Cornell vs UPenn vs Brown

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<p>There really isn’t any grade deflation at Cornell for premeds. You are expected to study hard and to learn the material, but none of the professors are set to hand out Cs just because of spite. Norcalguy can speak extensively on this subject. </p>

<p>I also think you are right to look beyond the medical school acceptance rates at each institution. In the end, the only acceptance rate that is going to matter is yours, and that will either be a 0 or 1. And I can tell you that school differences between Penn, Brown, and Cornell play a very minor role (if any) in influencing your med school process relative to your own personal characteristics.</p>

<p>The other thing to note is that these med school admit statistics are notoriously self-reported and incomparable across schools. Some schools may or may not include recent graduates who have also applied to med school. Other schools may or may not include admissions to D.O. programs.</p>

<p>Let’s put it this way: I don’t know anybody from Cornell who I felt was qualified to attend medical school who didn’t get into medical school. And very few of these individuals I now know in medical school spent their Friday and Saturday nights in the library.</p>

<p>Also, it appears that the vast majority of the pre-med courses appear to have a B or B+ median. And the English courses tend to have an A- median.</p>

<p><a href=“http://registrar.sas.cornell.edu/Grades/MedianGradeFA08.pdf[/url]”>http://registrar.sas.cornell.edu/Grades/MedianGradeFA08.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>GPA is GPA regardless of whether you got it a Uchicago (severe deflation) or brown (severe inflation). I think the competition parts of each school are way overplayed. None of the students at any of these schools will try to sabotage your senior thesis or whatever, even at Hopkins. As a matter of fact, I would say that probably students at ALL of these schools will be friendly. Brown has the least competitive environment. </p>

<p>About the hippy nature of brown, it is considered the pot head school of the ivy league, much as cornell is considered the agriculture school of the ivy league, and harvard is considered the ****** bag school of the ivy league. Its a stereotype that may or not be true, but it does exist for a reason. There will be a ton of kids with shaggy dark hear that wear tight jeans, flannel shirts moccasins, and smoke cigarettes, if not weed. If you want to know what type of thing Brown students do for fun, look up “brown SexPowerGod” on google.</p>

<p>EATYOURCEREAL, you did not “choose” Cornell over Penn. You were never accepted to Penn.</p>

<p>Also, Brown was indeed considered the worst Ivy League school until the late 60s. Read this, Monydad originally posted it:
" The story of how Brown has come to attract ambitious self-starters as
applicants is well-told in Bill Mayher’s 1998 book, The College Admissions
Mystique. In 1969, Brown’s new admissions director James Rogers decided that
he ought to be able to exploit the Magaziner-Maxwell curriculum to pull
Brown out from underneath the doormat of the Ivy League. And underneath the
doormat is where it was.</p>

<p>When I was applying to colleges at that time, Brown was all but
invisible to the college placement office of my prep school. Between Brown
and the other Ivies in the pecking order there lay twenty schools, including
most of the Seven Sisters, Wesleyan, Haverford, Bowdoin, the service
academies, Reed and other top regional schools, and perhaps five top state
universities. In New England, Brown was considered better than Trinity and
Brandeis, but only barely better. The favorite backup college choices at my
prep school were North Carolina, Wesleyan, Penn, and, believe it or not,
Stanford (which accepted the bottom-ranked person in my class).</p>

<p>In the mid-1960s Wesleyan was enjoying a real vogue. It had got rich
all of a sudden (Xerox stock), had published Norman O. Brown’s Life Against
Death, and was helping invent minority recruitment. Because Middletown is
close to Providence, Wesleyan has always shared its applicant pool with
Brown, and in those days, as Ron Medley may wi****lly recall, Wesleyan was
unquestionably the harder place to get into.</p>

<p>So in 1969, James Rogers of Brown considered his situation and hit on a
plan which is now legendary among admissions officers. He hired members of
the classes of 1970 and 1971 and sent them out on the road to pitch the
Brown Curriculum. Their instructions were to look for students in the second
quintile who were lively interviewees and who showed iconoclastic
tendencies. The Young Turks of the admissions office made a hit wherever
they went and applications rose almost immediately. Rogers was then in a
position to implement phase two. He began rejecting students in the top
quintile who had made Brown their third choice. Word quickly went round the
secondary school placement offices that Brown was no longer easy.</p>

<p>There was another component of the Rogers strategy, one that Bill
Mayher’s book misses. Rogers was a preppy from Taft and understood that it
is preppies who put elite colleges in fashion. Rogers made Brown
prep-friendly. He began to accept twenty and thirty people a year from
Andover, Exeter, Choate, St. Paul’s, and Harvard-Westlake. He made Brown the
first backup choice at the leading schools, and by the mid-1970s, New York,
Los Angeles, and the exurbs of America had gotten the message. The seal of
approval was given in a 1975 article in the Sunday New York Times, titled
“Everybody Wants to Go to Brown.” (There have been many such articles since,
culminating in a perverse extravaganza in last February’s Vanity Fair,
titled “School for Glamour.”) "</p>

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<p>I recall reading EATYOURCEREAL write that he did not apply to Penn, because he already knew that it was not his cup of tea (to put it mildly). He chose to apply to Cornell. I’d call that a clear cut choice.</p>

<p>It’s choice, but it is not “choosing one school over the other.”</p>

<p>For example, if I decided to apply ED to Vanderbilt instead of Harvard, I would not say that I had “chosen Vanderbilt over Harvard.” That’s misleading, to say the least.</p>

<p>What EATYOURCEREAL should say is that he chose to APPLY to Cornell over Penn. Of course, that wouldn’t allow him bragging rights and it sounds ridiculous, which is why he phrases things differently.</p>

<p>Anyway, I think I’m going to leave this thread now. It’s pretty foolish for anyone currently in college to think that Cornell and Penn are on par with each other in any college besides engineering (where admittedly Cornell destroys Penn).</p>

<p>Sure, their acceptance rates are 2.5% apart, but they still inhabit entirely different planes of the hierarchy. Selectivity is more about SATs and GPA than acceptance rate, and in this regard Penn still easily ranks among Dartmouth, Brown and Columbia, and no this is not all Wharton. Wharton’s SAT average is only 14 points higher than CAS, this according to Lee Stetson just before his departure. It’s documented in the book From Wharton to Wall Street, which you can look up online.</p>

<p>People keep telling me that Cornell A&S has the same SAT average as Columbia, Dartmouth, Penn et al, but has this actually been documented? I’d be interested to see it.</p>

<p>^ more like 1.89 percent different (according to ivygateblog.com). That is within the margin of error too lol.</p>

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<p>You’re right. By academic reputation alone Cornell is a better place to study biology, physics, chemistry, astronomy, classics, sociology, creative writing, English, German, comparative literature, Russian, East Asian studies, landscape design, South Asian studies, labor relations, horticulture, nutrition, food science, human development, plant science, architecture, mathematics, statistics, and hotel management.</p>

<p>Oh, and basketball too, now, apparently. Keep on having fun in an empty Palestra.</p>

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<p>You know what? Not that it matters, but it wasn’t too long ago that Upenn had nearly a 50% acceptance rate:</p>

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<p>[Online</a> Encyclopedia and Dictionary - Ivy League](<a href=“Your Free Online Encyclopedia and Dictionary Resource”>Online dictionary - Ivy League)</p>

<p>Penn never was all that selective, and even today, relatively speaking, non-Wharton Penn (or Cornell for that matter) is not ultra-selective, but Wharton is.</p>

<p>For the sake of your psychological health, I would advise you to transfer to Wharton, but it’s too bad that you can’t… you’re an external transfer student at Penn. Apparently, Wharton doesn’t permit external transfers to internally transfer into Wharton, since they clearly don’t want people backdooring into their school since Wharton is obviously a notch above the rest of Penn:</p>

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<p>[Penn</a> Admissions: Transferring into the Wharton School](<a href=“http://www.admissionsug.upenn.edu/applying/transwharton.php]Penn”>http://www.admissionsug.upenn.edu/applying/transwharton.php)</p>

<p>STOP STOP STOP STOP</p>

<p>we already went through this on the penn v cornell thread,
according the the NRC rankings, Cornell and Penn are TIED (cornell outranks penn the same number of times penn outranks cornell)</p>

<p>THEY ARE *<strong><em>ING TIED, quit *</em></strong>*ing, they are both great schools, blah blah blah.</p>

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<p>If EATYOURCEREAL gave due consideration to both schools, and then applied only to Cornell because he much preferred Cornell for his interests, then he did choose “over” Penn. Your parsing here is pointless.</p>

<p>Cornell is technically WAY better than Dartmouth and Brown for grad school - that’s all NRC is though.</p>

<p>You can’t use it to compare undergraduate quality.</p>

<p>Here are the SAT ranges: [Ivy</a> League SAT Scores - Compare SAT Scores for Ivy League Schools](<a href=“http://collegeapps.about.com/od/sat/a/sat_side_x_side.htm]Ivy”>Ivy League SAT Score Comparison for Admission)</p>

<p>Notice that Penn/Columbia/Dart/Brown are all far above Cornell, but within range of each other. And as I’ve said before - Wharton DOES NOT skew the SAT average more than about 4 points - it only makes up 19% of the school, and has only about 10 points higher average.</p>

<p>Sorry guys, you lose.</p>

<p>Think what you may, but EATYOURCEREAL told me in confidence yesterday that she did apply to Penn and was REJECTED (who saw that coming??). How do I know this you may be asking–well, I am ashamed to say that we are actually long lost Cereal Sisters. Go GIRL! my cereal brings all the boys to the yard…and they’re like it’s better than yours…</p>

<p>IHATECEREAL = muerteapablo</p>

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<p>No. We’ve been through this before. And your abillity to keep on lying through your teeth and against all documented facts is a rather remarkable quality.</p>

<p>Notice how the schools at Cornell comparable to Penn/Columbia/Dart/Brown – CAS and Engineering – have exactly the same SAT ranges as these schools?</p>

<p><a href=“http://dpb.cornell.edu/documents/1000176.pdf[/url]”>http://dpb.cornell.edu/documents/1000176.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Let me know when Penn or Brown decide to start educating students in horticulture or hospitality. Then we’ll be able to compare more apples to apples.</p>

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<p>Wait a second, Penn and Cornell’s SAT scores are virtually identical according to the link you posted…</p>

<p>Cornell’s Math Range: 660-770
Penn’s Math Range: 680-770</p>

<p>Cornell’s Reading Range: 630-730<br>
Penn’s Reading Range: 650-750</p>

<p>Is that the best you could do? Come on now… And that’s not even accounting for drop in scores caused by the specialty programs that Cornell has. Remove those, and Cornell’s would be even higher than Penn’s. </p>

<p>If you would like to provide constructive advice to the OP, the please do so. Otherwise, refrain from making stupid, immature comments and leave. Remember that you represent your school on this forum, and that prospective students may be turned away from Penn due to your idiocy.</p>

<p>advice to the OP – it is silly to choose schools based on admissions statistics – choose the school that you think “fits” you best.</p>

<p>@CayugaRed Thank you, that’s a relief =] I don’t want to go to college feeling I have to overcome some unfair deflation system. I want to go to college to work hard and have fun.</p>

<p>@Tboone- Alright, thanks =] I’m gonna try to give Hopkins a fair chance and visit for a day too. And I will definitely google “brown SexPowerGod”.</p>

<p>@Cornellian - Will do. I’m looking for fit at this point =]</p>

<p>I’d like to ask everyone who isn’t really adding anything to the thread to stop bashing other schools. It’s really bumming me out and not really helping. I think all these schools are great, no one has to convince me. I mean, regardless of which one might rank higher in one area or another, they’re all pretty much in the top 20 and in the ivy league, so it kinda doesn’t matter much at that point…</p>

<p>What I do like to know is what you feel makes the school special to you. Maybe a personal anecdote about your school or your own unique experience there. Friends, campus, ECs, classes, professors, anything…Something that makes you feel your school is great. Or not, up to you. I understand if you guys are tired of this thread since it kinda took an odd turn…</p>

<p>muertea made a new account I see</p>

<p>I did choose Cornell over Penn- I chose to apply ED to Cornell instead of Penn largely because of the attitude of many Penn students that muerteapablo has so perfectly exemplified on these forums.</p>

<p>Can we somehow ban Cornell vs. Penn threads? Always the same old bickering over 2% difference in acceptance rate and 20 points difference in SAT scores. Pathetic.</p>

<p>…there’s something about Duke and UPenn students. It’s a remarkably consistent attitude in both real life and on these forums. Likewise, I’ve always appreciated the way Cornell students seem to keep it all in a little better perspective (just my own observation).</p>

<p>Viviolay - When I was there, academics aside, I used to love going out to my professor’s organic farm for weekend parties and go on wine tours and hike the gorges and see my friends perform on stage in various ways. I also enjoyed having friends from truly divergent backgrounds - from urban poor to farmers to Long Island preppy to NYC / LA chic… Really was an interesting exposure that drove us all to find our common ground. </p>

<p>I found the breadth of fields Cornell offers precisely what I needed for my personal needs. I would have been miserable at a place like Penn - not because it’s in any way a bad school, but just not suited to my interests or needs. </p>

<p>Like I said before, you’ve lived the city life. I think it would behouve you to at least consider something different.</p>