<p>Nationally, self-reported survey data on underage college student drinking over the prior month consistently comes in at around 60%. Having zero tolerance for a behavior that is more the cultural norm than the exception would create mass disruption on most campuses with a sizeable portion of each entering class being sent packing at random times throughout the year. To me and to most adults, a speed limit of 55 means to drive somewhere between 50-60, keeping the average around 55. If I were pulled over and arrested every time I hit 56-60 in a 55 zone, my community would seem an intolerably hostile place and my ability to be productive within it would be impaired. All colleges and universities exist within municipalities which have police forces that enforce the law. Most schools look at their priorities as focusing more on quality of life and education. Non-high risk alcohol offenses will typically bring responses that begin with education and become more punitive if the student fails to respond responsibly. Behavior - substance abuse-oriented or otherwise - that disrupts the quality of life for others or puts the person or others at risk is typically treated much more urgently. But bear in mind that the first line of authority in the residence halls is always a peer in the role of a paraprofessional. Even the best-trained RAs will vary in thoroughness and judgment.</p>
<p>Hmm.... instance at Cornell:</p>
<p>A guy got in trouble because he was caught with alcohol in his room. Consequences were nothing too serious...</p>
<p>...and then he got caught with several bags of weed in his room 2 days later</p>
<p>Bye bye!</p>
<p>Well, you can buy beer at the grocery store, but to buy marijuana, you need to deal with a criminal. It can be a safety issue for both the student and those with whom he lives.</p>
<p>Our S's freshman roommate clearly had a significant problem abusing alcohol. He was an unbearable, inconsiderate oaf and his friends came in on a tripled-double falling over possessions and breaking them. S moved out mid-year freshman year at first opportunity.</p>
<p>What I heard later about this young man: late sophomore year, he was arrested by the town for drunk driving and came inches away from killing a fellow student pedestrian.</p>
<p>The college told him, "go home for a semester (or year, I'm not sure). Get yourself together (whatever that meant..rehab, counseling..). Then you may return and finish your education.</p>
<p>That's what happened, and he did graduate a year late.</p>
<p>That's a little bit different than kicking someone out for regular alcohol use. It sounds as though his patterns got him into real trouble, so the college set up a structured plan and would take him back if he demonstrated improvement.</p>
<p>Students who break alcohol policy or drug policy at school, may not get "kicked out" of school, but they may certainly be told they no longer can reside on campus.
I'd think that is usually the initial step taken unless the behavior is very extreme(i.e. needs more intervention) and is accompanied by poor grades. Usually a person who is having trouble with drinking/drugs is more likely "kicked out" because of declining academic performance than because they were "caught" breaking the alcohol/drugs policy.</p>
<p>These kind of things always remind me of the saying...</p>
<p>I can't tolerate intolerant people.....</p>
<p>An underage kid at my S's school was kicked out of the dorm not because anybody actually caught him red-handed with the beer in his hand but because his RA saw pictures on Facebook of him and some friends in the room drinking. The RA reported it (and became very unpopular) and the kid was kicked out of the dorm for spring semester. Just one more reason to be careful what you put out there online for anybody to see.</p>
<p>I realize taht some schools may have contracts that students sign- I think that SPU used to ban drinking, even if you were of age and it was off campus- but I think logical consequences should be the rule-
NOT that I am FOR anyone drinking to excess- but I think there are many worse things than having a beer with your friends even if you are only 20.</p>
<p>I don't think RAs should be made into police-
That actually kinda gives me the creeps.</p>
<p>There is a NIAAA-sponsored website which has links to the drinking policies for many colleges in the US:</p>
<p>At S's school, getting kicked out of school for a semester/year is called a "suspension"; getting kicked out of the dorms for disciplinary problems is either a deferred suspension or probation. Regardless, these all require disciplinary proceedings and are all black marks on your record unless you fulfill the sanctions requirements. Academic performance has nothing to do with it. </p>
<p>S attends Northeastern; he got a deferred suspension last spring and was kicked out of the dorm, he will be on disciplinary probation this upcoming year. This was his first offense, he wasn't even caught in the act, but he had messed around with the fire extinguisher in the dorm, which unbeknownst to him automatically triggered the fire alarm. The minimum sanction for tampering with fire safety equipment is deferred suspension. Getting caught drinking would have been more a slap on the wrist since his school follows the 3-strike drinking policy.</p>
<p>Which brings up an important point. Young people do stupid things when they have been drinking, even when they know (or should know) better, because they have been drinking and are not thinking straight. Anyway, students should not just be aware of their school's drinking policy and how strictly it is enforced, but also other policies for actions that might result from drinking-related behavior. Will this deter them? Highly doubtful, at best, they may just try harder not to get caught. And for most who drink at this age, they are NOT just having ONE beer, which is why the potential danger is much greater than it should be.</p>
<p>LOL: assuming what the tour guide tells an anxious parent is gospel is rather foolish. Of course they aren't going to say how REALLY available alcohol and drugs are -- they're gonna spout out the school's written policy. What's needed is great lines of communication w/our kids -- for their own potential substance issues and how to deal with situations when others are doing it. Some schools have a more prevalent drug/alcohol culture than others. Some schools really are dry (religious schools, e.g.)</p>
<p>DD told me last night that someone she knew from a summer program had her admissions revoked during freshmen orientation because she was drinking to excess-had to go to the hospital. yikES!</p>
<p>"More or less, as long as you aren't infringing on others when you're drunk, drunkenness itself is not grounds for punishment."</p>
<p>I think this is a pretty good policy, and one a lot of schools follow on the ground. Most schools are not Breathalyzing kids at the dorm door, nor should they be. But if you're being loud, disorderly, puking in shared space, etc...colleges will react, and IMHO colleges should be a lot stricter than they usually are about that kind of thing.</p>
<p>At Harvard, you won't get in trouble for being buzzed in your dorm, even if you're a freshman, but the freshman dorms are dry in the sense that you can't possess alcohol there. The RAs are graduate students and university staff, not upperclassmen, and they will usually just make you pour out the alcohol for a first offense. Two or three strikes will have much worse consequences.</p>
<p>FWIW, Harvard is totally zero tolerance in its summer HS program, even for rising college freshmen who'd be subject to more lenient rules in just a few weeks. When my friend was a summer proctor, two of his kids, a rising Princeton frosh and a rising UVA frosh, got caught with a bottle in the Yard. Parents were called and they went home the same day. The administration also notified Princeton and UVA about the expulsion (both schools still let the kids enroll in the fall).</p>
<p>scansmom: "There is a NIAAA-sponsored website which has links to the drinking policies for many colleges in the US:"</p>
<p>Thanks for this great, informative link.</p>
<p>APOL, the story is that a prospie at my college a couple of years ago got sick from an alcohol/drug combination during admitted student weekend, went to the ER, and had his admission revoked.</p>
<p>Just got back from son's orientation at Virginia Tech. There is zero tolerance for drugs-if caught you are gone. Alcohol has a 2 strike policy and after that you are gone. Now this was what parents were told, students also. Now how it is enforced I don't know. "Back in my day" there were policies also, but RA's told us what happened behind closed doors and stayed behind closed doors weren't a major concern. Wonder and hope things are different now.</p>
<p>People who are drunk or are high on drugs are prone to harmful and also disturbing behavior. Other students in the dorms should not have their rights to safety, quiet, etc. infringed upon.</p>
<p>Considering that about 60-70 percent of college underage kids drink, a zero tolerance policy doesnt really make any sense. What are you gonna do, kick out over half the school? And why should a few kids who get caught get so much more severe consequences than everybody else who just got lucky and didnt get caught? Pot i can understand but alcohol...nah.</p>
<p>sonssecty - True, but there are other forms of resident student behavior as well that infringe upon the rights of others. If the college's enforcement is aimed specifically at the use or possession of alcohol, it doesn't address the other disrespectful behavior. An alcohol approach that focuses on responsibility and refraining from problematic behavior allows the enforcement of alcohol regs to be part of a broader-scale effort to teach students to be respectful toward others.</p>
<p>At the Miami-Ohio orientation, they spent a lot of time talking about alcohol, but little time talking about what happens to the students. I think they are still feeling their way, after another alcohol-related death this year. Some things I remember:</p>
<ol>
<li> Having a fake ID is a felony in Ohio, and remains on a person's record for life, jeopardizing futures of anyone requiring a security check for a future job or grad/law school.</li>
<li> All students beginning this year have to take an on-line alcohol course prior to enrollment.</li>
<li> If your roommate has alcohol in the room, and you are present, you are equally liable, regardless of your involvement. (Implication is that you need to report your roommate. At the least, make yourself scarce during parties.)</li>
<li> If an RA finds a party, he will take the IDs of everyone present, appoint one person to pour all alcohol down the drain (many RAs are underaged, and therefore are not allowed to touch the stuff themselves), and all students are reported to a certain office, which investigates.</li>
<li> There is campus police and city police, and either will often conduct their own investigations and file their own charges - the University has no control over their processes.</li>
<li> Drinking, in and of itself, seldom gets anyone in trouble. It is the stupid acts that result from drinking that get people caught -- trespassing, littering, disturbance of peace, vandalism, public drunkenness, sexual harrassment or risk behaviors.</li>
<li> A parent asked where kids are getting alcohol, and the answer was usually from older students or older siblings who visit, but they have even had parents who have helped their kids carry in supplies on move-in day!</li>
</ol>
<p>What was left unclear was what happens to students who are caught drinking. The speaker mentioned that they were currently discussing the futures of a couple kids who were repeat offenders who had caused some campus damage, and my D turned to me and asked, "What's to discuss?"</p>
<p>gadad and binx: I agree with your responses.</p>