<p>Calm down! My post was kind of aggressive. I realize this. NUGrad, you're the one who cited a small, petty (and, to your discredit, actually incorrect) difference in SAT scores when someone asked for advice in deciding which school to go to.
No, by my logic Stanford, MIT, Duke, Williams, etc. aren't "worse" than Cornell. I'm not an idiot. I'm not talking just Ivy League name recognition- I'm talking name recognition in general. In this respect both the Ivy Leagues AND all those schools you graciously took the time to list have the edge, and it's just a plain fact that professors pick schools based on prestige and name recognition.
Now, hold on- I never said Northwestern isn't a great school. It is, judging by the people I know who are students there now. If we get into the debate of which SHOULD be better, based on the quality of students who go there- now THAT might be a different story (though I by no means think that NU is better than Cornell. In fact, I think the quality of students who go to both is probably equal, but of course this is arbitrary and you clearly have a different opinion). But as to which school IS better- now that's a different story with a wider variety of factors. When you judge whether a school is better, you don't include the students. What matters is the professors. Name recognition garners better professors. Period.</p>
<p>So the fact that Michigan has higher ranked programs (and thus 'better' professors) than let's say Dartmouth, does that mean that Michigan has better academic?</p>
<p>Your logic is very fallible. And Cornell doesn't exactly pay its professors on average as much as Northwestern (You can look that up). I disagree with you that Cornell has better professors. The only thing you are relying on are obsolete graduate school departmental rankings from 1990 that redcrim cited. Let's go by data. Support your argument with objective and empirical data. Northwestern has a higher overall retention rate (97 percent), higher graduation rate, lower faculty-student ratio, higher SAT average, and a higher endowment (even though it has MUCH fewer students) than Cornell. Where does Cornell beat NU? Just in that it is a member of a sports league (w. Harvard). Who would lose more? If Cornell left the ivy league or if Harvard? Let's rephrase that? What about if Yale left or Cornell? Or Princeton or Cornell? I think what I am demonstrating is pretty clear.</p>
<p>Dude, calm down. You apparently missed the part of my post where I stated, "In fact, I think the quality of students who go to both is probably equal." I really honestly think that Cornell and Northwestern are both great, and arguing about which one is slightly greater and which is slightly worse is stupid. All I'm trying to tell you is that the professors make the school, not the students-- and that was a response to your original post, where you cited a tiny difference (incorrect) between the <em>SAT scores of current students</em>. Who the hell cares about a small difference in SAT scores? That's ridiculously petty. Why the hell do you care about other students in the first place? The professors make the school. SAT average, endowment, blah blah blah, all that crap you're citing-- who the hell cares?
As for your reference to Michigan--- I guess you didn't see that I advised the original poster to go to NU because its Medill School is outstanding. Michigan has similarly outstanding deparments. That doesn't make it a "better school" overall. Again, I'm talking about name recognition in general- you seem to have missed that point. Does NU's Journalism program have better name recognition than Cornell's? Er, yes, because Cornell doesn't <em>have</em> a Journalism program. The best journalism professors will accordingly flock to Medill. That makes that specific college better.</p>
<p>NU grad - you're citing facts that are statistically insignificant. 97% retention vs. 96%, give me a break! </p>
<p>"And Cornell doesn't exactly pay its professors on average as much as Northwestern"
And pay dictates "better" professors? What about the argument that the better school is the one that can draw top professors w/o paying as much?</p>
<p>"The only thing you are relying on are obsolete graduate school departmental rankings from 1990 that redcrim cited. Let's go by data"</p>
<p>ok, lets go by data for your statement: "I disagree with you that Cornell has better professors"</p>
<p>you cite:
Northwestern has a higher overall retention rate
higher graduation rate
lower faculty-student ratio
higher SAT average,
and a higher endowment</p>
<p>none of this has anything to do with the professors. Even if it did, the differences you cite are SO marginal between the schools, it'd be a terrible argument that would make any statistician weap. </p>
<p>"Just in that it is a member of a sports league (w. Harvard)"
you really think the scope of the ivy league in greater soceity is merely a sports league? I see.</p>
<p>gomestar, let's rememeber why the ivy league is known?</p>
<p>It is b/c Harvard, Yale, Princeton are among it. If Cornell was left out, would anyone care? If Harvard signed a petition to leave, the rest of the schools would get scared, b/c it would essentially undermine the ivy league brand.</p>
<p>alright. i went to northwestern this year. and im going to cornell next year as a transfer. to be honest, you should stop arguing about this. Theyre both great schools, and have their own pros and cons, but in my experience, NU is easy. I come across tons of really dumb people everyday here at northwestern. im leaving NU because the quarter system is just messed up and the student body really isn't that great- i dont care what sat scores say honestly getting an A here isn't hard. part of why im leaving is so that hopefully im more challenged.</p>
<p>and the professors at NU are notoriously bad at teaching, smart people, but not teachers. they pay high salaries to research gurus who are interested in their own stuff but teach just to get some dough. my nanotechology teacher this year was the smartest guy ive ever met but was a horrible teacher- slept in lecture sometimes!. im not taking a specific case and using it as evidence, this is the general idea at northwestern. the phrase goes: if you want to be in chicago and want good professors, go to u of chic. if you want to be in chicago and want to be drunk a lot: go to NU. Nu's a fine school but the student body isn't as great as any stats might suggest, in my experience at least- and ive been around thousands of freshmen,sophs, juniors, and seniors.</p>
<p>anyways, thats my take. i can only comment on northwestern, because i havn't been to cornell yet.</p>
<p>And my sister went to Cornell and I can comment on a few of her experiences. Lack of accessible professors. A lot of "dumb" kids from New York who are in the state schools there. Very unpersonalized education. Professors do not care about students. People are miserable b/c it is cloudy 9 months of the year. It is located near farmland. The list goes on and on. But good luck to you. If you think that Northwestern has stupid kids, good luck at Cornell. Those kids in the ag, ilr, and hum ec schools even have lower stats, and presumably are just as you say "stupid."</p>
<p>And I remember reading your post. Let's call a spade a spade. BlueDevil, you are transferring b/c Cornell is cheaper from a financial aid perspective. All of a sudden, you are changing your tune. Would you be leaving NU if Cornell was just as expensive. And being from New York (obviously you are, if you will be getting cheaper tuition), it is quite surprising that you would think Cornell kids would be smarter on average considering that as a new yorker, you probably are aware that new york kids get a HUGE advantage in terms of admission there.</p>
<p>I think we've reached the points where we should just ignore NUGrad5555's posts. Don't even bother....</p>
<p>Some of the schools at Cornell do not really use the SAT as a predictor or how well students are going to do in college. imo Cornell is very different from NU because it is so much more specialized since you have architecture students, hotelies, engineers, etc. It's true that hotelies and architecture students usually have lower SAT scores than the average at Cornell, but I would think that it's not really that important in terms of admissions. I think that their portfolio or interview is more valued. If you compare the SAT scores for Cornell AS or Engineering, I would think that they are either equal or higher than that of NU.</p>
<p>Cornell is at a disadvantage when it comes to these college rankings because it so specialized. Usually universities only have one undergraduate college. Cornell has 7 colleges with hundreds to thousands in each. Saying NU has a higher SAT average than that of Cornell would be like comparing an apple with half a dozen oranges and imo, disingenuous. To say that one is definitively better than the other is wrong.</p>
<p>BTW, what does the graduation rate tell you about the quality of education?</p>
<p>Personally, I'd pick CU over NU.</p>
<p>By the way, NUGrad, professors pretty much get paid crappily everywhere. Will a professor turn town a few extra thousand a year for a more prestigious job? I think you can make that call.
NUGrad, it's slightly ridiculous that you're so blindsided by your insecurities that you can't think of one- one! -reason why someone might transfer out of Northwestern besides for financial reasons.
Maybe...because...many of Cornell's programs are better than NU's? Because in fact, because those programs have better professors and better resources? Just throwing out an idea.</p>
<p>read my posts again. i would only stay at NU because i like my friends here that i live with. other than that, im not AT ALL challenged academically. and my family is in a tough financial situation so i have to transfer. I never said anything bad or good about cornell because i havn't experienced it.</p>
<p>i take offense to your comments. i am going to the Ag school for the bio. sciences program, because the science dept at northwestern isn't good at all. and im going to the ag school because im a science/math person and dont want to deal with CAS distros and requirements. and if you think im a "fluff" student then you are ignorant. and i never said anyone here was "stupid." don't misquote me. dumb and stupid are different things.</p>
<p>I am getting a cheaper tuition because of aid, not because of being at a state school. anyways, i never said that cornell kids were smarter either, (again, i said i dont know much about cornell), i just would hope so, because competition here is easy.</p>
<p>And are you still somehow unaware of the fact that <em>students do not make the school</em>? Good God, how many times do I have to repeat that pretty obvious fact? Who the hell cares if every single one of your college peers scored a 900 on their SAT? If the professors are outstanding, all the better for you. You're right, NUGrad, all those Agriculture school hicks will be too busy partying and being dumb; a comparably great student will have all the more opportunity to get the professor's attention, research opportunities, and a better overall education; am I right?
Idiot.</p>
<p>Let's just move on. From his past posts, you can tell he doesn't like Cornell and it's pretty obvious he is just grasping at straws in this thread. When you go to a school's forum and talk trash about the school in an abrasive tone this is what happens. People like him and JohnnyK quite frankly annoy me.</p>
<p>I am not trashing your school. The people on your own board said Cornell is a superior school. That is a line of b.s. and everyone know its. I have a sister that graduated 2 years ago. She could not stand it there and wanted to transfer out desperately, but eventually just decided to stick it out. My parents would not allow another kid in our house go there. I feel like prospective students are lured to Cornell, only to be disappointed. That was the meantality I got when i visited like 6 yeas ago (and yes, I got into CAS! even though I knew a ton of kids that applied to the state schools there). But let's be honest here, can you guys really say that Cornell is superior to Northwestern. There is not one attribute that Cornell has (besides having programs that are ranked higher by some arbitrary ranking that is usually based on citings per professor from 1990) that is deemed superior to Northwestern. Who cares at the end of the day. If bluedevil thinks that Cornell will be more challenging to him, hopefully that will be the case for him. I don't see how that would be possible considering that judging by stats, Cornell doesn't have smarter kids. In fact, I would argue on average, it has weaker students. And FYI, CAS by itself based on your data has sat scores that are IDENTICAL to the avreage of Northwestern as a total school. So please don't tell people that Cornell CAS is somehow a better school.</p>
<p>It's not often you see a supposed college graduate still citing SAT scores as the marker of school strength, but hey, if that's how you guys learned to develop arguments at NU, more power to you.</p>
<p>Ameechee, you have redcrim, that is citing SPECIFIC rankings for individual grad programs, which is pathetic in my opinion.</p>
<p>"A lot of "dumb" kids from New York who are in the state schools there."
I can't see how your sister can spend 4 years on the Cornell campus and not know much about the monetary connections with Cornell and the state. Lol, talk about stupid!</p>
<p>"Those kids in the ag, ilr, and hum ec schools even have lower stats, and presumably are just as you say "stupid.""
now you just have something aginst the contract colleges. This seems rather unfounded, perhaps one of them rejected you years ago (CAS? right). Otherwise, I don't see how you can mention these schools specifically as I believe hotel and AAP have the lower stats of these 5 mentioned colleges. </p>
<p>"The people on your own board said Cornell is a superior school"
who said that?</p>
<p>"I feel like prospective students are lured to Cornell, only to be disappointed"
based on the 96% retention rate? Right, 97% at NU is clearly superior. Excuse me for missing this detail. Cornell's massively rising applicant pool is more a matter of payoffs, right?</p>
<p>"I would argue on average, it has weaker students"
ok, argue it! I say that a 1500 SAT is equally capable as a 1520 SAT. Prove that this isn't the case. Will a kid with a 1500 NEVER be able to get above 1520 or even 1540 on another test?</p>
<p>Apparently, NUgrad has a split personality as well.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Ameechee, you have redcrim, that is citing SPECIFIC rankings for individual grad programs, which is pathetic in my opinion.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Pathetic in what way? The fact that those CU programs are more respected and have been ranked in a manner that completely outclass SAT scores? Please, enlighten me. Enlighten me as to how a 20 point SAT differential outweighs Cornell's stronger programs (particularly engineering). Can you even construct an argument that does not depend on high school tests and poorly construed logic?</p>
<p>You are grasping at straws and it's quite obvious that you have made no strong arguments. Let me ask you again: A college grad citing SAT scores as the marker of school superiority? I seriously wonder if you can actually picture yourself making these arguments and how ridiculous it is making you look.</p>