Cons of being at the top of your class in college?

College Search & Selection
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<p>in terms of intellectualism/intelligence/test scoring. Because my gpa is so poor, it will limit me from going to any college where i would be in the middle of my class. And also because i can not afford full tuition, i have to look even farther down my list at schools that will give me a scholarship. Because of these 2 factors, its quite likely my test scores will be way above the schools 75th percentile. </p>

<p>for those that are/were in the top of your class, is it still possible to have a great college experience or are there some cons like:</p>

<ul>
<li>harder to fit in</li>
<li>less intellectual stimulation / boredom
and others?</li>
</ul>

<p>my act score will most likely be 33 and yet i dont think Cornell college with an average act of 26 will even give me a full ride. </p>

<p>Im just worried that, because im not the most tolerant person when it comes to intellectual competance significantly lower than my own (sorry), that i just wont be happy at any of the colleges that would want me. Even for my reach schools, im way out of the box for test scores. and all the places i would love to go to aren't even on my list.</p>

<p>what were your experiences in similar situations?</p>

2

<p>2 things,</p>

<p>1) You'll find that regardless of people's SAT scores, every college has smart kids who place academics at the peak of their priorities and will push themselves.</p>

<p>2) Don't assume because of your SAT scores that you will be at the top of your class. While different colleges require different amount of work to be in the middle of the class, its nearly universal that all colleges will require extensive amounts of work to be at the very top of the class. In short, you academic experience at college is only related to how much you want to put in.</p>

<p>If you want to graduate with a 2.0 (C average), you'll be able to almost anywhere with doing no work. To graduate with a 3.7+ (A- to A) average, you'll need to do a lot of work.</p>

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<p>I especially agree with Jags point #2--don't count on being at the top of your class just because you have good test scores. </p>

<p>Why do you have such poor grades? If you lack study skills or time management skills, things aren't going to get better for you in college unless you have a plan in place to improve in those areas. A boy from our high school went to Indiana on a full tuition scholarship (out of state) and had an SAT of about 1550/1600--and flunked out.</p>

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<p>most colleges dont rank students.</p>

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<p>college isn't high school... nearly everyone in college is there because they want to further their education, not because "they have to be" or "mommy made them", therefore eliminating the "it's not cool to be smart" dynamic. i don't think being good at school makes it any harder to fit in.</p>

<p>and, i agree that test scores are not everything. even if you are better in math/grammar/vocabulary, SATs are no indicator of how well you think/how insightful you are/how creative you are.</p>

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<p>You have to realize that most socializing in college takes place way outside of class. It's a very different dynamic than in HS, where everyone but your closest friends only ever sees you at school or school functions. People will know you study, but everyone studies to some extent or another. And just because you study a lot doesn't automatically make you a "smart" person. And while you may make some friends in class, most will come from organizations or living arrangements.</p>

<p>Also, major, major, major point - in college no one cares what your test scores were. If you're going to be that ******* walking around going, "I got a 33 on my ACT, what about you?" you deserve to have a tough time fitting in or making friends. While I was in college, the only time we ever cared about a kid's ACT score was during fraternity rush. And that was only in determining if we were going to contact the kid or not. Once we met him, and got to know him, I sure has hell didn't care about whether he got a 36 or a 24, only that he was going to be a good fit for out chapter, that he would work hard and be a good brother.</p>

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<p>"Im just worried that, because im not the most tolerant person "</p>

<p>You just might want to worry if people can tolerate you. I know you didn't mean it the way it reads, but that's an awfully big head to get through doorways isn't it? </p>

<p>While you have good scores, you'll find kids with better, not just at the ivies either. I can name at least two at small LAC's. It's a big pond now, you won't be the biggest fish with your numbers. How you fit in anywhere isn't a basis of intelligence, it's a basis of personality. People care a bit more about that than your ACT's.</p>

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<p>sorry for sounding arrogant and pompous (my writing often comes off like that) what i meant was:</p>

<p>in my HS, there are alot of kids that do not like learning, dont use their intelligence, are very superficial, dont know how to think for themselves, etc. And all of these kids are going to college, many of them have 4.0's, etc. the only way i have to measure the students abilities is with their test scores, since gpa's and EC's are not easily found/measured/displayed in college books. Even though the correlation is probably weak between test scores and Intellectualism/Non-superficiality, it is the easiest and crudest way to measure the student body. </p>

<p>and when i meant top of the class, i meant like willingness/ability to question fundamental truths, learn outside of class, debate endlessly about big questions/ideas etc. At my highschool, there is virtualy none of that, even though im in one of the top schools in my state. I just dont want 4 more years of pop-culture education in college.</p>

<p>im not saying "i got a 33, you only got a 32, so im better/smarter/awesomer then you, please dont talk to me moron" im worried that a huge gap in scores would be less of a good fit then somewhere where i can be as close as possible to the middle. im willing to go into debt to attend the best college i can get into if it also means the best fit.</p>

<p>is it bad to narrow down colleges by using test score results? i eliminated every college whose 75th percentile ACT score was 27 or below. Considering the 6 point difference between that and my probable score, could i really have been too harsh?</p>

<p>when i said "im not the most tolerant person when it comes to intellectual competance significantly lower than my own" i meant intellectualism, not intellectual competance.</p>

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<p>I guess my 26 makes me a total moron. I am near the top of my high school class, and I have a 26. Am a dumb? No. I do better than kids who got a 36 ACT. Wake up buddy. With that attitude you will make no friends. As for as I am concerned you will probably not even get a 33. It is easier said than done.</p>

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<p>did i say something wrong again? either my english skills suck or im a total *****. if its the ladder then i am sorry, please ignore this whole thread.</p>

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<p>Hello whatismouse: You are walking on thin ice in some of the things you say; be careful when you claim intellectual superiority as it usually rubs most people the wrong way, even ones who are quite confident in their intellectual strength. </p>

<p>But I think I get what you are saying....you are talking about intellectualism as you say vs. intellectual competence. </p>

<p>You should really choose your schools in terms of intellectualism. Some places are naturally much more so than others. While there is more likely to be greater intellectualism at smarter schools, this is not at all certainly so. It's that simple. Since you mentioned Cornell, but you are not sure you can get there, there must be other places you can identify that are worth considering.</p>

<p>Examples of places I think of being more intellectual, completely randomly (and way open to correction or suggestion by others):</p>

<p>UChicago
Cornell
Berkeley
Columbia
Sarah Lawrence
Rhodes
Reed</p>

<p>This was just off the top of my head.</p>

<p>The problem I have with your original post is two-fold:</p>

<p>1) If you're that smart, how come your GPA is so low? Is it that you were simply understimulated? This is possible. I had a friend in high school who was terminally bored at a decently challenging high school (and a top-rated one). His perfect SAT scores got him into Berkeley (at the time, I think it was more possible than now) and he absolutely blossomed in that environment. If you are one of these, I would suggest going to a larger school with lots of options for everything. You'll find something that suits you.</p>

<p>2) If you go to the right college, you will find real adults who appreciate intellectualism (large schools provide a lot of options, if they're good, and small schools can fall more easily into an anti-intellectualism rut, even if they're good, so choose small ones carefully). It won't be high school anymore. And I guarantee you there will be people smarter and more intellectual than you unless you shoot way low. You sound like you are chomping at the bit in a high school where the expectations are low. It will end soon, and if you choose right, you'll find college to be completely different and a place where hopefully, you'll come into your own.</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

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<p>Jake, you do better than kids in school with 36 ACT's? They must be really lazy. =p</p>

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<p>I don't know why everyone is being so antagonistic toward whatismouse, nor why he feels a need to apologize. He certainly didn't come off as conceited or pompous to me.</p>

<p>The problem is this: there are tons of grade-motivated students who have perfect 4.0's at both non-competitive and highly-competitive schools -- the former situation the result of lax curricula and similarly lenient grading practices, the latter caused by undue effort on the part of the student who studies for hours every night to get a grasp on the material.</p>

<p>These approaches to experiencing education are not at all without merit. It is certainly admirable for students to dedicate themselves to subjects of study in which they find a challenge, but what about the student who has studied the subject earlier or even is approaching it for the first time yet finds the course ridiculously easy?</p>

<p>What a tragedy and a disappointment for students of the latter sort to attend allegedly rigorous high schools, hoping to find therein environments that encourage learning for its own sake, only to find a few peers inclined to intellectual debate and a slew of students who don't care at all about what they're studying or why they're studying it, who don't have the slightest clue as to "why does it function this way?" or "why does it matter?" other than "the textbook says so! I don't like to think on my own, that question hurts my head lol!" , and again don't care as long as they get an A.</p>

<p>What a shame it is when other students fail or receive C's and D's on every test, only to have their grades inflated to A's by the excess of notecards, mobiles, posters, and notebook checks that the teacher foists upon them -- assignments that the teacher blatantly pronounces to be an expedient to two purposes: to fulfill the grade quota that the principal has instituted, and to "help A students" with their grades.</p>

<p>Excuse me, but shouldn't A students get A's based on tests, which actually measure their knowledge of the material? What about the student who has self-studied every college textbook he can afford on organic chemistry and advanced molecular biology, only to get straight D's in the subjects because he is so incredibly disappointed that AP courses in those areas are complete and utter jokes and does not feel the barest compulsion to waste his time writing the definitions of terms he already knows regardless of the fact that such trite exercises constitute 40% of his grade? Isn't that time spent on making a mobile better spent reading, studying, and learning rather than going over old and elementary material?</p>

<p>Whatismouse, apparently, is a student of this nature, and has every right to be concerned about what the situation will be in college. The sad part is, even though colleges may be familiar with certain schools for their academics, they don't necessarily know how grades are assigned (based, in my example, 60% on tests and 40% on worthless nonsense).</p>

<p>My post may be perceived as tangential but it gets at the heart of the TC's dilemma; the only reason he worries that he may not be accepted at recognized "intellectual" schools is because of his GPA which is probably not reflective of his knowledge in those courses. Also, this is not at all an indictment against students with high grades, just those with high grades who don't like thinking and insist on talking nonstop about their grades and how much they hate their classes and how they're beating the system.</p>

<p>I recognize that he is also predicting the intellectual environment of certain schools based on SAT and ACT scores, but that's at least as permissible as assessing students as "lazy" or "unmotivated" or as "slackers" based on GPA as some of you do.</p>

<p>I would suggest you at least apply to some of your preferred schools. Even some Ivy League universities accept students with 2.5-3.0 GPA's (according to CB) and you might stand a chance at becoming a part of that statistic provided your other academic assesments are stellar (which you say they are).</p>

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<p>"either my english skills suck or im a total *****. if its the ladder then i am sorry" </p>

<p>I just found that funny.</p>

<p>Anyways I was at the top of my class AND god good SAT scores and whatnot. For reference on my HS, the only person above me went to Duke on a full paid merit scholarship, and the person below me went to Duke with a 2400 SAT and happy basketball thoughts. Some lowers are went to princeton/other ives (nobody applied to harvard- go figure) and our 10% mark (of 420 students) person got into Pomona. we = good school. in the end due to money I ended up going to UC Riverside on full tuition scholarship after getting into some nice places with no offers. Although I am probably considered one of the smartest people here (25 unit / quarter - 4.0 & doing independent funded research) I can say, despite what u may think, all colleges are filled to the brim with smart motivated people who will often make you 2nd guess your own IQ. Also, you will not be alone in the situation of being smart but not going to the best college.</p>

<p>And if it is that big of an issue - apply to the honors program at whichever college u end up at. Those will be the smartest and most motivated students, plus you often get sexy perks like extra money and priority registration.</p>

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<p>^
I find it hilarious that people need to stroke their high school's ego like that--for no apparant reason. 1) Why? 2) Who cares about their high school that nobody has ever heard of? I wouldn't even be surprised if he made half the information in that post up, lol.</p>

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<p>If you are referring to me, I was simply trying to indicate what academic level I was used to in high school so I as to appropriately add my input to a topic regarding a person who is worried they wont go to college with enough smart people.</p>

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<p>And Seiken does make a great point. At any college you will find students with whom you can connect, intellectually or otherwise. You don't have to go to univerities with a SAT IQRs of 700-800, but at the same time don't completely blow them off assuming you have no chance of getting in.</p>

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<p>Eh even though you can find kids that are "intellectual" at colleges ranked much lower than typical colleges on CC, the density of those kids is much lower. Sure anyone can find smart people at college, but I find that learning in a community where my friends are often smarter than me inspires me and pushes me to my limits.</p>

<p>Honors colleges are a pretty good solution though, but imo are no substitute for pwn sauce colleges.</p>

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<p>I too don't think you're being arrogant, whatismouse...I think you have a legit concern. Sorry, I DO think someone who can get a 33 (esp if you didn't take multiple coaching courses) will, let's be safe, think <em>differently</em> from someone with a 26.</p>

<p>The honors idea is a good one, IF you can get in, if not I'd suggest a large school, like a UMD or UWisconsin. They'll have a wide range, including a large number of "smart" kids (like you!).</p>

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<p>He thinks differently from me because I got a 26? For your information my IQ is very high...... I think it's safe to say that a test score does not make you more intelligent. Put me in the classroom, and I will be near the top of the class no matter what my score is. You are being ignorant if you think that someone with a 26 is not equally intelligent. Test scores do no determine intelligence. You know why I do better than kids with a 36 in my school? I do better because I am intelligent and motivated. Do not tell me they are lazy. Go read something else besides a math book and open your eyes. Wake up, this is the real world. A test score does not make you think differently.</p>