Cornell Cuts Suicide Rate in Half--Is it Worth the Price?

Parents Forum
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<p>Cornell, which sometimes unfairly has been accused of having a high student sucide rate owing to its rivers, lakes and, especially, its gorges, has instituted an awareness and pooling of information program that has cut its previously average student sucide rate in half. It involves not only counselling efforts but observations by all individuals across campus. In addition, if there are concerns that arise about a student's propensity for self-harm, parents are advised. </p>

<p>The program, instituted well ahead of the Virgina Tech shootings and similar actions by young people, has proved successful.</p>

<p>This short article reviews the process and its results:</p>

<p>Cornell</a> Cuts Suicide Rate in Half - World of Psychology</p>

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<p>I didn't see actual statistics so couldn't tell what was cut in half. I don't think they kill themselves "owing to its rivers, lakes and gorges" though.</p>

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<p>I found this article particularly interesting, and just forwarded it to my brother who works in the field of mental health as a community-based advocate. Thank you. </p>

<p>I wondered if it could cause overrreaction by some parents, requiring their kids to come home when a campus-based response might be superior. We'd all rather know than not know. The idea of training campus personnel, right to the level of custodians, is impressive. </p>

<p>Around 20 years ago I recall a modest national mental health grant to train working professionals who normally hear adults' problems, specifically: bartenders, hairdressers and cab drivers.</p>

<p>People in the trenches are able to see a great deal, but usually aren't allowed to report up the chain of command. Coupled with their own family experience, the campus employees could be very helpful. I compare it to my role as a mandated reporter of child abuse when a public school teacher. It wasn't my responsibility to evaluate the situation, merely to report it to my superior.</p>

<p>A custodian, finding a wastebasket of vomit daily in a girl's room, is in the best possible position to send up a red flag that she's in trouble.</p>

<p>I think student privacy is important to maintain, especially so that kids may pursue sexual protection, drug rehab, whateverf they may need without bothering parents who can be downright WEIRD about it.</p>

<p>But, mental health red flags sometimes take a village to help. I don't think this is over-helping. My brother has lost too many friends to suicide along the way
because mental health is so misunderstood in society. You don't always know when you need help, and unusual behavior is the symptom just like a high fever tells you to take the next step to "check it out."</p>

<p>We are absolutely in the dark ages, still, about mental health. Although I'm a bit on the fence about whether this will cause overreactions in some homes, it could save lives in so many others, so on balance, to me it sounds commendable.</p>

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<p>Muffy, I thought Cornell's geologic problem is they can't determine if something might have been a suicide, or an alcohol-filled person falling off a precipice.</p>

<p>Geology aside, Cornell faces the same issues of all campuses re: student mental health.
They just have this added issue.</p>

<p>I'm also curious how Ithaca College deals with the same problems, given they're in the same town.</p>

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<p>I'm a fan of people like custodians being trained to notice when a student is in crisis. There was a nightwatchman at MIT who was known to have kept his eye on students and watched out for them, who was credited with saving student lives by preventing suicides. He was beloved by the community, and after he died the students in the dorms at which he worked raised the money to endow a scholarship in his name.</p>

<p>House staff are also good folks to provide support. Graduate tutors or residential assistants, housemasters...this is part of why they're there.</p>

<p>I am quite wary of the idea of telling parents. For many, if not most, of the students I knew in crisis at various times, their parents were a major factor. I can think of plenty of instances where telling the parents would have exacerbated the situation horribly. It might also discourage students from seeking help, if they are afraid that those who are supposed to give them help will tell their parents.</p>

<p>I do, certainly, think that counselors and therapists for students should discuss the student's family dynamics, and, if appropriate, help the student figure out how to discuss the issue with the parents themselves, and provide emotional support for the student when he/she <em>does</em> tell the parents.</p>

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<p>Even though Cornell's a good-sized university, I can't believe that they have enough suicides per year to calculate big changes in the rate. Aren't we talking about numbers in the low single digits?</p>

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<p>^^Nah, we're talking about people (slap on my wrist, that was a cheap shot..)</p>

<p>I'm not a statistician, I'm a mush-heart, but respect what a statistician can bring to this discussion. </p>

<p>Even if the digits are small, could Cornell's research discovery benefit another campus?</p>

<p>The Op opened with the question, "Is it Worth it?" I think there's probably immeasureables where students are helped long before an actual suicide occurs, simply because the program is in place for worst-case possibilities. Maybe these are recorded anecdotally?</p>

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<p>Jessiehl said- "I am quite wary of the idea of telling parents. For many, if not most, of the students I knew in crisis at various times, their parents were a major factor. I can think of plenty of instances where telling the parents would have exacerbated the situation horribly. It might also discourage students from seeking help, if they are afraid that those who are supposed to give them help will tell their parents."</p>

<p>Well you may be partially correct but remember there are numerous reasons why students consider suicide. In one case I know of two students were buying marijuana from an adult that worked in the school's dining facility. It seems that both students within a two week period attempted suicide. The diagnoisis- drug induced mania....Bad POT!!! In both of these cases the parents were innocent in contributing to the suicidal behavior.</p>

<p>The privacy issue may make sense for children of divorce or a student that is at risk from domestic violence etc.. it unfortnately hurts the family that is cohesive and does not resemble in any way the type of dysfunctional behavior that would warrant such strict privacy rules.</p>

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<p>As a Cornell alum and Cornell parent, I think that what the university is doing is a good idea.</p>

<p>Cornell's atmosphere is the very antithesis of warm and fuzzy. It's a big school. And except in Cornell's smallest undergraduate colleges (the Hotel school and the school of Industrial and Labor Relations), which do have a more cohesive atmosphere, the university often seems impersonal. As one student recently put it on the Cornell boards, the banners you see on the dorms during Orientation Week saying "Welcome to the Cornell Family" are the only indication a student will ever see that suggests that a "Cornell family" exists. It is easy to get lost in the crowd at Cornell, and this is made worse by the fact that the majority of students do not live in the dorms after freshman year. Of course, help is available in a wide variety of settings for many different types of problems, but in general, at Cornell, the student must seek out help; help doesn't seek out the student who needs it.</p>

<p>At a campus like Cornell's, an individual student's problems, which might be noticed routinely and informally on a smaller and more close-knit campus, can easily be overlooked unless special efforts are made to detect such situations. </p>

<p>As paying3tuitions points out, it sometimes takes a village to help with mental illness. I think that Cornell is trying to turn itself into more of a village. And I think this is a good thing, as long as it doesn't become too intrusive.</p>

<p>Edited to add: Yes, a lot of the gorge-related deaths have to do with alcohol rather than suicide. But it's always been that way.</p>

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<p>Marian- I should have elaborated that the true story I cited did not take place at Cornell.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Well you may be partially correct but remember there are numerous reasons why students consider suicide.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Of course. My point was simply that one can't <em>assume</em> that talking to the parents will help. Like I said, I very much encourage students in most cases talking to their parents eventually - if the parents <em>are</em> a contributing factor in the problem, the family dynamic is unlikely to get better unless the student talks to the parents - and I think support staff should be helping the student who expresses an interest in doing such, and talking about the possibility with students who are too overwhelmed to consider doing it on their own. But it should ultimately be the student's decision. The university taking it upon themselves to do this is not only risking aggravating the issue, but it is also meddling in family dynamics.</p>

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<p>jessiehl--in the case of serious mental illness, which often begins to appear at age 18, the family MUST be contacted. There are all kinds of insurance and financial ramifications. Also, treating chronic mental illness requires the support of the entire family, especially in a society which is indeed in the dark ages when it comes to mental illness. There is also the issue that many victims of serious mental illness lack insight into their conditions--they won't ask for the help that they need.
Research has led to an improved understanding of brain development in the 18 to 22 age range. It's clear that probably the legal age of adulthood should be put back to 21 anyways. Students in this age range need the wisdom of adults they trust. As long as a family is not abusive, I can't see any downside to involving them. I grew up in a very dysfunctional family, but I still needed their love and help when I was a young adult.
I have always been very liberal politically, but due to recent experiences I can see that laws and institutions do work to weaken family ties. This is especially troubling since social services have been cut to the point where a strong family is necessary for survival.
I lost a beloved young family member to suicide this past summer. Privacy laws helped to kill her.</p>

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<p>jessiehl:</p>

<p>Big Jimmy? <a href="http://www.mit.edu/%7Erei/big-jimmy.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.mit.edu/~rei/big-jimmy.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>He sounds like he was an amazing person.</p>

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<p>If you read the longer article Cornell changed from having 11 suicides in 6 years to having 5 in six years. I'm no statistician, but it does seem promising to me. I do think mental illness is one place where mandated reporting is the only way to save lives. As far as reporting to parents - given that they are generally paying the health insurance - I think they do have a right to be involved.</p>