Confession of an "Average" CCer

Applying to College
41

<p>you know why a lot more students don't get 2400's through hard work and dedication? Because there are more factors involved. But those factors don't include genetics. </p>

<p>Those factors include time, definitely. I doubt anyone can raise their score a few hundred points in one month, though a year, yes, they can. But that's not enough either, it takes consistent practice every day, not just one hour a week. It also takes using the right methods, and recognizing that if your Princeton Review tutoring course is not working, to find something that works for you. Most people don't do that. They stick with the same methods, same strategies, and that's also what leads to lower scores. </p>

<p>People commonly say "oh, well he never studied and got a 2400 on the first try". Who says he didn't study? Yes, he may have not studied much for the SATs, but you can be sure that he has studied grammar, arithmetic and reading very well since elementary school, through middle school and into high school. There are those types of people. But that is far from saying that they were born with the capability and others are not. ;)</p>

42

<p>
[quote]
But I'm still unsure whether it would be a good fit for me.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>How are you sure that Princeton would be a good fit? I know you work hard, but claiming Princeton as the best fit might not be the most logical move, especially if you need/want other choices.</p>

43

<p>Holy hell.</p>

<p>murkywater, this entire time, I thought you had actually TAKEN the real SAT and got an undesirable score. I misread, obviously. It was your first practice test! Of course it's not going to be what you want it to be! You're doing just fine. Keep studying, practicing new techniques, and taking practice tests. If you don't already have the Official SAT Study Guide, I'd recommend getting that--any way you can--before any of the other ones (though, as a supplement, Barron's How to Prepare for the SAT, 23rd Edition is awesome simply because of its vocab resource). Believe me, Princeton is well within reach for you. =)</p>

<p>Further, if you're a junior (and I assume you are), I'd recommend starting your essays months in advance, learning techniques and reading other essays, so that you can make your Princeton essays really awesome. That can really be what gets you in (of course, to complement your excellent stats).</p>

44

<p>cory123:</p>

<p>"Lets be realistic...if that was true a lot more students would be getting 2400's through hard work and dedication."</p>

<p>Thing is, those students often don't have the dedication required to get a great score, nor do they master the methods needed for them to do well. In addition, I think A-san is using '2400' figuratively.</p>

45

<p>PipingHotTofu, thank you! I really do believe that I have a long way to go, but hey, a journey of a million miles begins with a single step.</p>

<p>Tokyorevelation9, here is my score breakdown:</p>

<p>Writing: 670
Math: 610
Critical Reading: 710</p>

<p>This'll sound funny, but I only gave myself a 10 on my essay, even though I had specific examples, perfect grammar, and solid organization. I'm not sure how harsh the graders are, so I decided to give myself the second-best score to see how the rest of my score would turn out. Also, I figured if I graded myself harsher now, it would kind of be like training with 'weights'. Sounds weird, but yeah.. </p>

<p>I took this exam really late at night, ending the exam at 1:30 AM, which could have factored into my particularly low CR score (because I got a 75 on my PSAT for this section, so it doesn't really add up to me!) </p>

<p>What would I have gotten if I had given myself a 12 on my essay? I'm just curious.. haha. Also, my Math score seems about accurate, it's always been that low. :( </p>

<p>Thanks for all your help! Hopefully the score breakdown helps a little to understand my weak points.</p>

<p>Groenveld9, thanks for the confidence-booster. I think I can relax a little on my SAT score! :)</p>

<p>Cory123, hopefully my score helps out a bit. I know my biggest weakness is in the mathematics section. I don't know why my CR score was that low. Part of the reason might have been that it was really late at night, but even so, I do have to work on both CR and mathematics, just moreso on the latter than the former. </p>

<p>Olivia567, I was slightly discouraged. I still think Princeton is my first choice.. but I do need to seek out other schools. I have a real affliction for my lovely Princeton, that I do ;-)</p>

<p>Kyle, ahaha, yes, I haven't taken the actual SAT yet. Just a practice test. But I've got less than a month before my actual one, so I kind of .. panicked. Haha. I'm going to start practicing everyday for at least half an hour on my math, so hopefully that will catapult me above the 2000 mark (the 610 is seriously cramping my style!) Also, I looked at Gruber's.. any idea whether that is good? I'll look into the other book you're talking about.</p>

<p>Also, I meant 2400 exactly, which is why A-san's comment is kind of confusing to me. I'm sure a lot of people with 2300+ worked really, really hard. That doesn't mean they didn't work 'hard enough' and that's why they didn't get a 2400. It's hard to anticipate EVERY single question on the test, so for those people who get a 2200+, they've done a great job, and thus I don't think it was through any lack of effort on their part that they didn't get a 2400. But if A-san was talking about 'great' scores and 2400 figuratively, then I'd have to agree with him.</p>

46

<p>You can't completely ignore genetics. People are just going to be born with better memories, being able to understand things more quickly compared to other students, and other things which cant be achieved through teaching or studying. But you're right, someone can't just get a high score through inherent ability alone...high-performing skills are accumulated throughout a persons life, for example always being an avid reader.</p>

<p>Anyway...I've never had much trouble with the math section so I don't have much experience with studying techniques, but I know doing a large number of practice problems helps with any area of math. Also, make sure you familiarize yourself with important formulas so you're not stumped simply because you don't know the correct formula to apply. Doing a large number of practice problems will help you be able to quickly recognize problems and know how to approach them.</p>

<p>CR is usually the hardest section to improve but it seems you have it down. If Sentence COmpletion is where more of your mistakes lie, you could always pick up a vocab list. I memorized the SN 1000 and it helped a lot. Reading is tougher....there aren't really any quick study techniques here. If you have a large reading base, you'll do well. I always try to focus on the reading passages and not doze off or start thinking about something else, lol.</p>

<p>People often say the trick to Writing is just doing a lot of practice problems, and it worked pretty well for me. After doing a lot of practice, you'll be able to quickly recognize mistakes...there shouldnt be any surprises there if you've studied enough. Sorry, I havent taken the real SAT yet, so I'm not familiar with teh essay. I'm taking it in march, too. However, from waht I hear, getting a high score on teh essay isn't really that hard. Just make sure you have good organization and give strong support to your thesis while throwing in some fancy words in that are used correctly of course.</p>

<p>That's all, hope this helps...lol</p>

47

<p>kyledavid80: </p>

<p>This may not apply to everyone, but I know a lot of kids who have the dedication, but simply can't bring their scores up into the 700+ range, especially for sections such as CR, which are harder to improve through simply studying through a prep book. Even if A-san meant 2400 figuratively, even 2300+ is a high, and difficult srtata to achieve, and i'm sure there are a lot of hardworking kids who want to do well, but wouldn't be able to score that high.</p>

<p>However, often times I think people have trouble raising their scores simply because they haven't had a strong background in those particular subjects, and it's hard to cram so much material if you're trying to make up that gap. I find people who do well in school, but simply study for tests and do no outside learning of their own have trouble with the SAT. Areas like the CR, and even some math questions test a lot knowledge that isn't taught in school. This is when the knowledge you acquire outside of schools really helps.</p>

48

<p>As far as the SATs go, you really can't judge yourself very well on practice tests. They are more of a way to discover what areas you are weak in. Look for trends in the questions you got wrong and study those. Tackle your biggests weakness first. ( I know it sounds obvious but if you try to study everything at once you'll make things soooo much harder)
I think you need to just take the damn test and get it over with. RELAX and don't pressure yourself on the first time. And definitely DO NOT think while taking the test "this decides whether or not I go to Princeton" that will kill you. I know it's hard but just try to relax the day before and the day of the test.
Of course colleges look at your SAT scores but it is definitely not the only thing. Put a lot of time into your essay and get some awesome recs. College admissions is not based solely on SATs. I got a 2200 and was deffered by GTOWN, probably because I am not the best writer. You have a lot of things going for you so don't stress.
You really shouldn't rest all your hopes on Princeton, there are so many other great schools. If you're looking for lower cost, go south, you can get a good education for a much better price. If you get in to Princeton great. But if not, you have to believe that that is how it was meant to be, it will all work out in the end. Where ever you end up, just enjoy yourself. GOOD LUCK!</p>

49

<p>this might hurt.
if you can't get over 2000+ on your SAT, what makes you think you deserve princeton? sure, getting into an ivy league school is an honor/award for your "hard" work. but think AFTER admission. you are going to be surrounded by genius kids who probably got perfect scores on their SATs. why should princeton choose 1900 instead of 2400? i mean, do you have what it takes to compete among those kids?
if you do, then study and prove it. until you improve your scores, don't even ask for sympathy in forum like this. it's pathetic. some kids study more than you.</p>

50

<p>^^ Again, this can be argued by the fact that the SAT is not a true indicator of pure knowledge. Not to mention the fact that students can take it as many times as they wish.</p>

<p>There are many more variables involved within a student's worth or place at a school.</p>

51

<p>I think you need to take a step back and take a very realistic look at what your stats are and where you want to go. Looking through your past posts, the majority of your colleges (Georgetown, Northwestern, William & Mary, Dartmouth, etc.) are reaches. Your chances at Yale and Princeton are currently slim to none. Be practical- Princeton and Yale currently admit less than 6% of RD applicants. Princeton has ended its ED program, which certainly won't help you.</p>

<p>Of course, you haven't actually taken the SAT yet, and you can still prep for it. I do think you need to look through Common Data Sets (Section C) to see the stats of admitted students. This will give you an idea of where you stand and what you need to aim for. </p>

<p>My suggestions:
1) Start searching for a safety NOW. You said that you could go to a state school, but you wouldn't be happy there. There are <em>plenty</em> of schools out there that would willingly take you (perhaps with merit money) and would be good fits. Safeties should be the most well-researched colleges on your list. </p>

<p>2) Consider applying to a couple test-optional schools. There are several prestigious colleges on the list- Bowdoin, Sarah Lawrence, Holy Cross, Bates, and Bard are a few. Some, like Hamilton and Middlebury, will accept AP/IB exams in lieu of the SAT requirement.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.fairtest.org/optstate.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.fairtest.org/optstate.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

52

<p>Jaynele,</p>

<p>I didn't say I "deserved" Princeton. The way I think it works is that colleges have to "deserve" students, not the other way around. </p>

<p>Uh, okay. Yeah, I suppose after admission I'm going to be surrounded by smart students. Thanks for stating the obvious?</p>

<p>And I suppose you're right about the SAT. It IS true that SAT determines one's value in the world! </p>

<p>You're so ridiculous that I laughed out loud at your post. I have no idea why you would lash out at me for no reason, but I think it might be because you have nothing better to do. In that case, go study for something? I don't know, do something besides be mean to people on an online forum. THAT is pathetic.</p>

<p>I've gone through some of your posts and realized that you're nothing but a negative person. I dug this out of a thread that you posted out of, which you probably didn't even read, but will give your misguided soul some guidance, because I don't think you're a completely hopeless case! </p>

<p>Another CCer posted this:</p>

<p>"Some of you are very hard on each other. When you get to college, read Howard Gardner's theory of multiple intelligences; IQ's and SAT's only measure two of seven kinds of intelligence (rational, analytical) but don't touch: musical, kinesthetic, interpersonal, intrapersonal and one more that I can't remember right now. There are also those who work well under timed tests but don't compose a good essay, unlike the OP who got an 11/12 on her SAT-I Writing essay, even under timed pressure. Whoever said on this site that OP has "no chances" should learn a lot more about communication and motivating others. I know it's the style among kids to be brutally honest, but this post fairly ripped the OP apart. Why do that? She has a gappy presentation, with strengths and weaknesses. Schools that put lesser or no emphasis on SAT's have made those choices for a reason. Too many high-scorers with insufferable personalities, once they arrive on campus, who give nothing out to the community. Ease up."</p>

<p>Learn anything? I hope so!</p>

<p>How about if you don't have anything constructive to say, keep your mouth shut? How about not respond on a thread where you just bash someone asking for help? It was your choice to respond on a thread where you had absolutely nothing valuable to say. Unlike some of the others who are harsh but constructive, you just wasted my time. Good grief, you're sad.</p>

<p>I hope I don't go to a college full of sad kids like you. :P</p>

<p>Christalena2, thanks.. :)</p>

<p>Warblersrule86, </p>

<p>I DO realize that Princeton is a reach. I think everyone knows it's a reach, and you telling me that isn't the newsflash of the year. What IS a newsflash of the year is that I am already looking for colleges. I AM doing my job by looking for colleges that are a best fit for me. I'm not going to college tomorrow, sheesh! I'm going to apply to places where it IS likely that I will get in. And I'd rather have a list full of colleges where I actually want to go to, rather than a bunch of safeties that I'm not interested in. I am putting a lot of effort into this search, and CB really helps! As for "being realistic", I am! That's why Princeton is called a "dream" school for a reason. I really wish people would understand that :/</p>

<p>And yeah, Princeton doesn't have ED. But it has QuestBridge, and if I become a finalist, that's what I'm aiming for :)</p>

<p>And as for #2, I have a list of colleges, and some of the ones you listed are on there.</p>

<p>I've looked through CB's average scores for the schools, and yes, that includes Princeton. Do I seem dissuaded yet? Nope. It's not that I think I'll get in, it's just my dream school, and dream school it will stay.</p>

<p>Thanks everyone!</p>

53

<p>
[quote]
I don't understand where all this negative response is coming from. I DO realize that Princeton is a reach. I think everyone knows it's a reach, and you telling me that isn't the newsflash of the year. What IS a newsflash of the year is that I am already looking for colleges. I AM doing my job by looking for colleges that are a best fit for me. I'm not going to college tomorrow, sheesh! I'm going to apply to places where it IS likely that I will get in.

[/quote]

It may seem like it, but I'm really not trying to be negative. I've been through the admissions cycle many times on CC, and there are always many posters who get rejected at their dream schools and have to settle for their safeties that they really didn't think/care about. In fact, "how do I transfer?" threads are among the most popular after results come out. People apply to Ivies confident that they'll get in, blandly ignoring the fact that Brown and Penn reject 70% of the perfect-scoring valedictorians who apply (this # is higher at HYP). Just trying to prevent heartbreak here. ;)</p>

54

<p>Unlike those other people, I am thinking about my safeties. They aren't my 'desired' schools just yet, but I am thinking about them. And I'm confident in who I am and my abilities. This doesn't mean I think that I'll get in. If they deserve me, they deserve me. If they don't, then I shouldn't feel incredibly depressed. I don't need to be depressed about a school that doesn't want me. I just move on to a school that does want me, and wants me very much. </p>

<p>That's okay, heartbreak is a part of life! I don't run from it, I meet it head on.</p>

55

<p>"You're so ridiculous that I laughed out loud at your post."
"How about if you don't have anything constructive to say, keep your mouth shut?"
"Unlike some of the others who are harsh but constructive, you just wasted my time."
"Do I seem dissuaded yet? Nope. It's not that I think I'll get in, it's just my dream school, and dream school it will stay."
"I just move on to a school that does want me, and wants me very much."
"That's okay, heartbreak is a part of life! I don't run from it, I meet it head on."</p>

<p>Ooh, I'm seeing confidence already. :P [Assertiveness ftw!]</p>

<p>"But it has QuestBridge, and if I become a finalist, that's what I'm aiming for"</p>

<p>I'm planning on applying through QB too. Best of luck to you! =)</p>

56

<p>"blandly ignoring the fact that Brown and Penn reject 70% of the perfect-scoring valedictorians who apply (this # is higher at HYP)"</p>

<p>I was under the impression that HYP rejected about half ...</p>

57

<p>Oops, forgot:</p>

<p>“Also, I looked at Gruber's.. any idea whether that is good? I'll look into the other book you're talking about.”</p>

<p>I haven’t heard of Gruber’s. I would say the books I suggested are better (and I think this for various reasons: people I’ve asked on apcentral and on CC; numerous reviews on retail sites like Amazon and B&N, plus I read reviews by professional SAT tutors at <a href="http://cee-ae.org/prep_book_reviews/index.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://cee-ae.org/prep_book_reviews/index.htm&lt;/a> -- remove the hyphen in 'cee-ae'; CC seems to hate that letter combination). If you find that your vocabulary is very, very solid and you don’t have any trouble answering any of the CR word questions (as indicated by your 75 on the PSAT), then Barron’s might not be as much of a help to you as I thought. I’d say my vocabulary is pretty large, but not quite to the par that the SAT demands, so Barron’s is my good friend. =)</p>

58

<p>murky,</p>

<p>I don't mean to lecture, but I don't think aiming for one school specifically is a good thing. Yes, one can have a favorite and stuff, but to place a huge emphasis on a school that is a reach (for everyone as well) prbly is not a good idea. Just study for the SATs however you want, and wait to see what results you get. And if you can't get the score you want, then you just can't. No biggie. Are you a top 5 student? From there look at schools that are more a dream, reaches, and safeties. I would focus on improving you chances at some of the realistic reaches, whatever those may be.</p>

59

<p>

Wrong impression, unless you believe that HYP are less selective than Brown, Penn, or Duke.</p>

<p>Brown: <a href="http://brown.edu/Administration/Admission/gettoknowus/factsandfigures.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://brown.edu/Administration/Admission/gettoknowus/factsandfigures.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Penn: <a href="http://www.admissionsug.upenn.edu/applying/profile.php%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.admissionsug.upenn.edu/applying/profile.php&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Duke: <a href="http://www.dukenews.duke.edu/2006/03/admissions.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.dukenews.duke.edu/2006/03/admissions.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

60

<p>This is getting off-topic, but it is important: those colleges and HYP reject more than 70% of perfect 800 CR scores. They reject more than 70% of perfect 800 math scores. They reject more than 70% of valedictorians. But NOWHERE, NOWHERE does it say that they reject more than 70% of perfect-scoring valedictorians. They don't. A perfect scoring valedictorian cannot pencil themself in as admitted, but they are not rejected in huge percentages, and there aren't very many of them either. I don't if this is what people believe when they say "perfect-scoring valedictorians", but that is what the words actually mean, and that claim is untrue. </p>

<p>To pull it back on topic, this is information that everyone should take as proof that although there is nothing that you can do to assure yourself admission, there are still plenty of spots for less obvious admits.</p>