<p>Yeah, actually Duke's business school is lower than Cornell's on most rankings I saw, US News is actually the exception which has Duke higher (for this year)</p>
<p>what are the cultural and social diffrences between Cornell and Duke, b/c that should be one of the most important considerations when choosing btw. undergraduate schools</p>
<p>it'd be pretty tough to narrow down the culture of a place like Cornell. It's just too large. In general, the student body is extremely bright, hard working, and active in most everything socially, politically, athletically, etc. The stereotype is that the student body is cut throat and that Cornell has the highest suicide rate in the country, but these are both myths (to be exact, the suicide rate is nearly identical to the national average for all college students). The general crowd is VERY diverse at Cornell. There's jocks, computer geeks, and everything in between. The community around campus is very college oriented and caters hand and foot to the needs of the typical college student. Overall, student and town relationships are great. </p>
<p>Duke is a bit different from Cornell, at least according to talking to a few of my friends at Duke. There doesn't appear to be as much social interaction between the races (my black friend there says he ONLY hangs out with black people and my white friends say the opposite). Students seem to be a little more laid back at duke, though the town isn't very nice and my friends rarely go off campus for anything. Basketball and football seem to be much bigger at duke as well, partially due to the athletic conference they play in. The smaller studnent body will mean less diverse and fewer offerings (as far as clubs and social events, etc), but there's also less room to "get lost" in the crowd. </p>
<p>There was a Rolling stone article that interviewed some duke students, and the conclusion was pretty much there are those who are in the "elite" frats or athletes that all the girls in the "elite" sororities chace, and these are the people who rule campus. Sounded superficial, but I guess my friend said that a vote in the studnet newspaper said that this was generally true. I can't verify it, though.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I can't verify it, though.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Princeton Review's 2006 Ranking:
Little Race/Class Interaction
1 Miami University
2 University of New Hampshire
3 Washington and Lee University
4 Trinity College (CT)
5 Vanderbilt University
6 Duke University
7 Wake Forest University
8 Southern Methodist University
9 University of Richmond
10 Duquesne University
11 Texas Christian University
12 Rollins College
13 University of Denver
14 University of California-San Diego
15 Lafayette College
16 College of the Holy Cross
17 Hofstra University
18 Syracuse University
19 Fairfield University
20 State University of New York at Binghamton</p>
<p>Yes, a Princeton Review survey of current students at Duke says little class/race interaction...but how useful is that? Whose measure do you trust more, the Princeton Review (which changes its rankings significantly every year) or actual Black organizations?</p>
<p>Facts:
Duke is 16% black and hispanic, Cornell is 12% black and Hispanic - Duke is more diverse</p>
<p>Black Enterprise, the biggest black busines magazine, ranks Duke 14th as best place for a black student to go, Cornell is not in the top 20</p>
<p>Journal of Blacks in Higher Education, an even larger survey based ranking, said Duke was in the top 5 for elite schools were Black students should go, Cornell was outside the top 10 - the survey was endorsed by NAACP</p>
<p>So, who to trust, Princeton Review or Black Enterprise, or Journal of Blacks in Higher Education (btw, the latter two are actual black organizations)</p>
<p>Also, why do you keep mentioning diverse course offerings at Cornell? Its student-teacher ratio is much worse than Duke's and its average class size is higher...however, I don't really think that matters, just mentioning it though (Duke has similar problems with too many TAs)</p>
<p>Quick rundown:
Student Academic strength - DUKE. Duke students have 60 points higher on SATs than Cornell students, about 30 points when just compared to Arts and Sciences - Duke has 89 percent of its class in the top 10 percent, Cornell has 80 (though Duke is smaller and thus has a higher proportion of athletes, its also D1 btw). I haven't seen the source for Cornell's Arts and Sciences scores though. I'm not sure about the stats of the engineering schools either, but Duke's are probably higher or tied with Cornell even though Engineering is Cornell's speciality (again, no data so I might be way off...).</p>
<p>Diversity- TIE? PR says Duke is one of the worst, actual Black organizations says Duke is one of the best...I think I'd trust the latter over a student-based survey like PR uses</p>
<p>Professional School Placement - DUKE, Duke wins based on the top 15 professional schools (most of which are in fact Ivy League and Northeastern, whereas Duke is not in the Northeast and Cornell is)</p>
<p>Fun - to each his own....Duke has an intense drinking scene, also pot, some coke, I'm sure Cornell does as well. Duke has nationally recognized Basketball and a top 120 football team...Cornell has hockey. I'm sure either place you'll find friends.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Duke is 16% black and hispanic, Cornell is 12% black and Hispanic - Duke is more diverse
[/quote]
</p>
<p>My stats teacher's mantra was "lies, damn lies and statistics"</p>
<ul>
<li>Fact: Duke's African American percentage (Class of '09) is 9%</li>
<li>Fact: Duke's Class of '09 that hail from the South/Southeast: 38%</li>
<li>Fact: At the time of the 2000 Census, 54.8 percent of African Americans lived in the South.
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:New_2000_black_percent.gif%5B/url%5D">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:New_2000_black_percent.gif</a>
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Census-2000-Data-Top-US-Ancestries-by-County.jpg%5B/url%5D">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Census-2000-Data-Top-US-Ancestries-by-County.jpg</a></li>
</ul>
<p>vs:
- Fact: Cornell's Class of '09 that hail from the South/Southeast: 5%</p>
<p><a href="http://www.admissions.duke.edu/jump/applying/who_2009profile.asp%5B/url%5D">http://www.admissions.duke.edu/jump/applying/who_2009profile.asp</a><br>
<a href="http://admissions.cornell.edu/downloads/2009_profile.pdf#search=%22Cornell%20Class%20Profile%22%5B/url%5D">http://admissions.cornell.edu/downloads/2009_profile.pdf#search=%22Cornell%20Class%20Profile%22</a></p>
<p>So Cornell has only 5% of its class hailing from the South vs. Duke which has nearly 40% hailing from the South. Consider that the South is easily the largest %-age of African Americans living in the US (over HALF!) and Duke's 9% figure looks very weak indeed.</p>
<p>Wiat, what are you talking about?</p>
<p>Duke has a higher proportion of black people than Cornell does? Right? That was my point. </p>
<p>Seriously though, my point is Duke, proportionwise, has twice as many Black students as Cornell....</p>
<p>And black organizations also say Duke is better than Cornell for black students, but I guess your sleuthwork proves otherwise...</p>
<p>I actually think that that statistic from PR is really funny. From my experience so far at Duke, I can't go anywhere without seeing different races just hanging out, talking, partying, whatever together. My closest friends here at school are a white guy, an african-american girl, two indian girls, an indian guy, and a girl from israel. Now that's pretty diverse.</p>
<p>I just think that no one cares as much here about "having to interacially mix with each other (!)" as other places, so it just happens naturally, and goes unnoticed b/c it's not really that big a deal.</p>
<p>thoughtprocess,</p>
<p>you're obviously a very bright guy. so why the "head in the sand" about plain and simple facts?</p>
<ul>
<li>roughly 40% of Duke's class is from the Southeast.</li>
<li>African Americans comprise of approx 14% of the TOTAL US population </li>
<li>the largest African American population is the Southeast = over half of African Americans that live in the US live in the Southeast. Period.</li>
<li>so, Duke's 9% is relatively low</li>
</ul>
<p>How can you even argue with those facts?</p>
<p>The_prestige, because thats like ... just a dumb argument...I mean, sure, Duke's 9% is relatively low...but fact is it is more diverse than Cornell. Are you saying Duke should be more diverse than it already is? In that case, go ahead and find application data and see if Duke rejects black students at a higher rate than Cornell. Do that, and then we'll talk diversity.</p>
<p>However...
FACT: Duke has twice as many African American students as Cornell proportionally
FACT: Duke is rated better for black students than Cornell by two major Black organizations and is rated near the top</p>
<p>OPINION: Why are we arguing about diversity again? Isn't it obvious from just whats written on collegeboard.com that Duke is more diverse? Why are you trying to pretend like its not....</p>
<p>AZN - PR is based on student surveys, so it was actually Duke students who replied and said Duke had poor race interaction...however, next year, if you and your friends get to take that same survey and say Duke is great for it, than Duke might be ranked completely different</p>
<p>Duke probably has more than 38% from the South. </p>
<p>The Duke Web site uses a definition of the South that excludes Virginia. I suspect that quite a few Duke students come from that state.</p>
<p>In any case, though, the statistics do seem to indicate that Duke has greater racial diversity. In contrast, Cornell has greater diversity in terms of the academic and professional interests of its students, simply because it offers many programs that do not exist at Duke (hotel administration, anyone?). So I guess the choice of campus may depend on what kind of diversity an applicant is looking for (among many other factors).</p>
<p>
[quote]
FACT: Duke has twice as many African American students as Cornell proportionally
[/quote]
</p>
<p>thoughtprocess, c'mon</p>
<p>Cornell has a mere 5% of its class population that hails from the South
Duke has 40% of its class population that hails from the South</p>
<p>Simple math: Duke has 8 TIMES more people from the South than Cornell (if you include border states like Virginia as the previous poster states, its even higher)</p>
<p>Half of all African American's in the US live in the South - over 20% of the Southern population. So Duke's 9% number is very very low.</p>
<p>How can you even being to compare Duke's African American numbers to Cornell when only 5% of the Cornell's class hails from the South while nearly half of Duke's class comes from the South? Of course Duke's absolute and proportionate numbers are going to be higher - the point is THEY SHOULD BE EVEN HIGHER.</p>
<p>Ok, I concede to you, even though Duke is already more diverse than Cornell and is one of the most highly recommended schools by black organizations, Duke should strive to have a half-black student body. Otherwise, well, its just unfair.</p>
<p>He's not saying it should be half-black, he's just saying it should be more representative considering the region it draws a great deal of students from. I don't agree but it's a fair argument to make.</p>
<p>
[quote]
The Duke Web site uses a definition of the South that excludes Virginia. I suspect that quite a few Duke students come from that state.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>The highest-achieving students in VA tend to live in the DC suburbs. I happen to hail from that area and I can tell you that I am most definitely NOT a Southerner. :p</p>
<p>
[quote]
Ok, I concede to you, even though Duke is already more diverse than Cornell and is one of the most highly recommended schools by black organizations, Duke should strive to have a half-black student body. Otherwise, well, its just unfair.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Did you mean to write:</p>
<p>Duke's African American population is severely underrepresented given that nearly half of Duke's class hails from the South and the South has the highest %-age of African Americans living in the US (over half of all blacks live in the South). But as it is, less than 1 out of every 10 Dukies are African American.</p>
<p>Black organizations recommend African Americans to attend the best schools in the regions where there are the highest concentration of African Americans, namely the South - Duke being one of those schools. Why is that so surprising?</p>
<p>
[quote]
Duke should strive to have a half-black student body.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Was that sarcasm? Or just flat out racism? C'mon show some more of your true "colors", I know you're dying to...</p>
<p>I'm not sure what the point of this argument is, unless you're both looking to draw AA into this...?</p>
<p>Lol, ok...but I mean, is there even a problem? Like, should Duke force black students to apply? Unless Duke rejects blacks at a higher rate than Cornell there isn't any thing worth discussing.</p>
<p>Like I said, Duke is already more diverse than Cornell and is better for black students according to black organizations lol, they don't see any problem with Duke not having more black students than any other top 10 school in the country....</p>
<p>btw, that was sarcasm. I'm also anti-AA though I benefit from it.</p>
<p>FACT:
My point is that Duke is more diverse than Cornell and black organizations say Duke is better for black students.</p>
<p>Sure, you can say Duke should have more black students...thats fine, just say "Duke is more diverse than Cornell already, but because of blahblahblah it should be even more diverse" </p>
<p>So, lets go over what can't be debated because facts show the truth:
- Duke is more diverse than Cornell by proportion
- Duke has a stronger student body statistically, even when ignoring Cornell's weaker students, also has more national merit scholars
- Duke sends more students to 15 top professional schools in a somewhat biased survey</p>
<p>Now, please find data showing Duke rejects black students at a higher rate than Cornell - also, find the demographics of college-age African American students...better yet.... see how many of them are planning on applying to top 10 schools in the first place...</p>
<p>The BEST jobs are primarily recruited from schools without undergrad business. If you want to be an accountant, and engineer, or a nurse places like Cornell win, but if you want to go to a top consulting firm or into finance Duke has a much stronger reputation. AND most top students realize these jobs are far superior by graduation. That is why so few MIT engineers actually go into engineering, they realize the elite business jobs are the most desirable place for top students (at least in terms of career trajectory). </p>
<p>You'd be better off graduating from Cornell with an econ degree over AEM.</p>
<p>
[quote]
but if you want to go to a top consulting firm or into finance Duke has a much stronger reputation.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Totally disagree with you Slipper. Cornell's reputation is better than Duke's vis a vis Wall Street and just as good in consulting.</p>
<p>Haha...see, I say Duke is stronger than Cornell based on on-the-record facts...lots of them, of all kinds, in every measurable way...the_prestige say Cornell is stronger than Duke's based on NOTHING but anecdotes</p>
<p>Why would Cornell students be more highly sought after if they are weaker than Duke students? I just don't get it. Are there more high-ranking Cornell alums in finance than Duke? Show me a list and maybe I'll believe you.</p>