D is trying to decide between the Ithaca College B.M. in composition and Bard College. Apparently the music majors at Bard College work with the same composition professors as the conservatory students, and D wasn’t interested in the 5 year double degree (mostly for $ reasons) so applied to the college instead. Programs of study at IC and Bard both look great, but they are of course very different. I like the idea of D getting the more well-rounded LAC education that Bard would provide but wonder whether a conservatory education is the better path to graduate school in composition. IC would probably be far more affordable for us, though we haven’t gotten the award from Bard yet. But assuming that isn’t a factor, any insights on LAC vs. conservatory for this discipline?
compmom16 sent you a pm.
Bard College’s music department for composition is one of the best in the country. And, yes, almost every opportunity is the same for the composers in the college vs. the conservatory. It’s funny because my son applied TO the conservatory, at first, for money reasons - because there’s a lot of merit money in the conservatory that is not offered in the college. There are some differences between the two programs - in the conservatory composers start private lessons the first semester. I believe in the college one would need to take the composition workshop first. (But that might be flexible.) The theory courses required in the college program are different than the conservatory and taught by different professors - the difference between studying with Kyle Gann in the college, and John Halle in the conservatory. The ensemble performance opportunities used to be identical - however, the conservatory just added an annual orchestral concert including current students’ works and I don’t know if it will be open to the college composers in addition to the conservatory’s. It’s worth asking about. Dawn Upshaw’s First Songs biannual concert program includes works by the college composers, as well as the conservatory’s. At Bard all the musicology courses for both the college and conservatory students are Bard College courses. Only Conservatory Seminar (the theory sequence) and Aural Skills are conservatory based.
Composition students in the college have wide aesthetics interests - from more popular music (rock etc.) to world music to electroacoustic to New Music to anything else you can imagine. There is no one dominant aesthetic. The conservatory students are working, mainly, in the classical tradition - as they would be at Ithaca. Because the composition department at Bard has historically been very strong (Joan Tower has been there for over three decades) graduates have not had any issue going on to preeminent grad schools and professional careers.
As for the liberal arts aspect of Bard - my son, doing the Double Degree, was able to take full advantage of Bard College’s phenomenal professors, and engaged passionate students. The academic courses probably inspired his musical world as much as the music courses. I am a big proponent of composers studying widely, and not just music. Their music will be much more rich because of it.
Just an added note regarding orchestral opportunities for composers at Bard College - every year there are orchestral readings for which all students are eligible. In addition, a graduation requirement in the college is to write an orchestral work which has traditionally been performed by the American Symphony Orchestra graduation week. The conservatory new music orchestra concert is what was added this year - Jeffrey Milarsky was the guest conductor.
Thanks – that’s incredibly helpful! For some reason the college catalogue made it look as though private composing lessons weren’t an option. This actually makes Bard seem a lot more viable. I think we’d better just visit and ask some questions. D is probably still leaning toward IC for many reasons, but I’m convinced that we should look into this.
Another way to compare is to check out the course lists of the two colleges. Here is the link to Bard’s spring course list. You can also see all the past semesters. http://inside.bard.edu/academic/courses/current/ The private lessons are called “Special Projects.” Composition music majors absolutely have private lessons with either Joan Tower, Kyle Gann or George Tsontakis. The only composer it might be slightly harder to study with would be John Halle, as he doesn’t cross over as much. The composition student could also study with the jazz and electroacoustic composers.
SPECIAL PROJECTS:
Special Projects are designed for music majors to pursue individual or group projects with a particular professor. Contact the professor with whom you would like to work for details.
Ah – thanks for clarifying that, SpiritManager. The “Special Projects” designation was my source of confusion.
You wouldn’t happen to know if there’s any talk of Joan Tower retiring, would you?
As far as I know she’ll be there 25 years from now. She’s a force of nature.
Ithaca has a great program that looks pretty multifaceted, as you have, of course, read:.
"As a composition major, you will gain a foundation in traditional Western art music, while having the opportunity to explore jazz, electronic music, film scoring, and other media. In addition to having individual lessons with our award-winning faculty, you will have the opportunity to work with renowned composers through our Karel Husa Visiting Professor of Composition series.
Along with our broad-based approach to composing, you can take advantage of the College’s other reputable programs. The School of Communications film students are constantly seeking student composers to score their films; performers in the musical theater program are available to perform student composers’ works in that medium; and the recording technology program provides access to students and facilities, resulting in excellent recordings of your music. To facilitate all this, there is a large technology laboratory, a technology workroom designed just for composers, two electronic music studios and several sound studios."
We found that looking at the actual curricula and course requirements helped a lot with the decision-making. It can often come down to BA versus BM and all that choice implies. For instance, Bard will most likely have required liberal arts courses for the BA that exceed those required by the BM at Ithaca. Is your daughter drawn to other academic areas or is she very focused on music? I personally feel it is fine either way, both for the next 4 years and for the future.
And pinning down how much involvement with Bard conservatory classes will be possible for a student in the college, will help too. Will it feel like second class citizenship to be a music student in the college versus conservatory? Most likely not (we know a student who did composition in the college and is now in a PhD program), but it would be good to check.
Thanks, @compmom. From what I’m hearing, the Bard students in composition are not at all second class citizens and have nearly full access to the same opportunities as the conservatory students. As you say, it’s really more a matter of my daughter’s commitment to each different course of study. At IC, music students take around 30 credits in the liberal arts. At Bard, it looks as though the music major is around 30-40 credits (not sure how much credit each class is worth but in any case it’s around ten classes) and I’m sure she could take considerably more than that, but she would certainly take at least 70 LA credits. Either could work for her – she has a lot of academic facility and plenty of interests in addition to a firm commitment to music – but IC would provide a much stronger foundation in theory, sight singing, keyboard musicianship, etc. She would take six semesters of theory plus orchestration, choral arranging, and counterpoint. Conducting as well. She would take the same number of music history courses at Bard and Bard would probably be better for ethnomusicology. Both courses of study (I believe) include composing in a class setting at first and private instruction after that, though at IC she’s guaranteed instruction all four years. Both schools have great electroacoustic offerings. Both have stellar faculty. My sense is that D needs IC’s foundation to do what she wants to do. I guess that was the impulse behind my original question. Do students who go the LAC route have a lot of catching up to do on the graduate level? The courses of study are so different, I find it interesting that both would actually prepare someone for DMA study, but perhaps the fuller liberal arts education is its own kind of preparation. Anyway, thanks to you and everyone else who has helped me out with this!
@Compmom16 - there’s no reason your D couldn’t take all those foundational courses at Bard - and theory from Kyle Gann - pretty amazing to have him as one’s teacher for that! Orchestration is taught by George Tsontakis, who is a master. Conducting by James Bagwell - who conducts the Collegiate Chorale in NYC. (There’s also a Bard Summer Institute in Conducting and a grad program - so there are options.) The vocal program is open to everyone - and it is extremely strong even though it’s not in the Conservatory. But, yes, Bard will require a wider distribution of classes in areas other than music. But, you’re right - Ithaca will be a more traditional program in its structure.