you should know that I am a girl from a <25k family and my family does not value education (for women) either who wholeheartedly believes in what IsleyBoy said.</p>

<p>I think you, also, need to toughen up. I know it may seem unusual to say this, but I have always been very independent - I have to be. If your parents are going so far as to buy you AP books (which you mentioned), then they, obviously, value your education in some way, which is more than my parents do. I think you need to look into other schools, but still apply to Princeton if you wish,which you have done now, and I think that is great, so good job. I think you'll find a great deal of schools with amazing political programs (for undergrads, especially, that may surpass Princeton's program). </p>

<p>I, also, think that you feel that unless you get into an ivy league school, your parents won't let you attend college...or you won't feel empowered. I think you're running from your heritage. It may not be true, and I am making several assumptions, but it is what I did for a long time.</p>

<p>If someone's words regarding your SAT score online make you cry, then I really think you need to toughen up and get more confidence (which is easier said than done, I know). However, I think that would be better to write about in your application than a 2200 could ever be. Don't put so much emphasis on just a test score.</p>

<p>Princeton's looking for leaders, and you seem afraid. Take a chance. Get involved in politics (maybe something closely related to your parents' countries of origin - they might be more accepting of that). Speak about women's rights. Do something. If your parents don't support you, keep doing it. It's your life, not theirs (despite how often they tell you that you are their life and they should be yours).</p>

<p>I wish you the best of luck. I'm sure you will have a great life. Just relax.</p>

18

<p>ArkansasMom, I just looked up the conversions, and I do think I would do better on the ACT than the SAT.</p>

<p>Wow, thank you so much. I'm feeling hyped now. The PSAE is in April and part of it counts as the ACT. </p>

<p>I'm excited.</p>

19

<p>Optimization,</p>

<p>For the most part, I believe that my parents do those things just for show. They know it looks good to care about their children's education. On the outset, it seems like they do. But very often, when discussed privately, they are not so quick to place my education on the top of their priority list.</p>

<p>I'll take heed to your advice.. I do need to toughen up. Sometimes I'm shaken up easily. I do believe I have the capability to overcome my insecurities. I have done it before and I am sure I can do it again.</p>

<p>In a way, you are correct. I do feel that if I don't get into an Ivy-league type school, that I won't be able to go to college. I probably won't feel as empowered if I go to my state university and come home. It will be just like highschool right now. It's either that or my two hometown private universities. They are absolutely amazing schools, but the only reason my parents want me to go there is so that I can live at home. I'm not sure if you know how it feels to be constantly suffocated and cramped by people who obviously don't care about what you want, but only what <em>they</em> want. And if you do know that, you'll understand the impact it has had on me.</p>

<p>You are partially correct in saying that I'm trying to run from my heritage. </p>

<p>Of course, I am not happy to say that I am doing that. For all my life, I've seen women in my family do absolutely nothing for themselves. Their husbands are the dictators of their life. This is not to say the women in my family are unhappy or oppressed. At some point, they didn't believe education was important for them either.</p>

<p>Of course, the reason I became overly upset at Kyle's comment was not because he was stating that my score was 'low'. It was the way he stated that if he could do something, that meant I could do it, too. That kind of arrogance makes me very upset. I was looking for suggestions and was 'put down' by someone who knew very nearly nothing about me. But then again, that should have given me more the reason to ignore what he said.. </p>

<p>I hope this doesn't make me sound weak or indecisive.. I value my family, even if they don't give me the freedom that maybe other families give their children. I value them very much because they have taken care of me and because after all, they ARE what brought me into this world. </p>

<p>I'm ready to be independent, but I do not intend to completely turn my back on my parents. They aren't completely unreasonable people. Their views on education and daughters are based on living in Pakistan and being surrounded by a certain culture. I don't want to abandon my heritage completely, but if I am to do what I want, I will have to do this by default.</p>

<p>But I do understand what you are saying.. It is very difficult, but I do intend to become a leader. I might not have a plan now, or have a clear idea of how, but I do know that I will.</p>

<p>Thank you.</p>

20

<p>I think what you just typed should be reflected in one of your Princeton essays. </p>

<p>It is difficult for people to understand that, but, if you express yourself powerfully, I think it will shed a great light on your life. </p>

<p>I know that I will be speaking about my family and their views in my essays. I know that a lot of what you have said, I have felt and am feeling. In order for Princeton to understand, you need to tell them...because they can't accept or reject <em>you</em> unless they know you, and this is a big part of you. So, tell them who you are.</p>

<p>Hopefully, you will see yourself in a school you love a year and a half from now.</p>