<p>(I had technical difficulty pasting, so if the link didn't work just search George Desdunes at Cornell SAE and there are a lot of articles.)</p>
<p>I first want to express my sadness, and condolences to his friends and family. </p>
<p>Every time I read about a death due to alcohol poisoning, I know that alcohol education is not working enough. I really don't "get it". I have seen presentations where people who lost a child spoke, where someone became a paraplegic due to drunk driving, etc., etc., and it seems to change no one's mind on the subject. Those who want to drink could go out a day later and over do it. I know that teens especially think that they are invincible etc., but when truth comes calling, why are they still tuned out?</p>
<p>A 17-year old Ithaca College student was found dead in the snow within 24 hours of this death, and alcohol is likely a factor in that case as well.</p>
<p>Throughout history, there have been wars, catastrophes, and epidemics, and all of us who are here today are the descendants of those who were the survivors. I have a sense that we all feel invincible when we’re young because we all inherited the gene pools of those who actually were invincible.</p>
<p>I generally would not bump my own thread, but I was fairly surprised that there was so little discussion on this. People were so eager to praise fake ID’s and underage drinking on another thread, that I at least thought that there would be some discussion.</p>
<p>I have to say that I did not research the IFC rules, but I don’t see how this could be consistent with the University rules on drinking at fraternities. It was previously my understanding that at the large parties there were caterers who were supposed to check ids (now I know they are often fake, so it is useless I guess.) In the moldy oldy days, at least during rush there a ban on alcohol; like I said education is not working.</p>
<p>I also think that it is wrong not to allow a safe harbor from personal sanctions if 911 is called in such a circumstance. Where it gets difficult is that there probably will be liability to the fraternity for serving alcohol to an underage pledge or pledges.</p>
<p>As to the young lady from Ithaca College who died from alcohol, another senseless tragedy. I read about her in the Ithacan. Just so sad. My condolences to her family as well.</p>
<p>Just so you all are clear, I basically like the fraternity system, and I would not say that it is fraternities that are per se wrong here. I spent some time in that very same SAE house in the dinosaur era. There are many many positives about fraternities and sororities. Unfortunately, underage drinking is not one of them - imo.</p>
<p>If no one has anything else to say, I will sign off on this.</p>
<p>anothermom2, I personally just feel despair that students drink themselves to death in this way.</p>
<p>I started to write, “feel the need to drink,” but I am not convinced that they even feel any need. Somehow they just do it.</p>
<p>A close friend of my daughter’s killed himself by driving while drunk, so I have experienced much sorrow on this subject. It seems a very difficult problem to solve.</p>
<p>In another decade most of the college drinking was completely legal for anyone over 18. Then we had MADD and the age was raised to 21. It is 18 in many other countries in the world. So today’s college kids tend to ignore a law that is considered unnecessary in most of the world. Can’t say I have a problem with that. College age kids die doing too much of something all the time–that’s what young adults do. Better to do it in a calmer professional environment like a bar/club that is responsible for over-serving etc.</p>
<p>While underage drinking obviously occurs in Fraternity houses, we would be naive to believe that underage drinking would stop if Fraternities were banned. While it’s unfortunate that something like this has to happen, it will keep happening over and over again and the amount of alcohol education we show these young people will not prevent it.</p>
<p>What I believe is a major problem is that some kids are afraid to help out others that have had too much to drink for fear of their own well-being. If no one would get in trouble for bringing someone to a hospital that drank too much, then people would be more willing to do so when their friends are sick.</p>
<p>Fendrock, I am sorry about your D’s friend. One of my own close friends died in a car accident that likely had alcohol involved. I don’t have the answers either.</p>
<p>UofAmom, I would not want to see fraternities banned. I hope what I said did not come across that way. I don’t think that would do much. What I do think is that because the fraternity members are often leaders on campus in other respects, the universities should work more with the officers who are in charge to try to really get the point across in a more effective way.</p>
<p>And Barrons, I guess I don’t “get” why it is so necessary to drink when one is underage, or why binge drinking is acceptable as part of any social scene. I mean it. It does not compute with me.</p>
<p>My D nearly got in big trouble this weekend for helping a friend home that had clearly had too much to drink. D is on 3 meds and didn’t drink. The adult in charge didn’t ask and didn’t seem to care, just yelled at her (not her friend) for half an hour. D says that the adult being a complete jerk wouldn’t stop her from taking care of her friend in the future. I wonder if she really would be as inclined to do it again.</p>
<p>I definitely agree that coordinating better with officers and those in charge of Fraternities could definitely help with the binge drinking aspect.</p>
<p>The young man, according to the article and comments, apparently was not affiliated with the frat house, which seems very odd.</p>
<p>To follow midwstmom, I would also guess that kids don’t think too much about prescription drug/OTC/alcohol interactions. So many take meds for ADD or depression or anxiety, then have a drink, then take some Midol, and then take an Advil with a shot. They don’t think about how many products they are mixing.</p>
<p>Anothermom2–I assume you were once 18 and did some things you might not be so willing to admit now. If not you are the exception by far. And as I alluded to-- I think the current situation has fostered the binge drinking of today. When you can drink all night legally there is no reason to pound drinks just in case you might not get anymore. Also most states make bartenders not overserve the obviously drunk under the threat of getting closed down.</p>
<p>I have no idea what I could add to this thread, since I also don’t see the solution at hand. It is very very tragic. </p>
<p>I think kids are drinking and doing stupid stuff in college as they were in our generation. I also don’t think it has anything to do with the greek system- it has to do with parties, period. </p>
<p>I don’t have some deep analysis here, but it seems obvious that college age kids find that socializing is simply easier and/or more fun when drunk. And drinking makes you lose your better judgment. Drunk kids do not realize that ‘more alcohol’ is not going to result in ‘more fun/relaxation/fill-in-the-blank’. And drunk kids don’t remember the associated low probability but dire consequences (e.g. ER visits, death), nor the high probability but less serious consequences (e.g. hangover). </p>
<p>I don’t believe the drinking age makes a difference. Here in Canada, the age is 19 (18 in Quebec, where party-school McGill is located) and there is no less binge drinking and stupid stuff around alcohol going on.</p>
<p>It’s developmental. The prefrontal cortex (reasoning) is not fully developed until a later age–some scientists say mid-20’s. These 18-22 year olds are legally adults, yet often have impaired ability to make the sorts of decisions that could save their lives and lives of others.</p>
<p>We on the parents thread, however, have our prefrontal cortex in fine form (perhaps overactive?) and must sadly shake our heads at the perils of youth.</p>
<p>Sorry but I just don’t buy the glib “well, if the drinking age were lowered, college kids would drink more responsibly”, and the ever-popular “in Europe the kids drink more responsibly because the drinking age is lower”. This argument gets trotted out every time the subject comes up and IME is just not valid.</p>
<p>It just may be that so many parents are so tolerant (and actually supportive) concerning underage drinking that school administrators have simply given up, and who can blame them?</p>
<p>When I was in college the drinking age was 18 and I saw plenty of dangerous drinking on my very large campus. I know kids ended up in the ER with alcohol poisoning and killed one another in drunk driving accidents and as a result, the age for legal drinking was raised. Unfortunately, many of my peers who came of age in the same era cling to the notion that because they did it and survived, it’s ok for their kids too.</p>
<p>Just for the record, I lived in the UK for several years in the early 90’s and saw large numbers of teenagers passed out drunk in the city common every weekend. The only saving grace there was that the legal driving age is 18 and it is fairly expensive and difficult to get a drivers license. I really don’t think that the European example is one to emulate.</p>
<p>The University found that Desdunes, who was a brother at SAE, was provided alcohol “while in the care of certain members and associate members” of SAE and became incapacitated, Murphy stated</p>
<p>Students are now drinking hard liquor as their choice of alcoholic drinks. They knock back 4 or 5 shots before they even begin to feel the effects of the first one. They have no idea how drunk they are nor that they will continue to get more drunk after their last shot. Their drunk friends put them to bed thinking they will sleep it off and they die. </p>
<p>I wish they drank beer. They throw up or get full before they become horribly horribly drunk.</p>
<p>I have preached forever to my kids (24/22). It has done no good. "We can handle it;we take care of our friends etc… Great kids, great parents and still not getting through.</p>
<p>oh and Villanova had a recent death but cause of death is still under investigation. Have not ruled out alcohol poisoning</p>
<p>We had a poster on CC, who often bragged of his binge drinking and claimed that he knew how to handle it. Unfortunately, in real life, he ended up dying of alcohol poisoning - and we all got to read the newspaper article about it. It was so sad… Even those kids who think they know how to manage their drinking can make fatal mistakes. :(</p>