<p>In my search for colleges, I came across Bard and was intrigued. It seems like it has a goo music school with good teachers. BUT-it makes all of its students pursue dual degrees. How many of their music students are serious and will pursue a performance career? I know the program is relatively young and I'm having trouble finding statistics. My cellist son definitely wants a career in music and isn't sold on the idea of a dual degree but likes the look of the music program at Bard. Ideas? Insights?</p>
<p>I can only talk of what I have seen, but Bard has built a pretty strong conservatory in a short period of time, they have very well regarded teachers, and from a couple of people with insider knowledge they are determined to build a world class conservatory.From my experience with the program, the kids who go into the conservatory are quite serious about music and have as much intention IME as kids going to any top level music school, they are in the conservatory to seriously study music, it isnāt as far as I can tell pursuing a degree outside music and music is the āsidelineā, if that is what you are asking. I knew one very talented cellist who went there and last I heard of her, she was very happy being there, she was incredibly talented and musical, so hopefully that has some meaning:). I also think it speaks volumes that the head of the school is a conductor and musicologist:)</p>
<p>D2 was a student at Bard who studied music while there but not in the conservatory. Her take was that the conservatory is very strong and that the students are quite serious about their musical careers. Teaching is excellent, both in the college and the conservatory, and for both music and general subjects.</p>
<p>That dual degree is no joke, however. All Bard students are required to go through a competitive process to be accepted into a major in the college (some majors are, of course, more competitive than others) and all must produce a significant senior project. These requirements are so stringent that very few folks on the college side end up double majoring. For the music students, itās a 5 year degree, which makes it easier to complete both sets of requirements, of course.</p>
<p>I will ditto what @musicprnt said. One of my sonās friends just completed his third year at Bard. He too is a cellist and was one of the top cellists around from our neck of the woods. I spoke with him last summer and he told me he loves Bard. From what he described, the music program is top notch and very serious. The Bard Conservatory Orchestra actually toured China in 2012. They also give out some nice scholarships.</p>
<p>One poster here has a son who just graduated and loved Bard. I believe she is away but may respond in a week or so. I hear wonderful things about the conservatory and the college. My daughter objected to the fact that the conservatory students were required to do a double degree, howeverā¦everyone is different.</p>
<p>We thought about Bard. I have several friends with children at Bard. One studying electronic music. It is an amazing, serious, deeply intellectual place, but one complaint is the āfamous factorā There are lots children of many very high profile people. The person who gave me this advice is someone I think of as quite high profile and she feels the pressure! </p>
<p>Our DS will be a freshman at the Bard Conservatory this fall - Viola Performance. Although he hasnāt started yet, he is very excited! The Bard Conservatory Orchestra is actually just finishing up a tour of Europe!</p>
<p><a href=āEuropean Tourā>http://www.bard.edu/conservatory/tours/2014/</a></p>
<p>Our son chose Bard because of the Conservatory. The faculty on Viola are really hard to beat: both Michael Tree and Steven Tenenbom are also on faculty at Juilliard and Curtis and Ira Weller is at Mannes and plays for the Met. Our impression was that the conservatory faculty are all very well connected and plugged into the music world. On Cello, Bard has Peter Wiley (Curtis), Sophie Shao and Robert Martin is the Director of the Conservatory and also a cellist. Robert Martin is also a very nice person who made us feel very welcome!</p>
<p>DS is also academically strong and doesnāt mind the double degree requirement. He shares the conservatoryās belief that the second degree will give him a more well-rounded education and help him become a better musician. Because the program is 5 years, it looks like he will need to take on average about 16 credits a semester - totally doable! Here are some sample schedules: </p>
<p><a href=āhttp://www.bard.edu/conservatory/undergraduate/sample_plan/ā>http://www.bard.edu/conservatory/undergraduate/sample_plan/</a></p>
<p>When we visited for sonās audition, we were told that they have about 5 openings on Viola but that they were not likely to take that many. They are looking for Curtis caliber musicians (not my words) who also are willing and capable of doing the double degree. </p>
<p>Unlike Curtis, Bard does not offer automatic full tuition to all admitted Conservatory students. However, I do know of quite a few Bard Conservatory students who DID get full tuition (for all 5 years). In addition, they also offer some full tuition, room & board scholarships (again all 5 years). </p>
<p>We are definitely not āFamousā - hopefully he will still be happy there!</p>
<p>One strength of the conservatory is definitely the faculty. While it is impressive that the viola faculty members (for example) are so well-known and connected, how does it work practically? I assume a conservatory student has a weekly private lesson as well as a weekly studio class, is that true? It seems that those two classes must occur on the same day, since someone who also teaches in NYC is probably only trekking up to Bard once a week. </p>
<p>I donāt have any idea how a conservatory schedule is set up, Iām in the learning stages. I think it would be āniceā to have a private lesson one day, and a studio class/masterclass on a different day during the week, to help with absorption. Does anyone know if this is an issue at all one way or the other? I do understand that a conservatory student is saturated with music throughout the week, so maybe it doesnāt matter in the least. </p>
<p>Also, do the B.A. music students have access to the same faculty for private lessons as well as studio class? This is a very helpful thread, thanks for opening it up 2015Lalo.</p>
<p>These comments are very useful. The famous factor doesnāt bother me, and the idea that the dual degree is doable is reassuring. My son is very academic, maintaining a 3.92 GPA with AP classes, and would enjoy pursuing a major in history. But, he is definitely interesting in pursuing a cello career, so the dual major would just be for personal enrichment and making him a well-rounded individual. If that is the goal of making the students double major, I am all for it. If the idea of the double major is as a back up plan in case music doesnāt work out as a career, Iām not in favor of it. Getting in on the beginnings of a newer conservatory isnāt a bad thing, especially if it has its sights set on becoming world class, has great faculty, and offers scholarships. We might put this one on our list.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I can only speak from my Dās experience and she wasnāt a music major but only took lessons āon the sideā - she did not study privately with conservatory faculty (although lessons were included in tuition) but she did play in the college orchestra (separate from the conservatory one although they sometimes borrowed a few con students) and in quartets etc with conservatory students. </p>
<p>Thanks for posting this question about Bard. Can someone speak to the level of the orchestra? Are all the players in the orchestra students at the conservatory, or are ringers hired to fill in? A roster of excellent faculty is impressive, but it is only one part of the conservatory experience. Itās great for Bard to be looking for Curtis level students; just wondering if the level of the performing opportunities is high as well. Many of the YouTube videos are several years old now.</p>
<p>Has anyone here did the piano collaborative fellowship? Iām very interested in that!!</p>
<p>Iām on vacation but will be happy to answer any questions when I get back. Son just graduated. No problem at all getting two degrees. Perfect for him. Great orchestra. But for conservatory students and some graduates only. College BA students can audition but rarely get in , and, if they do they often transfer into the conservatory. There are Artist Diploma students now so not all undergrads. Son is a composer so I donāt know how studio classes work and all the comp professors are full time and live in the area. Itās different for the instrumental professors. As Stradmom said the music teachers are not the same for the college students and only conservatory students can study with conservatory teachers. Except in composition where the professors are the same. </p>
<p>Just to clarify, my daughter is strong academically but did not like the fact that the double degree was compulsory for conservatory students, on principle. If it had been a choice, she might have applied and taken advantage of it, which would have been wonderful given the quality of the school.</p>
<p>For people who are confused about double degree versus double major, which are different paths of study, google āPeabody Double Degree Dilemma.ā I usually post the essay but cannot right now. It is a good piece to read for anyone contemplating music study of any kind.</p>
<p>Meant to post that 85% or more go on for further musical study. At top programs. Several recent grads already have orchestral positions. But some students go on for PhDās in other subjects. Both directions are possible but second degree is not a back up. It is because the institution believes in the value of a liberal arts education. </p>
<p>Thanks, SpiritManager. Thatās what I needed to hearāthat the conservatory is dedicated to educating musicians who will pursue careers in music. I like the idea of having a liberal arts education to be well rounded. I think Bard will be on our list.</p>
<p>Leon Botstein (the head of Bard), believes strongly that to be a great musician you have to be a well rounded person and so forth, and it is part of the reason why the conservatory has the requirement for the double degree. I can tell you the conservatory is quite serious about its role in educating musical students, they seriously want to be a place known for turning out strong musicians. About the only knock most people say about Bard conservatory is that it is a relatively young program, so it doesnāt have the track record that schools around a while have, but based on what I know of the program, they arenāt to conservatories what the 62 Mets were to baseball:).</p>
<p>Iāll throw a plug in for the Oberlin dual-degree. Itās also a 5-year program. There are lots of smart kids in the college and lots of great musicians in the conservatory.</p>
<p>Back from vacation and happy to answer any questions about Bard College and the Conservatory.</p>
<p>The caliber of students in the conservatory is extremely high. These are students who would be competitive at Curtis and Juilliard etc. but are also interested in continuing their academic education at an equally high level. The pursuit of the dual degree seems to work fine for the majority of the students. The ones who struggle the most seem to be the Asian students for whom both English and an American style education are very foreign. It is an extremely international student body in the conservatory (and about 15% overall in the college.) In addition to Asian students, there is a large contingent from Hungary as there are specialized scholarships for Hungarian students. But there are also South American/Central American students, Western and Eastern Europeans etc.</p>
<p>There are now enough students in the conservatory, including the post grad Artist Diploma students, to fill the orchestra for the majority of the pieces played. In the first few years some of the professors did play as well, when needed. But I think thatās a real rarity now. Instead, if thereās a need, some of the alumni return and fill in. Because it is a small conservatory one is guaranteed to play in every performance - although the percussionists do switch off from piece to piece. However, now that there are older Artist Diploma seekers in the orchestra, it can be more competitive to get a position as first horn, for instance. That would be something to discuss with the school when applying, or deciding. Frank Corliss is the admissions director for the conservatory and will be happy to answer any questions, Iām sure.</p>
<p>@miguelsousa The piano collaborative program works extensively with Dawn Upshawās Vocal Arts Program. If one is especially interested in working with singers, this could be a terrific opportunity.</p>
<p>My son had a great experience at Bard. He wasnāt determined to pursue a double degree at any of his other choices - but Iām so glad, and heās so glad, that he did, as the academic side of his education was equally inspiring and important - and ended up informing everything he did in music. Heās now chosen a grad school where he will have the chance to continue taking academic classes in addition to music, as heās not ready to give up the stimulation and joy from exploring new territories and learning new things from inspiring professors.</p>
<p>@ClarinetKid - in answer to your question on the Introductions thread about the academics at Bard - especially how they would be for a top student since itās not as difficult to be admitted there as to an Ivy - I would say that the professors at the college are the equal of, or even in some cases, surpass those of any professors at any other institution - particularly in certain fields. My sonās second degree was in Classics. He did not choose Bard knowing much about the department and it turned out to be extraordinary. Some phenomenal professors - many of whom are internationally renowned and all of whom are terrific teachers. The literature department at Bard is equal to none, in my opinion (and I have a lot of experience in the literary world.) The Levy Economics Institute at Bard is a leader in the field. Theater, photography, music, dance - all great. Fantastic history professors. Great language departments. I know less about the science programs, but I do know that the feedback from students, in all subject areas, is always uniformly and overwhelmingly positive when they talk about their professors. In the five years my son was there, he only had a handful of classes that he felt were less than challenging. Iām sure that could be the case anywhere.</p>
<p>As for the caliber of oneās peers - well, itās true that many of the students were not the ones in high school taking every AP class, volunteering 40 hours a week, studying for years for the SATās, and making sure they never got less than an A. The majority of the students are in college for the love of learning itself. They are less concerned with the grades. They are less concerned with how their passions are perceived by others - and more concerned with following their passions. They like to read the books assigned in class, and more books on the side. Theyāre not there just to get a degree. (Of course, Iām sure there are exceptions - but this was true of every friend of my sonās - and he had lots and lots of friends!) My son found plenty of peers at his intellectual level, and all his friends had passions to share with him about which he knew nothing. He still has a high stack of recommended books from his friends that he hopes one day to get through! Yes, Bard tends to attract less conventional students, and there will be a more quirky student body overall, and less pre-professional than many of the more elite colleges. But that does not mean Bard does not produce lawyers, bankers, entrepreneurs, and doctorsā¦.</p>