Cornellians for Obama

<p>
[quote]
love when Obama supporters make statements like this. They attribute completely false experiences and values to him just because they admire the personality cult that he's created. I'm shocked people aren't making statues of him and calling him Saint Obama.

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</p>

<p>Although Obama had access to high-class education and other socioeconomic opportunities in his upbringings, you have got to give him credit for establishing himself such a prominent figure in modern politics, especially as a non-white person. It is unprecedented in American history. He is the first non-white person ever to win the democratic nomination. He is the first non-white person ever to produce this much anticipation and excitement, especially among many young Americans, who are being drawn into politics just because of his commanding presence. He is truly an inspirational figure, not just a regular politician like John McCain(no offense). Imo, only handful of formal U.S. politicians in the 20th century had this much public attention and charisma: John F Kennedy and Franklin Roosevelt.</p>

<p>Didn't read the second half of the thread, but I'm just going to say I agree with Cayuga. God man, if you are going to debate about serious issues such as politics, even if you do so on the internet, at least type semi legibly. Doesn't have to be perfect, but it shouldn't be painful to read. That just weakens your arguments.</p>

<p>Honestly(and i am gonna emphasize internet lingo here too) wat generation r u in that u cannot read internet lingo? This is a forum, and forums are where thins language was made. Geez get over it. It's the summertime and ill leave the correct spelling for when I get back to Cornell.</p>

<p>It's so sad when Cornellians have to emphaisze the fact they got to Cornell amongst other Cornellians, who obviously go to the same school, on the internet. Get over yourselves!</p>

<p>"omg like no way! like for real bbl ttyl lol g2g rotfl!"</p>

<p>How much effort does it really take to type out the whole world? It makes you sound so much more the part of an intellectual. Take the extra split second to write down the entire word and sound like the Cornellian you worked oh so hard to be.</p>

<p>I don't think it matters what generation I am in. Have some common courtesy for the other readers. And for yourself. </p>

<p>Typing 'your' instead of 'ur' takes around a third of a second longer.</p>

<p>And saying that "it's the summertime" is just about the emptiest excuse ever.</p>

<p>I was going to address the HRC supporters claims of sexism, elitism and whatever other nonsense-ism they continue to spew, but I get too annoyed to write coherently. This one "she ran the country for eight years" is the biggest whopper of all. Anyway here is an article from TPM that sums up where we are and where ought to be, without getting personal. It's a little long but worth the read.</p>

<p>Can Progressives Unite, or Will It Be the Same Old Bit-Politics Story?
By Theda Skocpol - July 11, 2008, 6:41PM</p>

<p>Michael Kinsley has an incisive opinion piece at TIME/CNN called "Divided They Fall" -- and I urge everyone to read it. Kinsley points out that Republicans are setting aside their gripes about McCain and uniting to do battle, but progressives and Democrats are up to the same old internal sniping: single issue people bashing Obama for moving to the middle or voting a certain way on FISA, when his vote made no difference at all to the outcome; Clintonites using media sexism in the primary as an excuse to threaten to stay home or vote for McCain; fat cats who backed Clinton complaining to the New York Times, along with the blustering egotists like Carville; Jesse Jackson sniping about the common-sense notion that black people might have to be good parents as well as expect help from government.</p>

<p>This leaves one very sad. The social and redistributive stakes in this election are enormous. McCain can easily win if this summer is wasted, if Democrats do not unite and go on the offensive, if funders withold their efforts, if gripers undermine. But that seems to be what we are all doing.</p>

<p>I look back over an adult lifetime of this, of identity-oriented and single-issue groups undermining any chance for a convincing message relevant to all working middle class people. This lack of discipline and inability to sort out the fundamental from the partial is what has made it so hard for Democrats to win -- and has cost the country terribly in terms of the undermining of middle class wellbeing. Why are we doing it again? Why are we playing along with all the diversions and distractions the media wants to pursue, rather than speaking loudly with one voice for Obama and in drumbeat criticism of McCain? The summer weeks are precious, as we should have learned in 2004 -- mistakes now cannot be fixed later. At a moment when a core, long-term econmic advisor to McCain, Phil Gramm, has revealed the true heartlessness and stupidity behind conservative economic doctrines, we progressives are still talking about Jackson and FISA and Clinton's debts and overwrought claims of sexism. We are not hitting McCain/Gramm/Bush again and again in ways that would force some of the media, at least, to give the Gramm revelations -- they WERE revelations, not a "gaff" -- half the attention and staying power of the Wright ravings!</p>

<p>About ten days ago, I was finishing breakfast at my favorite diner, when I was joined by a well-known 60s-something feminist friend. I won't name her, but people would recognize and respect her if I did. We got to talking about the election, and she left me utterly depressed some 45 minutes later (during which I kept my patience and my cool while arguing, but felt devastated). She probably won't vote for Obama, she says, because she has to "punish" the Democratic party for its sexist treatment of Clinton. "We cannot wait" any longer for a woman president, she says, and she won't accept an "unqualified" man who "cannot win." She barely listened when I told her I could hardly believe what she was saying, that women above all suffer from the terrible economic policies that have been followed the past two decades. It makes a big difference for most working women, most families, who wins this fall -- because, as the research of Larry Bartels and others shows, Democrats follow very different social and tax policies. This is not just about abortion law. It is about the wellbeing of the middle and working strata in this country, and when they suffer, women and children suffer the most.</p>

<p>My friend was so tied up in her identity-politics bitterness she could not see the larger issues. Generations of women in American public life would be aghast at the navel-gazing nature of this sort of feminism, I realized. The women I wrote about in PROTECTING SOLDIERS AND MOTHERS, who always thought about the more vulnerable and families, would never understand an early-twenty-first-century kind of feminism that privileges bitterness and revenge about Hillary Clinton (who entered public life as a political spouse) over the wellbeing of the working nation's families. Jane Addams would not believe this.</p>

<p>I have been kind of depressed ever since that morning at the diner, especially because the supposedly progressive blogs are full of similar kinds of diversions -- and Obama's campaign is clearly being hurt by the lack of unity and discipline, as well as by its own tentativeness. I am not so sure progressives are going to do what is necessary to win -- even in this year when all the stars should be aligned. Unity and practical realism are the order of the day, and the fire must be directed outward, not inward. Can we do It?</p>

<p>I do think a large part of Obama not being so far ahead is b/c of bitter Clinton supporters. I remember in a poll of them only about 60% were planning on voting for Obama. This is just ridiculous and is truly tearing the party apart. People act like there somehow won't be a backlash from McCain winning. This is such an important election and Democrats should be slaughtering Republicans. If Obama doesn't win very bad things could happen that almost everyone would agree is undemocratic. The Supreme Court, which could do things such as overturn Roe v. Wade, could be absolutely DOMINATED by Republicans due to all of the oldest judges being the liberals who are close to retirement. How does that sound Clinton supporters who are holding out their vote. U will be forced to follow a pro-life agenda. The government will force it's policy on ur (or ur loved one's) bodies. But hey, since ur didn't vote it's not your fault right? WRONG!</p>

<p>I just hope Clinton supporters are holding out their vote in the hopes Clinton will VP...but hopefully they end up voting for Obama in the end.</p>

<p>Personally, it has only been a month since Hillary suspended her candidacy. There is plenty of time for the soccer_guys of the world to come to the logical, pragmatic choice. And if you don't think that every political campaign doesn't have shady underpinnings of the type that are alleged to have occurred in the caucuses, you are woefully naive. In fact, one could argue that it is the mark of a skilled leader and politician to be able to get away with such shenanigans with nary a scrape. How else did Bush get away with all of the illegalities of Florida and Ohio in the last two elections?</p>

<p>Cynical? Of course. The truth. Yes? </p>

<p>Read this week's New Yorker if you don't believe that Obama is nothing but a gifted and shrewd Chicago politician. </p>

<p>It's the economy, stupid. A couple more months of this economy (and trust me, things are only going to get rougher) and even a lot of die hard McCain supporters will be joining the Obama band wagon. The supply-siders and corporatists have proven that they are woefully inept at stewarding the economy. Deregulation may provide for some private-sector reward, sure, but only for a time, and then the public sector will have to pick up all the costs.</p>

<p>The Treasury's revenues are down 6 percent year over year. Think about that for a second.</p>

<p>CayugaRed: while hillary has been known to be a **** for years, obama said he was a different kind of candidate...and lately he has been showing his true colors...so much that i have more respect for mccain than him...instead of running a clean campaign, obama is appeasing the crowds and playing dirty vis-a-vis his aids...</p>

<p>And where, exactly, does this respect for McCain come from?</p>

<p>McCain is just as much a politician as any of them. His "straight talk" goes around in circles.</p>

<p>I don't deny that Obama is more shrewd and more 'political' than people make him out to be, but at the end of the day he is a different kind of candidate for the Democratic party. Whereas Kerry and Gore would pander and calculate in public, Obama's language and attitude is one of bringing the nation together. </p>

<p>If you look at all of the Presidents so esteemed in the history of the country -- Jefferson, Lincoln, Truman, JFk -- they were all a lot more shrewd and political than you may believe in the fictionalized version of history taught in high school.</p>

<p>But at the end of the day, vote on policy, not on the person. If you really think four more years of Bush's playbook is going to move the country forward, that's another story.</p>

<p>I agree McCain is no longer a maverick but at least he hasn't been saying "IM CHANGE, BLAH BLAH BLAH"</p>

<p>Senator Obama has actually laid out a pretty extensive list of policy prescriptions and administrative changes that would occur in his White House.</p>

<p>But please tell me... what has McCain been saying? </p>

<p>I heard some promises that he would balance the budget. But how he hopes to do that without raising taxes or cutting defense spending is beyond me.</p>

<p>I heard him say that Social Security was "broke" because it requires current generations to pay for older generations. But that's funny, because it was the way one of the greatest pieces of legislation in our country's history was designed.</p>

<p>I heard him advocate for a gas tax holiday and for drilling in Alaska, even though both would do nothing to change the amount of oil demanded nor the prevailing world price for oil.</p>

<p>You may not like the way Obama campaigns. But a lot of people do. Take your emotions out of it and ask yourself who offers a more sane and necessary policy platform for the challenges that this nation faces. In fact, I challenge you to find one McCain policy position that is firmly grounded within reality.</p>

<p>Ya McCain even admitted he doesn't know much about how to run the economy. And Clinton made only face-value policies as well, such as the gas tax holiday...which is a joke. Then Obama got attacked by blue-collar voters for recognizing that the plan wouldn't work and deciding not to endorse it.</p>

<p>lol I just learned that McCain graduated from the Naval Academy ranked 894 out of 899 students haha</p>

<p>^The gas tax holiday may have been a joke, but she certainly did not make ONLY face-value policies.</p>

<p>And I'm a huge Hillary supporter, but the fact of the matter is she lost. And so I'm voting for Obama now. I can't stand when Hillary supporters say they won't vote for Obama (which I have seen on this thread). You supported Hillary because her ideas and beliefs were in line with your own. Well, Obama's ideas and beliefs are almost identical to Hillary's (certainly much more so than McCain's or any other candidate's), so it makes sense that you should vote for Obama. Don't let your resentment of his win give McCain a leg up in November. America doesn't deserve that.</p>

<p>Well said.</p>

<p>Towards Zero</p>

<p>The title comes from an Agatha Christie mystery novel. The clever plot has a well-known and respected figure committing a murder. But the insidiousness of his scheme is that it is not the actual murder victim who is the real target of this plan, it is his ex-wife, whom he wants to frame for the murder. So he leaves some obvious clues to point to her, then pretends to gallantly find the flaw in the clues, thus exonerating his ex-wife…until he seemingly admits something that he didn’t realize was important, thus making her the apparent culprit once again. And until the ever-brilliant and subtle Hercule Poirot figures it all out, it looks very much as if she will be arrested, tried and convicted of the murder.</p>

<p>Poirot senses that somehow things are too neatly arranged, that something more complex is going on. He and the police are being inexorably led to a certain outcome….towards zero….but it doesn’t feel right, it feels like something more sinister is being stage-managed from the wings. Poirot is ultimately more intelligent than the killer, and so justice triumphs. But Poirot of course was a fictional creation. In the real world, we can only wish we had someone as smart, as logical and as honorable as the Belgian detective. Because we are heading toward a seemingly inexorable outcome–the nomination of Barack Obama–that is every bit as wrong, as insidiously managed and as filled with misdirection as Christie’s clever mystery.</p>

<p>I will maintain that the real goal of this entire election campaign has been the removal from the political arena of Hillary Clinton, and to a lesser extent, Bill Clinton. The actual people in charge of the plot may never be known, or it may be that they are a loose and informal coalition of people whose interests happened to coincide. They include powerful Republicans, big-money people, radical Democrats, those who control the American media. Each of these groups has its own reasons for wanting to destroy the power of Hillary Clinton. But their end goal is the same, and Barack Obama was simply the useful tool to accomplish it.</p>

<p>Let’s go back to the beginning of this campaign. Obama, a mostly unknown political figure, had immense amounts of money to spend. This wasn’t coming from $25 donations from the grassroots, as the shadowy manipulators would have you believe. It was coming from big money sources. Exactly who will never be known. George Soros, certainly. Penny Pritzker and her consortium. Possible foreign sources tapped by either of the former or their associates. And it is almost certain that some of this money came from Republicans who thought that Obama was the best bet to eliminate Hillary Clinton. Obama could be sold to the Democratic Left, since as a Black man, he fit the wish-template of many of its members. And he could be marketed as someone new, someone who transcended “the battles of the ’90’s,’ not coincidentally those that the Republicans had lost.</p>

<p>The exact motivations for all of this are pretty easy to intuit, even if they are somewhat amorphous. Behavior, as Freud said, is overdetermined; there are more motivations for an action than are actually needed for someone to perform it. Republicans certainly hated Bill Clinton, and by extension, Hillary. Some of this comes from their sense that they epitomized the “excesses of the ’60’s” (how strange that Obama should have that phrase so readily available), with their anti-war demonstrations, long hair and the like. Most of it came from the reality that the Clintons beat them at every turn. BIll Clinton not only won two terms, but he left the White House with the Democratic brand restored, and with a very good chance that the Democrats were poised to win another two terms. The Clintons are anathema to the Republican power elite. They have beaten every other candidate the Democrats have put up since 1968, except for Jimmy Carter, who barely squeaked in because of the Watergate disgrace, and even so was useful to the the GOP as a whipping boy for the next two decades. The Republicans always feared that Hillary could beat their candidate this time, so they poured money into trying to knock her out. They figured they could beat anyone else, once they got rid of her.</p>

<p>And the big money boys and girls had even more reasons to want to stop Hillary. They feared the fact that she was the one truly Progressive Democrat in the race; the candidate of the working people, the one who was willing to attack the oil companies and the big pharmaceuticals. She was the person who vowed to bring national health care to this country. She would protect the American consumer, the American worker and the American dollar. The big money boys and girls don’t want that. They want wages low, oligopolies left alone to raise prices and profits, to put out flawed drugs, dangerous toys, environment-destroying automobiles. They are seeing capitalism begin to destroy the lifeblood of this country, but they are still getting incredibly wealthy, and there are other places to live. There is still money to be made, and they need a President who will let them make it. So they had to get rid of Hillary Clinton. Edwards blathered on about two Americas, but he was mostly show, and he couldn’t get elected. Hillary could and would. So they gave Obama immense sums of money to help him knock her out. They could live with Obama as President, as he will do what the corporations want him to do. Because of his race, the Left was easily seduced into thinking that he was some kind of New Progressive, when the truth was that all his economic advisors came from the ultra-conservative, free market-oriented Chicago School of Economics. So they were safe with him.</p>

<p>The Left somehow thought that Hillary and even Bill were their enemies. They didn’t like “triangulation,” welfare reform, more police on the streets, the efforts made to mute the theretofore successful GOP lines of attack. They wanted ideological purity, and kept looking for the oddest people whom they delusionally thought would provide it: Jerry Brown, Ralph Nader, Howard Dean. Obama is the latest version of left-wing wishful syndrome, accentuated in his case because he is Black. The Left always yearned for a Black candidate, to somehow expiate their own self-imposed racial guilt and sense of White moral inferiority. So they were easy dupes for the plot; and some of the wealthier members gave large sums of money to Obama. In turn, many of the disaffected young people were easy to convince that Obama represented something new and fresh, never before seen in American politics. Obama was the messiah, or akin to it; someone who transcends race, politics, ideology, partisanship. The people who were behind Obama’s campaign, which was really the campaign to get rid of Hillary Clinton, did not harbor such illusions, but they were useful as tools to bring large groups of young people into the fold. And of course the media, some of which are still angry at Hillary for having fired their friends in the White House Travel Office back in 1992; others of whom were jealous of Bill, or who resented Hillary not being the kind of buddy to the press that George Bush was, were eager to show their power and pile on. And in so doing, they were accomplishing the aims of their corporate bosses, who could not afford Hillary being elected. If the working media convinced themselves that Obama was something special, or that it would be refreshing to get rid of the Clintons, so much the better for the ultimate goal.</p>

<p>The rest of the plot has played out as it was drawn up. The Democratic Party elders were also happy to have a chance to defeat Hillary; for their own self-aggrandizement goals, and because they thought they could much better control Obama. And of course there were those in the Party who also felt morally enhanced by being able to say that they were supporting a Black person for President. So the nomination rules and procedures all favored Obama. Interestingly, once we got to March, when the media and the Party bigshots were all essentially saying that Obama had won, and that Hillary should leave the race, much of the Obama money seemed to disappear. His fundraising past March has substantially fallen off. It seems to be getting worse every month. Is that because Hillary has been eliminated, and now the corporate forces don’t care which of the two candidates gets elected? Is it because the Republicans who sent money, and who also made sure that enough of them crossed over in smaller states and caucuses, where they could make a a major delegate difference in favor of Obama, have seen their plans reach fruition, and now don’t have any more interest in helping Obama?</p>

<p>It may even be that some of the most powerful right-wing Republicans would just as soon have Obama win, so that they can get rid of semi-maverick McCain, and “purify” their own Party. They figure that Obama would only last a term, and that they could easily vilify him and the Democrats so as to once again make Republicans the majority Party for years. In 2012, they can come back with Jeb Bush, or Newt Gingrich, or another ideological true believer, who will continue the Bush policies, and further bankrupt the working class. Some Republicans are actually frightened of an Obama presidency, so will support McCain. Some of them are actually having recriminations for having helped Obama at the outset. But the real corporatists, the real Machiavellian forces, are now very near to accomplishing the end of their plans. It is a little more than a month until zero hour, when Hillary Clinton is to be denied the nomination of her Party, and to probably be relegated to never being able to become President. If Obama is elected, she cannot reasonably be the nominee until 2016, when she will be 68. Rest assured that Obama will do everything he can to marginalize her, and render her as politically impotent as possible. He will thus be accomplishing the work of those who plucked him out of obscurity and set him up to be the Clinton killer, to do that which all the Republican money and media could not do in so many years. They have waited a long time for this, and we are heading towards zero. The economy is falling apart, inflation is rising, wages are stagnant. The stock market is plummeting, banks are going under, the dollar is dropping every day. But the one person who could possibly fix this; save the dollar, help the desperate working class, limit the corporate stranglehold on this country, is about to be eliminated from the picture, as surely as one of Agatha Christie’s fictional murder victims.</p>

<p>But almost amazingly, it is still not too late. There is absolutely an opportunity for Hillary Clinton to be nominated for President by the Democrats. And if nominated, she will almost surely be elected. All that would have to happen is for the superdelegates to do their job, and vote for the person who not only has the better chance of winning, but who has the far better chance of saving the country. Do that many superdelegates actually think that Obama has a better idea of how to lead the nation than Hillary, aided by Bill? Do they really look forward to the chaos which will ensue if Obama comes in with his additional deficit ballooning stimulus packages, his doubling of the capital gains tax, his plans to divert billions in funds to improving third-world nations? Do they really want to see how he deals with the many foreign threats; how he manages to overcome his obvious intellectual laziness and self-indulgence to spend the 18-hour days which would be necessary to work on the country’s many problems? Weren’t the superdelegates inserted into the nominating process to make such crucial decisions? If the superdelegates simply gave their vote to the candidate who got more popular votes, Hillary would be nominated. If they simply voted for the person who won their state’s primary, she would easily win the nomination. The only purported rationale that they could give for casting votes for Obama would be that he won more pledged delegates. But that is only because of undemocratic and illegally run caucuses. And even if one willfully ignores that truth, the idea that superdelegates are there to rubberstamp the pledged delegate count is utterly inane. Why would they be there if all they were supposed to do was to reiterate the pledged delegate count? Why would there be 800 or so of them, supposed to cast their nomination ballot in secret, if their duty was simply to see who got more pledged delegates, and vote for that person? Is this just some ego-trip for 800 people, getting to act important, but with no free will to decide? That is hardly what was intended. It is clear that the superdelegates were specifically put into the process to act as a possible counterweight to the primaries and caucuses, to only be significant in a close race when one candidate could not accumulate enough pledged delegates to render the superdelegate votes meaningless. They are the ones who are supposed to make their presence and insight felt in just such a situation as this one. The people who keep trumpeting that they “must not overturn the will of the voters” (note, not the popular vote, just the caucus outcomes), are being propagandists for their own side, the anti-Hillary side. The superdelegates can and should fix this injustice, this incipient nightmare. And they have the time and the opportunity to do so–but that time is rapidly running out.</p>

<p>In a little more than a month, the final gavel will sound. The plot–developed over time, and carefully planned–was the figurative political murder of Hillary Clinton. That is what this entire campaign has really been about, despite the misdirection. In both Parties’ debates it seemed as if every single other candidate was running against Hillary, instead of for something, including the needs of the country. Does anyone ever remember such an outcry for a candidate–particularly one who had won so many primaries–to get out of the race? That was the cry after the first Iowa caucus, back in January; and it has never stopped, no matter how well she did, no matter how much competence and skill she has demonstrated. “Hillary must be destroyed,” the incessant call, coming from so many quarters; far too coincidental to be just individual reactions. “Why won’t she leave?,” as if there were some overwhelming need to have one less candidate in the race, a race which is by rule and history supposed to only end at the convention. Even now, unceasing efforts are being made to force Hillary to bargain herself out, in exchange for money, a chance to speak, political sanctuary. Why is there such a desperate need to absolutely guarantee that she cannot be President?</p>

<p>Hercule Poirot would figure all of this out; would realize that this is not really about Obama, and what he might become; not about whether or not McCain can be elected. It is about the villainous plot to pull down the final curtain on Hillary Clinton’s bid to ever become President of the United States. That is and has been the ultimate goal of this entire stage-managed election process. When and if the final gavel sounds in Denver, and if Obama is the nominee, the plot will have succeeded. After that, it won’t much matter to the plotters whether Obama is elected, or McCain. The intended victim all along has been Clinton. The final evil act in this plot has not yet been committed, but we are rapidly heading towards zero. </p>

<p>My final post on this topic.</p>

<p>Care to attribute your source, Soccer Guy? </p>

<p>You very obviously didn't write all that.</p>

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[quote]

And the big money boys and girls had even more reasons to want to stop Hillary. They feared the fact that she was the one truly Progressive Democrat in the race; the candidate of the working people, the one who was willing to attack the oil companies and the big pharmaceuticals. She was the person who vowed to bring national health care to this country. She would protect the American consumer, the American worker and the American dollar. The big money boys and girls don’t want that. They want wages low, oligopolies left alone to raise prices and profits, to put out flawed drugs, dangerous toys, environment-destroying automobiles. They are seeing capitalism begin to destroy the lifeblood of this country, but they are still getting incredibly wealthy, and there are other places to live. There is still money to be made, and they need a President who will let them make it. So they had to get rid of Hillary Clinton. Edwards blathered on about two Americas, but he was mostly show, and he couldn’t get elected. Hillary could and would. So they gave Obama immense sums of money to help him knock her out. They could live with Obama as President, as he will do what the corporations want him to do. Because of his race, the Left was easily seduced into thinking that he was some kind of New Progressive, when the truth was that all his economic advisors came from the ultra-conservative, free market-oriented Chicago School of Economics. So they were safe with him.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>What a crock of horse ****.</p>

<p>These are the economists advising Obama:</p>

<p>Economists</a> for Obama: The List: Obama's Economists</p>

<p>Among these, Furman, Bersnstein, Reich, Summer, Cutler, and the Romers are supporting policy stances well to the left of the anything we saw during the Clinton administration. There is nothing Chicago School about them.</p>

<p>cayuga: is me supporting ron paul's political thought ok? surely voting for ron paul in november will be a cry to have obama or mccain (whoever wins) consider the wisdom of dr.no?</p>

<p>It's a free country. Of course it's okay.</p>

<p>But that doesn't mean I don't think a lot of Ron Paul's stances on foreign and social policy are insane.</p>