Cornell deaths

[faustarp]

<p>^That survey doesn’t differentiate between perception and reality, and that’s exactly what causes trouble for Cornell: people might feel like it’s competitive (in a bad way) because they’ve heard comments from others, they read about its reputation, and people joke about it on campus. If they actually reflect on their experiences, they will probably realize that most of their classmates are ambitious and talented, but not hostile. I am a biology major at Cornell, so whatever the pre-med zeitgeist is these days, I’m in the thick of it. Most of the people I know really want to do well, but they don’t sabotage anyone else’s learning, and most are glad to help someone else who’s confused. Perhaps there are a few individuals who have poor attitudes, but there are so many others who make great classmates.</p>

<p>Also, the idea that any appreciable percentage of Cornell students are disappointed about being here is pretty silly. I think that was basically established on the last page but I just wanted to reinforce that. I applied ED, and I didn’t even know some of the best things about the school before I made that decision.</p>

[monydad]

<p>I do not know anything about JHU really, but my off-the-cuff reaction is maybe that 40% happens to be approximately the same proportion of students there who are pre-med. This so-called atmosphere may be correlated with major as well as college, and different schools may have proportionally more types of certain majors than others. Just something else to consider.</p>

[jonri]

<p>From an old thread, post by JHU rep in 2006:</p>

<p>

Yes, we do have an amazing Medical School and the best Hospital - but the Undergraduate Schools are on separate campuses and run differently. Because of that we have a larger %age of pre-med students than some other schools, but it is still less than 1/3 of our population.

</p>

<p>I agree with you that pre-meds and some majors are more competitive than others. The fact that there are more of these students does affect the over all campus “vibe” IMO.</p>

[woody]

<p>Thanks for you input, faustarp.</p>

[Benona]

<p>I want to get into this program called Master in International Development Policy at Duke University and I want some comments and suggestions about the program .</p>

[RacinReaver]

<p>

But not just Cornell. I think that any large university may be a difficult environment for such a student. Large universities that are academically rigorous (such as Cornell) and those where many students live off-campus (such as Cornell) may be particularly challenging.</p>

<p>It’s easy to get lost in the crowd at a large university. Changes in behavior may not be noticed. Help will not seek out the student; the student has to seek help. Academic rigor may add to the pressure that students experience, and those who live off campus lack the support of residence hall staff (RAs and Residence Hall Directors). This may not be a good situation for a student who is at risk for recurrence of depression. Such a student may be better off at a smaller college, where signs of trouble such as absence from class or failure to turn in assignments would be noticed, or close to home, where family members might have frequent opportunities to observe the student’s behavior.

</p>

<p>I’m not sure how much I agree with this. We’ve experienced a number of unfortunate deaths here at Caltech in the last year, even though it’s a very small school with a pretty tight-knit community. I know one was an important member of his house, taking several responsibilities and known for being outgoing and helpful. Another was undergoing counseling since they had known issues, though every had believed they were recovering.</p>

[anothermom2]

<p>I’ve been reading along since my previous post here, and I do want to make a couple of points. While there are many many really happy students at Cornell, as evidenced by posters above who are parents, and by students we know, Cornell can be too much for some people who enroll. Ok, so I am not that profound. However, I can say from my own personal experience of a relationship with that institution of almost 4 decades, that what I see is the largest institutional failure is its impersonal nature. I have a kind of love/hate relationship with the place. I never found the collegial feeling that I had been looking for in academia there.</p>

<p>I am always deeply concerned about the suicides. I knew a boy who was found dead in the gorge during my time there, and this is something that I will never forget. His parents put an open letter in the daily sun, and of course they blamed the university for not seeing that he was floundering academically. His close friends had no idea that he was as unhappy or ill as he obviously was. A couple of those friends had known him from home, so they were not just recent acquaintances. It breaks my heart still remembering this.</p>

<p>What I want to point out are things like this: I had great profs in lectures of 400+ students. They flat out were not interested/able to get to know everyone who wanted to be one of their followers/close associates/mentees or what ever you want to call it. They don’t know you like they might at say a Grinnell or other smaller LAC. They are not going to come looking for you. Arts and Sciences, contrary to the viewbook, is not a small LAC at a great research institution. Too many people can enroll in the courses for it to have that intimate feel in the more popular majors. Sometimes you need someone to come looking for you. The faculty advising is not uniformly effective. I had 2 majors and two advisors, and one who was such a nice person couldn’t really be that close to advisees, because there were too many of them. I had semesters where I was closed out of all my classes (as a junior) and I had to go begging to get into classes, in winter, in feet of snow, crying, alot. One professor, and bless his soul, I will never forget it, took pity, but what could he do. He gave me academic advice and let me in the class. He even had a little personal advice, but for me, the type of person that I am, it was not enough support. I had a professor who wanted to fail me in wine tasting because I did not submit the drop form quickly enough for him. I again went crying to someone, in this case an assistant Dean in Arts and Sciences, and she groveled to him for me so that I could drop the course. Otherwise I would have had an F for a class I did not attend. My friend actually got an F in a course that a prof would not let her drop and her diploma envelope was empty at graduation (no one told her.) These are just the highlights. </p>

<p>What the recent Daily Sun article said about being shocked at going from a top student to average or even below is true. I was an NMF, top scores, A+ student from a decent HS in suburban Long Island. I won an award for english, and my papers were never at the A level for Cornell. The preparation did not compare to those who went to great prep schools or great public schools. That top SAT is not always so meaningful in terms of success. In truth, I did not learn how to write well until I went to law school. In grad school, I was, once again, like in HS, a star. My previous training served me well there, and the small program allowed me to get (finally) the attention and collegial feeling that I had been looking for during undergrad. I went on to a pressure cooker top NYC law firm, and it was always my feeling that Cornell was the place that prepared me for that pressure, and by that time I felt well prepared. </p>

<p>If it needs a lot of nurturing, your flower may not bloom at Cornell. I should have gone to a small LAC, but that train left a long time ago. I actively encourage Cornell for the right person. I would never think it was a fit for a depressed person with eating disorders.</p>

[momma-three]

<p>Momofwildchild…there is clear cut evidence that deficits of vitamin D cause a biological depression. Most people are never tested and those who are most certainly display symptoms. It is the symptoms that direct a good doctor to test for this rather than referring to a psychiatrist for anti depressants. You are very lucky if you did not exhibit any signs…please note I did say that my son had an extreme deficiency. It can’t hurt to have the kids checked out when they are home. This winter has been especially gloomy and when you consider that all body parts are covered and they are probably walking with their heads tilted downward to shield them from the wind it is a good possibility. I thought it was something to share that maybe could help someone else.</p>

[Marian]

<p>

If it needs a lot of nurturing, your flower may not bloom at Cornell.

</p>

<p>Or at most other large universities – unless you happen to be in a very small program within that university.</p>

<p>At Cornell, the three smallest schools – Architecture, Art and Planning; Hotel Administration; and Industrial and Labor Relations – are noticeably less impersonal than the others. I suspect the same kind of thing is true at other universities as well.</p>

[MomofWildChild]

<p>I think the research on Vit D is very conflicted and there are as many studies questioning the impact of a deficiency as there are claiming there is one. This applies to cancer, bone loss AND depression. As I said, everyone is getting this diagnosis and in every case the deficiency is pretty great. I am not saying it isn’t a good idea to up the amount of Vit D and I have done so, but I don’t buy the tie-in to depression and all the other ailments that increasing Vit D is supposed to fix. It’s just the flavor of the day. But-if it helped your son, then that’s terrific!</p>

[poetgrl]

<p>Anyone who experiences seasonal depression should look into vitamin D deficiency. Between omega threes and D vitamins, it can make a stunning difference. Anyone who is running marathons or training for a marathon is releasing such large numbers of endorphins that this must counteract anything like seasonal depression. Between excercise, vit D and omega threes anyone who is not clinically depressed but seasonally so, should experience signifcant improvement.</p>

<p>I have seen this repeatedly in my practice with adolecents and young adults. It is always where I go first, before I send them to be evaluated for meds. You’d be suprised by how few clients I ever end up having to send for an evaluation. Just my professional experience.</p>

<p>Again, my sympathy to the Cornell students, faculty and parents. Such a sad turn of events for you all.</p>

<p>“Everyone is getting this diagnose and in every case the deficiency is very great.” Yes! And it isn’t it interesting that as children play outside in the sun less and less the incidence of childhood depression and anxiety is rising and rising. Better to get them on vitamin D than prozac.</p>

[Modadunn]

<p>NYTimes article… </p>

<p>[After</a> 3 Suspected Suicides, a Shaken Cornell Reaches Out - NYTimes.com](<a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/17/education/17cornell.html?ref=education]After”>http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/17/education/17cornell.html?ref=education)</p>

<p>

Around campus, students and staff wondered whether some combination of familiar stresses — the long upstate New York winter, classroom demands of an Ivy League university — and new factors, like the evaporation of internships and jobs for graduates during a bleak recession, had provoked the recent deaths.</p>

<p>Dr. Marchell cautioned that it is almost impossible to link broad causes to suicide rates, that “the psychology of suicide can be very individual.”

</p>

<p>Pointing to statistics,

Despite the half-dozen known or suspected suicides this year, Timothy Marchell, a clinical psychologist in Cornell’s campus health services whose specialties include suicide, said that, historically, Cornell suicides have not been higher than what national statistics predict for a university population of 20,000 students: about two per year.

</p>

[oldfort]

<p>

the evaporation of internships and jobs for graduates

</p>

<p>I recruited from Cornell last year and this year. I got a lot more resumes last year than this year. I was told by the recruiting office that many engineer majors were getting good offers. An intern I hired last year, who couldn’t get a job back at GS where she interned a year before, just emailed me that GS has offered her a permanent position. Two applicants that I have made offers to all have told me that they have multiple offers and would like 2 weeks to decide. I am also hearing similar things from D1 about her friends. Most of them do have something lined up or in the process of doing so. I think this year’s job market is much better for students at Cornell than last year.</p>

[momma-three]

<p>Oldfort…You probably had my kids resume.</p>

[kmccrindle]

<p>I just want to second/corroborate Poetgrl’s observations about Vitamin D and Omega 3. I did historically suffer SAD, and do not consider Vitamin D “the flavor of the day.” I believe we as a society are simply expanding our comprehension of the science of nutrition as it relates to metabolic production of neurotransmitters, and that while there are too many variables to control for some types of clinical evaluation, we will slowly piece together the function and relationship between our metabolic processes and our mood/anxiety/depression/other central nervous system dysfunction. Empirically, a combo of vitamin D, multi B, flax oil, magnesium and high protein drink work very reliably and observably for me in beating the dysthemmia of SAD – and has been working for a few years now.
SO THEN I find out recently my son has ADD-inattentive type, which I read has neurochemical/dopamine production connections. Aha, two related individuals who seem to have difficulty managing their dopamine levels. Hmmm. So over his spring break, I decide to give him the exact same nutritional regime that has helped me with SAD. Guess what – totally improved his mood and motivation for organization (still waiting to see if it also improves his CAPACITY for organization Scientific or not, I like what I am seeing and it is certainly a low-risk and empowering option for people inclined to any sort of depressive or other cns condition. Which is not to say it alone would be an effective lone treatment for all, but certainly a good support condition.</p>

<p>I know it’s not what Grace Slick meant when she sang “Feed your head” but getting college kids to take the time to start their days with optimal nutrition and a little weight resistance or running (also increases endorphins) might be an awesome public service campaign for universities to undertake. It might actually be the most effective “early” suicide prevention strategy out there.</p>

[momofthreeboys]

<p>I think I remember three decades ago or so my girlfriend had a young brother who was “hyper.” Not even sure if they diagnosed ADD back then, but the prescription at that time for “hyper” kids was a certain diet and vitamin combination. I remember being intrigued by that when I was visiting.</p>

[toneranger]

<p>oldfort…that’s promising news about the job market. But I do believe it’s still stressful for most kids out there. My s and many of his senior friends have NOT been able to land jobs. Interviewing is light. It doesn’t help that it was so hard to get internships last year…it just piles onto the problems of this year. These are kids with high GPAs, lots of activities and leadership. It seems things haven’t improved much just yet…</p>

<p>Anyway, the news from Cornell is so very sad. I have been on that campus many times and I’m struck by how beautiful it is. I think most kids think they are very lucky to be there. Unfortunately some lose perspective…so very sad.</p>

[oldfort]

<p>People do not commit suicide because of failing grades or inability to get a job.</p>

[MomofWildChild]

<p>When I was a college freshman, one of my dearest high school friends (a guy) who was loved by all set himself on fire on the football field at Arizona State. He died, of course. All of our parents had to call us at our respective colleges (before the days of internet) and tell us. I suffer this loss to this day. I also still have NO idea what was wrong and why he would do such a thing. I have my own theory, but I will never know for sure. I have googled him and the incident and there is not much out there. Every report of a young person taking their own life brings it all back.</p>

[toneranger]

<p>oldfort…I’m certainly not an expert here…but I do want to say that I feel there are many reasons behind suicides. Sometimes an external stressor (like losing a job or not being able to get one) can contribute to the feeling of despair. I think we all know several people who have been affected. In some cases, there is seemingly nothing wrong. In other cases, there ARE things wrong that push people over the edge. Like many, I have personal experience with this…and that’s all I have to base my thoughts on. </p>

<p>IMO, teens who are going through tough times ARE vulnerable. Two girls recently committed suicide in our community because one of them lost a boyfriend in car crash recently. No matter what the circumstances, it’s easy to feel hopeless about the future when you’re depressed. And life can present some pretty tough challenges…</p>