<p>I know somebody that was accepted into Stanford EA. She is a great student (She has all As except for 1 B+ in the last 3 years). She is a very good athlete, she is very well rounded. She is not a nerd (Not that there is anything wrong with being one). </p>
<p>She went to one of the Stanford weekends for admitted students and came away with doubts.</p>
<p>She heard a Stanford student who is a Rhode Scholar talk. She talked to some of the students. She came away feeling the students at Stanford are very driven and almost Pre-Professional. There are many nerds. She is more laid back and looking for a more relaxing experience and a well rounded one. The social aspects are important to her.</p>
<p>She is thinking of going to Berkeley instead because she thinks there will be more of everything at the school; therefore, she is more likely to meet like minded students.</p>
<p>UCSB has always appealed to her. She's a runner and loves the outdoors. When she visited the school, she liked the students. The school doesn't have the reputation, however.</p>
<p>She is in at Michigan and likes school spirit. It would be out-of- state tuition.</p>
<p>Costs are not a big factor, but most people do like to save money. Her parents would be very happy if she goes to Stanford.</p>
<p>One of her best friends, has received a UCLA Regents notification, will, I am sure, receive a Berkeley regents notification. She also wasn't sold on Stanford after the admit weekend.</p>
<p>I guess Stanford did a poor job on admit Saturday.</p>
<p>I think she should go spend an overnight at Stanford.</p>
<p>She should spend time at Berkeley if she wants to see driven. Berkeley may be a lot bigger, but Stanford kids were not just chosen for their numbers. Berkeley is heavily Asian and that produces a very pre-professional culture. </p>
<p>UCSB would certainly be the laid back choice but would obviously not have anywhere near the resources and opportunities at Stanford. If she's not very ambitious, this may be okay with her.</p>
<p>I know everyone likes to save money, but on college?</p>
<p>She should know the downsides of Berkeley. Don't flame me for this, I've heard this from parents of Berkeley students: it takes longer to graduate because of resource constraints at Berkeley right now. Berkeley is a wonderful university, great and brilliant faculty, but at the moment it is not very undergraduate friendly. It is great for grad school.</p>
<p>As far as Stanford not being laid-back, I've heard the opposite. She should consider Stanford seriously.</p>
<p>I just asked someone in the office who went to Stanford grad and Michigan undergrad how Michigan does in this lineup. He says Michigan is no Stanford, nothing like the opportunities there. He says that there are a lot of very average students because it's easy to get into in State and not that hard out. Says it made a huge difference. So it sound like probably at the same level as UCSB.</p>
<p>Strongly second the suggestion that she visit Berkeley. </p>
<p>I went to BOTH Stanford and UCB (grad school both time, admittedly, but still...). Very different atmospheres at these two places. Berkeley does actually have a lovely campus (the core of it, anyway) but campus is not as much a center of life as it is in, say, LAC's or at Stanford. She needs to see how she likes it. And I, like Zagat, am wondering why she thinks Berkeley students will be more "laid back."</p>
<p>Don't get me wrong, both great places. I wanted S to apply to both. He wouldn't apply to Berkeley, just didn't want large, large, large. Anyway, we are no longer Ca. residents, so Berkeley not much of a possibility.</p>
<p>Also excellent point has been made about the undergrad experience at Berkeley (vs. Stanford) - need to doublecheck me on this, it's been too many years since my time, but much higher proportion of TA-type classes etc.</p>
<p>Good friend's S just went to a Yale admit session (regional, not on campus) and came away with same type of reaction (also maybe in this case a little awestruck and intimidated by his potential peers/competition). </p>
<p>I'm wondering if these sessions are not adequately representative of whole student body, or perhaps at this moment, our S/Ds are looking at their potential peers in a more worried way at these sessions.</p>
<p>Dstark --
I think she should spend an overnight and attend classes at all the schools on her list.
She has time to consider this, but I think someone who is attracted to Berkeley could find herself bored at Stanford. (Waits for hail of stones to fall on head.) I've spent time on both campuses, and they are very, very different. The quality of the faculty is comparable. The quality of the students ranges much wider at Berkeley than Stanford, but the high end of the student body is as fine as you will get anywhere and there is a certain type of quirky intellingence -- maybe someone who just did not jump through all the right hoops to get into a private university, say someone who read books rather than took years of tennis lessons -- that you will find at Berkeley and not Stanford. (Now, waits for lightning bolts.) On the other hand, she has to feel she is the kind of person who will seek out opportunities at Berkeley, because they will not come to her there, while Stanford has a tremendous pot of money to lavish on undergrads.
UCSB has some fine departments -- physics, for example, is topnotch. But, she should consider whether the social life there suits her and see what a classroom discussion might be like, given that she would be at the top of their pool. They do have a special program there for students who know what they want to do, that gives unusual access to faculty. Their regents is extremeley generous, but you said her parents don't consider money an issue.</p>
<p>We went to the Stanford admit event last year, as son got in EA, and I understand her reaction. In fact, there was a Stanford professor who attended because his daughter was an admit, and he was furious with the program because it included nothing about the humanities. It was very focused on convincing parents that Stanford was worth the money because their kids would get into the top law and medical schools and be involved in the cutting edge of biological or engineering research. My son was also turned off by the pre-professional feel -- though he knows many students at Stanford who all love it, and it was a close call for him. (We would have loved for him to have chosen Berkeley.)</p>
<p>Gotta go on gut feel, I think, visits help, but in the end you follow your intuition and hope you're right. Between S and B, how wrong can you be?</p>
<p>My son goes to UCSD. This is what he always wanted, it's great for his major, so we didn't look further than SD and other UCs. Last year he accompanied us on a tour of private colleges my daughter was applying to. He was open jawed at the differences. I think what other posters said is on target. Having to uncover your own opportunities at every turn. Lack of resources. No undergrad focus. Waiting lists for important classes. </p>
<p>Your friend should really understand these differences. She will find like minded people at any of these schools. But she won't find small classes, professors who are not too busy with research to engage with undergrads, alumni who actively help students, etc.</p>
<p>As Achat says, the price diferential may not be so big. A lot of kids are now taking 6 years at UCSD. So the price difference would be $40K, easily made up by working those 2 years.</p>
<p>dstark, achat is correct on all points. And as I think someone else pointed out, admits going to a special (non-mandatory, during-term) session are not representative of the whole freshman class, & may be the especially high-wired, driven types. So unless your D believes that either of the UCs has a better dep't in a special academic program of choice, and/or other better opportunities, I personally would recommend Stanford.</p>
<p>And what an ideal place for an outdoors-lover. Foothills Park, the campus itself, beautiful areas for runners, etc. Hardly gets better unless one is going to Northern/Northern CA. (Humboldt State, Sonoma State)</p>
<p>Couple more points - I found very laid back folks at both Stanford and Berkeley. In fact, my culture shock after Wellesley was how laid back all of Ca. seemed. </p>
<p>dstark - re AP credits making it easy to get out in 4 yrs, you and others probably already know, but does UCB allow you to shorten your total # credits based on AP? So many of the HYPS don't (ie you can place out of entry level courses, but not shorten your time there ).</p>
<p>I know UCLA does. I am assuming Berkeley does. I have a friend who has a daughter at UCLA. She has 30 extra credits as a freshman. She can graduate in three years if she wants. She doesn't.</p>
<p>One person's anecdotal experience is not much to build an opinion on. Michigan is a top 25 University. Its honors program (which the person in question would surely be in) has students whose SATs average over 1400. It's one of the world's great research institutions by all accounts--the idea that there is a lack of opportunities is ludicrous. It's also located in one of the best and most fun college towns in the country. I would't say someone should or shouldn't make that choice, but I don't think it's as clearcut as you portray it.</p>
<p>I always say kids should follow their heart and their gut, to some extent. If she has misgivings, then something is not clicking. However, the idea of an overnight is a really good one, and maybe NOT on admit weekend which will be more canned presentations. I have heard of kids hating a school the first time they saw it and loving it the second time they visited. </p>
<p>When I look back on the early admit reception that she went to, and that sac and I both attended last year, I can really understand how she felt if this year's was like last year's. It was kind of blah, and the kids who spoke were high achievers but not a lot of fun--driven and preprofessional are good descriptions. But remember that they choose 2 speakers, and they're going to go for the "cream of the crop" in their (the admin's) estimation, and trying to appeal to a mixed group of students and parents. You don't get a representative sample of kids that way.</p>
<p>Patient, the reception this year sounds like last years. There was a lot of standing around, doing nothing. Then there were a couple of speeches stating why Stanford is best. Then it was pretty much over. It was a let down.
Your son really likes Stanford if I remember right.
I think if this student would stay overnight on a Friday, she would feel better about the school.
She has a friend who loves the school. </p>