<p>Between Dartmouth Penn and Cornell, which is the best school to choose if I want:</p>
<p>To be able to conduct research as an undergrad</p>
<p>strong science areas such as Biochemistry, Biophysics, Physics, Chemistry</p>
<p>strong pre med</p>
<p>not cutthroat competitive </p>
<p>good helpful professors</p>
<p>an overall good undergrad experience</p>
<p>nice weather (not a big factor)</p>
<p>Penn is the hardest of those 3 to get into. That said, Cornell’s “hard sciences,” i.e. chem and bio, are probably considered better. Its premed is far more competitive and rigorous. I transferred from Cornell to Penn, so I know this first-hand.</p>
<p>If you’re interested in bio/premed:
Penn is easier for research because our med school is on campus (instead of 5 hours away for Cornell) and has a ton ton ton med research going on around here. For those who don’t know, Penn med is the biggest part of the school.
If you’re really interested in biochemistry and research, Penn has a special biochem research honors program ([Vagelos</a> Scholars Program in Molecular Life Sciences](<a href=“http://www.sas.upenn.edu/biochem/vspmls.html]Vagelos”>http://www.sas.upenn.edu/biochem/vspmls.html)) really geared to someone looking for a PhD later in life.
Eh, I’d say none of these schools are “cut throat”. Dartmouth is the chillest, but it’s not like students at any of these schools are fighting eachother for grades. Good grades in science/premed classes arent easy to come by at Penn, but if you put in the time and work hard enough, you should get an A (my experiences anyway).
All these schools have good helpful professors. Unless you’re really into tiny classes and knowing your professors really well, it doesn’t matter where you go, but if you crave that stuff I’d say go to Dartmouth for the LACy feel.<br>
All these schools are very different in terms of what they offer for undergrad experiences. If you’re into an urban campus with a more preprofessional slant and other stuff that makes Penn different from these other schools, then it’s for you.</p>
<p>Objectively Dartmouth with a 13.2% acceptance rate and avg. SAT scores 30 points higher than Penn’s in the most selective. In reality, Penn and Dartmouth are about the same with Cornell as less selective. </p>
<p>Dartmouth is fantastic in terms of research opportunities for undergrads, advising (nathan smith society), and overall attention. Dartmouth spends the most on advising and undergrad research/ grants among the Ivies. It also is much friendlier and less cutthroat than many of the other Ivies. IMO its the best fit.</p>
<p>Penn is twice as large, and has a much higher yield for matriculation… do you really think Dartmouth is more selective?
Do you see Dartmouth or Cornell on this list: [The</a> Ten Toughest Schools to Get Into - MSN Encarta](<a href=“http://encarta.msn.com/college_article_tentoughestschools/the_most_competitive_admissions.html]The”>http://encarta.msn.com/college_article_tentoughestschools/the_most_competitive_admissions.html)</p>
<p>Is Dartmouth ranked higher by the OBJECTIVE UsNews selectivity ranking?
No.</p>
<p>Also, Dartmouth’s acceptance rate is 15.3%. That’s not really different from Penn’s 16%.</p>
<p>Whatevs…effectively they are equally difficult to get into. And both schools do a great job at med school placement, although probably for different reasons. I imagine Dartmouth has better advising (or at least spends more money on it), whereas Penn has 3 hospitals right on campus (Presby, HUP, and CHOP) which = research opportunities galore.</p>
<p>So it should really be about fit. Big school in a city, or small school in the woods? There is no objectively better choice; it’s all about personal fit.</p>
<p>No, its actually 13.2% vs. 16.4%. </p>
<p>[url=<a href=“ivysuccess.com is for sale”>ivysuccess.com is for sale]Admission_Stats_2011[/url</a>]</p>
<p>USNEWS selectivity is one year late, and it inordinately puts extra weight on top 10% vs. SAT. Do you really think WashU is more selective than Stanford? Also Penn takes 48% of its class ED vs. 34% at Dartmouth, which pretty much accounts for the difference. RD yield, which is what matters, is the same at the two.</p>
<p>I agree with ilovebagels that they are pretty much about the same selectivity. Columbia and Brown are also in the same category. Cornell is IMO slightly less selective than DCPB.</p>
<p>Fine, I guess it’s just a ****ing contest for DCPB.</p>
<p>Pretty much…</p>
<p>Well we can all say “at least we’re better than Cornell” ;)</p>
<p>Don’t worry, in 10 years Penn will be undeniably better than all the lower Ivies, except possibly Columbia which is, like us, a research powerhouse.</p>
<p>Keep believing that…I’ll take the undergrad focused Ivies anyday.</p>
<p>^ I.e., the overgrown LACs. :)</p>
<p>Sadly, premed is competitive at all universities. The fact of the matter is that your application to med school is numbers driven (GPA and MCAT) followed by research, volunteer work, etc. If you are 100% certain you want to become a doctor, I would look into some dual degree programs since med school has become increasingly difficult to get into. Best of luck! :)</p>
<p>I disagree, you can still get into medical school with the basic numbers game, no dual degree necessary. Check out mdapplicant . com.</p>
<p>Sorry, I meant mdapplicants . com.</p>
<p>Muerteapablo: I totally agree with you… but I have seen too many of my friends (at various colleges) lose their dream, when they didn’t make the “numbers” due to Freshman adjustment, orgo, etc. I wasn’t clear, but what I was saying is that if it is the OPs goal (100%) to become a doctor, and he doesn’t care about stepping a notch down in his undergraduate education, there are some fine dual programs that would ease some of the stress faced by premeds. It’s just another avenue for him to research.</p>
<p>In that case, I agree. I want to stress, though, that making it through Cornell premed is a brutal spanking. I’m at Penn now, but I took chem at Cornell, and it was needlessly tedious. Not at all difficult, per se; the exams reflected the homework. But the chem department was a study in academic bureaucracy, and they would get you for little mistakes. I’m personally more in favor of the no-BS, you-either-know-it-or-you-don’t approach, but they don’t do it that way. They nitpick you down to the bone, and then spit in your face. And I’m not a weak chem student, I got a 770 on the SAT II and a 5 on the AP, but that class will truly test your resolve.</p>
<p>Sorry, that was a long rant. Basically, if you have choice, I would advise against the Cornell route for premed.</p>