<p>I have been accepted into William and Mary, the education there and networking prosepcts in Virginia and washigton DC are hard to pass up however total debt including cost of living would be 126k. On the other hand I have had full ride offers from mid ranked schools such as university of Mississippi and university of wyoming. Both are good schools but not nationally recognized and I don't plan to practice law in either state long term. I want to pursue government employment/public interest/private practice (low paying) but I am open to new fields I might yet discover. Debt vs no debt, I need all the opinions!! Especially those who have graduated and are paying loans back!! Thank you;)</p>
<p>S</p>
<p>Where do you want to live? What are your GPA/LSAT?</p>
<p>retake. Period.</p>
<p>I want to end up in California at some point, but gain work experience out of state. I have a 3.8 and 158. Blue bayou- not sure what you mean.</p>
<p>Have you looked at the stats for lawyers these days? The chances for employment? The average pay for those who do find work? Grim, given the money it costs to get a law degree. Very grim. They really never were all that great, but now it’s at a point that they are not being ignored except by those like the likes of you. </p>
<p>If you don’t get into a top law school, or be at the very top of your class at a law school, your chances of finding a job in law are very small, and the pay lousy. If you come from the area, know people, get to know people, take advantage of those connection , you can beat those odds, but getting a degree from a school not on the TOP whatever list and then going to CA is not a very good plan. The likely returns on that are very small.</p>
<p>My close friend’s DD is at a top firm in a major city. Got the job through prestigious clerkships that she got for being top of her class. Top of a law school class is not a given, very competitive, very difficult to achieve. Judges will often open up spots for the top kids at each law school locally, and that’s where she got her ins, which made her valuable at local firms. So she’s doing gangbusters great there and has a wonderful future, and is making loads of money. Except she want to move. She married a guy who doesn’t want to live there, whose opportunities are elsewhere, plus her parents are ailing, there is a family home, she’s tired of being away, wants to raise her child elsewhere. Two years later, not a job offer in sight. Zip. Her clerkships and whatever mean nothing in other venues. And she is at a top firm, making top dollar, on the partnership track and she can switch firms to nearly any major firm in that city. But when she talks transfering within some companies that have national offices, she’s shut down.</p>
<p>My neighbor is a top gun attorney who finally got NY as her locale from her firm with NY offices. She wryly tells me that she is probably the only one who took a major cut coming from her minor city to NYC. She’s tried for years to make this work. And she’s pedigreed to the nines. </p>
<p>So that’s what you are facing. </p>
<p>I don’t know beans about the rep of W &M Law school. I love the college. But where that would take, you, you had better scrutinize the employment, placement and salary stats. I don’t think it’s going to get you far very easily in California, I’ll venture to say.</p>
<p>A lot of people are saying that law school is really a lousy investment, and I agree, but I still beileve those who really have an interest in becoming a lawyer, not just thinking it’s good field, but really want to do this, and have put some research into this, can make it work. Even at a small local law school if they stay locally, as many areas do hire locally. But portability is not good at all except at the top firms. Don’t know where W&M stand in that list. </p>
<p>William and Mary is 24 on us new rank. Their students pipe line to DC and NYC however Wyoming has 85% of their graduates employed in a JD required job in 6mos. I know Cali job market is down, which is why I am going out of state for base experience. Average pay for public interest is around $60,000 depending on what part of the country you are in</p>
<p>an OOS degree from WY not transport anywhere but the mountain states.</p>
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<p>That includes baristas. The number of employed with legal jobs that require a JD is 67%.</p>
<p>PI jobs are extremely competitive. Prestige matters. A lot.</p>
<p>Of those that have jobs and reported back (44% of the class), the mean wage of a WY grad is $55k. The other 56% is unknown.</p>
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<p>California is a fairly insular market. If you want to break in, you’re going to need ties to the area (or an undergrad degree in CS/EE). Do you have those?</p>
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<p>3.8 is a great GPA. 158 is not a good LSAT. Luckily, while you can’t redo your GPA, you can retake the LSAT. You need to get that up to at least a 165 to start making law school a viable option. Right now, your choice of schools falls firmly into the “too expensive for too little employment” category. </p>
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<p>[William</a> & Mary](<a href=“http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/wm/]William”>http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/wm/) puts about 20% of the class into firms and 10% of the class into government/PI. That adds up to a 1/3 chance you will graduate with a job that can pay back what W&M charges you. Does that sound like a good bet to you?</p>
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<p>No they don’t. First, the timeline for reporting is at 9 months, not 6 months. Second, they are liars. [U</a>. Wis](<a href=“http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/wisconsin/]U”>http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/wisconsin/) puts 10% of the class into firms and about 17% of the class into government/PI. That’s about a 1/4 chance of graduating employed in a job that can pay back what U. Wis students pay to attend. Even worse odds than W&M. You should spend a good deal of time on LST looking through the employment figures of schools. Then you should retake the LSAT and hit 165 or better. Then you should come back so we can strategize a good law school plan.</p>
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<p>If you won’t (or can’t) increase you LSAT score significantly, you should not go to LS. </p>
<p>You may also want to take a close look at employment data for law schools you’re considering. For class of 2013 for William and Mary, there was a graduating class of 217. Of these, 19 ended up in New York state; even assuming that all went to NYC, having less than 9% of your class go to NYC hardly makes it a “pipeline”; a bigger red flag is the fact that the school employed 48 of its own graduates-so of the class of 217, it employed approximately one-quarter of the total of its graduates. There is absolutely no reason for this; it shows how awful job prospects for the average W&M law grad must be. These stats are supposed to be on every school’s website, and are easy to find on W&M’s.</p>
<p>This was not a debate about my LSAT. I am not retaking it as I am not interested in top 14 schools. The college is Wyoming not Wisconsin, I hope your numbers are from the correct school because your percenges do not match the ABA. I am aware of the average pay from WY graduates, since I pay nothing to go there, yes, that’s ok with me. I am a california native and did all undergrad there. I am really looking for more constructive opinions, not dismal personal opinions on law schools and the profession in general. I am not here to discuss whether or not you think I should go to law school. </p>
<p>I also have a full tuition offer from university of Mississippi</p>
<p>You said you wanted all opinions…but apparently you don’t. What is it that you do want?
And feel free to ignore all advice, but I would recommend that you check the ABA stats on where people practice coming out of law school-for both Wyoming and Mississippi it’s very heavily in-state or in contiguous states.</p>
<p>Going to U. of Mississippi would be a very serious mistake if you want to end up anywhere outside of Mississippi; I have a relative who went there. I can’t speak for U. of Wyoming. William and Mary has always been a good school, but it’s not a feeder to NYC; I’ve never met anyone in NYC who went to school there.</p>
<p>I’d go with William and Mary over the other two and would just hope that the legal job market picks up over the next three years.</p>
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<p>That’s because my numbers are accurate. Schools are quite good at messing with the numbers given to the ABA. For example, plenty of schools will hire their own graduates for just long enough to hit the 9month point, then get rid of them. The school also counts any job as “employed,” including working at Starbucks. The school looks like it has rosy employment when it really has anything but. If you want accurate numbers (or at least, as accurate as possible), use the resources I’ve linked you.</p>
<p>Wyoming is quite a bit worse than Wisconsin, so it’s a shame that’s your option. [url=<a href=“http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/wyoming/2013/]Wyoming[/url”>http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/wyoming/2013/]Wyoming[/url</a>] puts 2% into firms and 13% into government, making Wyoming a bet of 3/20 you graduate employed in a job that can pay what it costs to go to Wyoming. Even if you had a full ride and had someone to clothe, feed, and shelter you, you’d still be better off not going there based on the expected value measured against your opportunity costs. Given that you’re from CA it sounds like you don’t have anyone there to pay for your food and shelter, and cost of living adds up even in a place like Wyoming. That, and it boggles the mind that you think people from Wyoming are going to want to hire an undergrad whose resume screams California. </p>
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<p>Nah, you aren’t looking for constructive opinions, you’re looking for validation. You’ve had plenty of constructive opinions, defined as exploring your situation and helping you strategize your options. You just don’t like the fact that everyone thinks your choices are bad. That’s fine, you don’t have to listen. It’s your life. </p>
<p>Oh forget it, clearly you’ve all been burned, linked nothing useful and have no since of reality other then your own. I’m sorry your all so bitter and that I’ve wasted time here. I do not think my choices are bad, I’m quite happy with them, if everyone listened to people like you there would be no attorneys. Don’t think to tell me what I’m looking for, you have no idea who i am or what I’m looking for, you don’t even know if I want a JD required job. You have nothing better to do then look for ways to be bitter on the Internet. Clearly this website is NOT the place for well educated, constructive thoughts. </p>
<p>Thank you city ent. and cranky old man, those where more the types of answers I was looking for</p>