<p>-Well I’m bitter that it takes the police 15 minutes less to get to your neighborhood vs. the neighborhood of where I grew up.</p>
<p>-I’m bitter that bosses throw away resumes of potentially qualified candidates on the basis of their “black-sounding” name in favor of a white “Becky”.</p>
<p>-I’m bitter that my friends treated me like the token child when I was the only person in my school to be accepted into an Ivy +22 other top schools.</p>
<p>-I’m bitter that statistically speaking, online daters more frequently turn down the profiles of black people in comparison to Asian or White profiles because of the stereotypes Asians and Whites have towards “dangerous” black people–I don’t do online dating, but I read an article earlier this summer.</p>
<p>-I’m bitter that I have to change the the way I speak to earn some level of respect and to be taken seriously in professional settings.</p>
<p>-I’m bitter that the predominantly white government continues to allow project buildings (aka “the projects”) to be developed to maintain the never ending cycle of poverty in areas such as Philadelphia and Atlanta and Chicago (to name a few).</p>
<p>-I’m bitter that judges decide to throw the book at a black criminal but are all too willing to be lenient to white criminals.</p>
<p>-I’m bitter that people associate welfare with African Americans, when statistically rural (mountain) white families are on welfare more–think the mountains of Pennsylvania. And please refer to a 20/20 or Dateline clip from a while back–I’m too “bitter” to search for it myself.</p>
<p>So yea, we all have **** to be “bitter” about Money. Get over yourself—you’re going to Penn and your egotistical white “buddy” is going to Princeton.</p>
<p>I was waiting for this to explode. It never fails. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Money, what does ‘qualified’ mean? Don’t quote a dictionary source. The term is based on individual perception. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>If holistic admissions in elite college offices is a racist process, it would be because it works in favor of majority applicants, as it is fact that White students dominate elite college campuses, and then there are the Asians. That’s quite simply erroneous. Please, refrain from labeling the admissions process that has allowed you and a ~thousand+ of your White peers to gain admission into UPenn racist.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>That is your perception, which is arguably far from the truth.</p>
<p>I honestly laughed out loud at this. I go to the best public school in Western Canada, and it is predominantly made up of middle, upper-middle, and wealthy Asians and whites. Literally everyday, I hear something derogatory being directed at me for being one of the few highly intelligent black students at the school. It is an attempt to bring me down, because they know that my high scores coupled with URM status basically guarantees me admission to one top college in the USA.</p>
<p>I am sorry but Money the points that you are trying to make are far from sensible, and they paint the wrong picture about the type of person you are and the person you are going to be in college( especially at a place like Penn).</p>
In your case, I would say the people calling you “oreo” and such are perpetuating the social problems which you (I believe correctly) recognize as a culprit in the current national racial disparity; that is most certainly something that can be legitimately cited as racist. Regarding affirmative action though…affirmative action, I feel, is something that isn’t used to address the actual social problems and instead used to cover them up. As you yourself have elucidated, it is actually enforcing the social stigmas that strengthen the problem and so from the perspective of actually attacking the national racial disparity, affirmative action ain’t doing squat (besides bad stuff). But this isn’t the thread for that anyways.</p>
<p>I would however like to reiterate another point: I too am a “hooked” college applicant and will only say that I welcome anyone who wants to recognize me as the dumb jock who got in because he “throw real hard”. Because I feel secure in my own academic qualifications and it’s wonderful that you do too, and for any other hooked applicant, may this serve as a reminder that all that clamoring from students around you is meaningless and that you are the most likely to know what you deserve and where you belong. Then again, the whole reason why I sympathize with the person of this thread is that the Columbia girl was a little full of herself and the fact that the “affirmative action” thing bit so hard probably has more to do with a reality check on her self-esteem than anything else.</p>
<p>IMHO, Affirmative Action is imperfect, questionable and doesn’t do a good enough job in spotting potential amongst, specifically, first generation minorities. It was installed to correct centuries of institutional and de jure racism (which the effects of said racism are still very much alive and present in today’s society - to deny that implies cluelessness on behalf of the beholder). I, however, believe that until there is a more efficient way of ensuring equal educational opportunities to all American children, regardless of race, socioeconomic race, gender, exc., Affirmative Action is doing more good than harm in scooping up impoverished/inner-city minorities who, given the chance to attend an elite college, would thrive. It’s now a safety net against de facto racism. However, that is an ideal perception and does not compensate for the reality of those minorities who bank off of AA; minorities who are privileged and given the psyche of success, along with the financial room to pursue it endowed by their family history. This all stems from my support for Socioeconomic AA. Then again, my personal perception also doesn’t compensate for those minorities who come from privileged backgrounds and attend prep schools where they unabashedly face discrimination and racism in the classroom, which can play a huge role in class performance and may implant a negative connotation on how successful they can actually be in the real world. In short, minorities, specifically Latinos and Blacks, are going to face some form of discrimination because of their skin color, regardless of their socioeconomic background, religion, gender, exc. Is that a good enough reason for AA to be in practice at the will of the admissions offices at elite universities? That is disputable, and certainly beyond our control as they are private institutions. I do agree with monstor that it does seem like a facade. But what alternatives do you suggest in attacking national racial disparities? </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Valid. But since none of us were actually there at the scene, it’s also valid to insinuate that the girl was being “full of herself” as a defense mechanism; in a sense, to substantiate her acceptance in a room full of students who didn’t even read through her application in its entirety.</p>
<p>^Monster, I was (kind of) with you, until the last little bit. I’m not comfortable labeling the Columbia girl as being “full of herself” and boasting her self-esteem around her classmates. We weren’t there and can only rely on the (more than likely) hyperbolized tale that Money has given us to envision a halo light and understanding in why his friend’s actions can be justified. Because if the girl was as snobbish as Money gradually developed her throughout the thread, why wasn’t this behavior shared in the first post? (And praising one’s own essay is by no means being full of one self.)</p>
<p>-Money4Life, I’m sure that girl was bitter that your friend (and to an extent–you) dismissed her accomplishments for AA–basically chewed and chewed on your own bitterness toward her until one day you couldn’t chew any further–the viciously evil gag reflex of your suppressed racial bitterness toward her revealed the ugly and nasty truth.</p>
<ol>
<li>Qualified means having superior stats, more EC’s with leadership positions, and more awards that all exist in harmony. To be honest, I have trouble arguing with all you people because everyone who is arguing against me is AN UNDERREPRESENTED MINORITY! Bias much? I am sorry if you had unusually low stats and got into these top schools and need to argue that you had some magic quality that makes you just as deserving as that white kid with perfect scores. However, if you have an sat below a 2000, I would bet alot of money that you would have been rejected from the ivy you got into if you said you were white. </li>
</ol>
<p>Are you kidding me? The admissions process zealously makes it so that URMs have it waaay easier getting into top schools REGARDLESS of their income/upbringing. Meaning that that poor white kid in NJ doesn’t get the benefits that a wealthy hispanic in CA gets in the admissions process. That is, in my opinion, racist.</p>
<p>Btw, it is also nosike’s “perception” that kids only make fun of blacks for doing well in school. So, my observations regarding treatment of blacks in upperclass society are no more true than nosike’s observations. Both are highly anecdotal. </p>
<p>Nosike says he was treated wrong because kids thought that he would be wrongfully given admissions benefits despite his upper-middle class lifestyle. So, again, AA fosters racism. </p>
<p>Finally, I am certain I will do just fine representing Penn’s M&T program. I got a perfect score on my SAT (did all of you guys arguing me get that too?!?!) in addition to acceptances from Yale and Stanford despite my white, christian, conservative background.</p>
<p>The fact is ALL minorities espescially black people are discriminated against, and thus AA is warranted. It’s unfortunate you don’t get that benefit. Just like it’s unfortunate that everytime I get a perfect grade, someone takes a shot at my racial identity for it.</p>
<p>It isn’t so much about wealth as it is about racial discrimination (hence making your mexican rich kid vs. white poor kid irrelevant). White people don’t get discriminated against for their colour.</p>
<p>I didn’t mention the essay stuff in my first post because it didn’t relate to the question I was asking in this thread. As I don’t think Princeton would ever had heard this girl was bragging about her essays. However, when people started bashing my friend, I told me information to indicate why he was so upset with the girl.</p>
<p>Haha of course! She is bitter because he attacked her poor stats. I am sure she will get over it as she, in my opinion, wrongfully attends Columbia this fall. Oh, and guess what, when grad school admissions come around, she will be able to play the race card in admissions again. My bitterness and my friend’s bitterness are both justified here. I am all for socioeconomic based affirmative action. However, instead, we just blindly give all URMs admissions preferences, which is simply insane.</p>
<p>Arent asians minorities too? Where are their affirmative action benefits? Oh, thats right…they have good averages on the SAT as a whole and thus don’t get any.</p>
<p>Moreover, you haven’t proven all minorities are discriminated against for academics. You just shared anecdotal evidence that doesnt prove anything any more than my contrary observations prove. Btw, you didn’t address my point regarding your “abuse” in school. You conceded that your harassment was a result of AA. Hence, AA generates some (I would argue most) racism against minorities in upper/middle class society.</p>
<p>Oh, okay. Just making sure that you didn’t understand the basis of a holistic admissions process, and that you adamantly believe that students who don’t abide by your grocery list of qualifications and attend elite schools aren’t qualified enough to not only do the work, but perhaps outperform their peers while doing so. Check.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Well, I can only speak for myself. I am a Black male from an impoverished community and I am biased, but with reason, as I’ve clearly pointed out and acknowledged the flaws of Affirmative Action. The only thing holding me back in my application was my SAT I score. Everything else was flawless. So before you toot your standardized test score at me, or any other minority poster, learn the facts of their backgrounds and their applications, which clearly applies to this Columbia girl as well. You’ve also failed to comment on the “hookless” students I’ve encountered at Princeton and Stanford. When you go to UPenn, don’t be disgusted to find a few of your White classmates who, in fact, patronize AA, considering the number of minorities that will be attending this Fall. And I advise you not to go around calling them AA admits either, as I’m sure there are some of them who have SAT scores below 2000 and I don’t doubt their potential to outperform you at Penn’s M&T Program. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Well then, Congratulations on your acceptances. I’m glad you didn’t come to Stanford. You’ll have way more fun with the minorities at Penn anyway.</p>
<p>If AA helps anyone, it would be White applicants, as they’re the most represented group at all of the elite schools. If AA hurts anyone, it would be Asian applicants. Take a look at Berkeley.</p>
<p>Haha believe me, I kind of like the idea of AA at Penn where classes are graded on a curve. I am just as confident in my ability to crush AA-admits as you appear to be in their ability to beat me academically. Tho, the AA kids with lower stats than me already lost to me in their ability to take a basic intelligence test. </p>
<p>I didn’t comment on your kids because you told me nothing more than their race and their test scores. There are few other hooks that could have pushed them in…</p>
<p>Justadream, I read about your background and saw your resume. I have a deep respect for how you have overcome adversity. However, I simply don’t believe you would have gotten into Stanford if you didn’t put African American in that race box. Schools seem a little more indifferent to white students who have to endure similar situations. Admittedly, I have seen a few kids get into Harvard with like a 2100 on their SAT who were white and raised in poor backgrounds…however Questbridge is a HUGE hook to have when you apply to these schools. An SAT score <1900 is usually /autoreject.</p>
<p>White applicants make up the largest segment of the population…they should be the most represented at these schools. Not to mention that a bunch of WASPs founded these schools. </p>
<p>Asians do get screwed. My heart breaks for them just as they do for your highly qualified white applicants who were rejected when low scoring hooked applicants get in.</p>
<p>Money, you don’t seem to be grasping what the word “holistic” means. I don’t see anywhere on the admissions websites at any of the Ivies/Stanford, MIT, exc. that places emphasis on specific SAT score glass ceilings for any type of applicant. If that’s so, by God, please provide the source, because it clearly went over my head.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>So since when was the SAT/ACT an intelligence test? And how does that score alone measure how someone will perform in college? It’s simply erroneous to base someone’s potential off of a test score and not the rigor of their courseload, GPA, standardized academic tests that measure grasps on content and the intrinsic motivational drive of the individual to succeed in a classroom setting. </p>
<p>For your information, I didn’t check the Black box. My admissions counselors at both Princeton and Stanford both called my house and conducted impersonal interviews with me (weird, I know). I’m guessing Brown, Georgetown, Cornell, Johns Hopkins, Tufts, Northwestern and Williams guessed I was Black because of my name. Nonetheless, I gained my acceptances because I proved to them via my incomparable and unique extracurriculars (some of which I’ve founded and are actually producing feasible results that are shifting my neighborhood in a positive direction) essays, rank, prestigious national recognition/awards, course rigor, recs and other extremely important facets of my application that I was going to be an asset to their campus as an activist, a student, a researcher, a leader; and that I was going to maximize my potential given the chance to pursue their curriculums. If they didn’t see competence or hope in me, they would’ve rejected me in exchange for the Black machine that did not gain acceptance, just like any other applicant. </p>
<p>I’ll reiterate.
</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Because they represent the majority of the population? That doesn’t measure up to your theory of qualifications, as they should’ve simply admitted just the Asian applicants who are superiorly “qualified,” by your definition, relative to the White applicants, and overrepresented on college campuses. They were founded by WASPs, built by the hands of slaves.</p>
<p>Alritey, well first of all, I already discussed qualified in terms of EC’s and stats. So, you must be refering to background. I addressed this already. I don’t see colleges giving big benefits to poor whites/asians whereas they give huge benefits to URMs regardless of poverty level.</p>
<p>The SAT is essentially an IQ test. It tests your vocab (highly correlated with IQ), your reading comprehension, and ability to use basic math principles in often nebulous ways. The writing section is a little less IQ assessing, but that was just recently added by the SAT. But i am interested here, if the SAT doesnt assess your IQ or ability to do well in college, why do all these schools require it be sent to them?</p>
<p>The schools knew you were black. Plus, the fact that admissions counselors called it indicates they were not gonna treat you like the standard applicant.</p>
<p>Ok, first of all, I bet that val from your school had done something significant or was involved in sports/band for the school. The black girl got into Harvard, if she was white that admission would have been less than a sure thing. Now it is totally possible that girl would have gotten into Harvard if she was white (assuming her ECs were still good), but being black made a HYPS acceptance inevitable. I also find it very interesting you found all these alleged people at admitted students days as I found NO unhooked people with SAT scores below 2100 at my admitted student days. Though you again didn’t give me anything more to work with on those applicants because you just gave me their race and their scores.</p>
<p>I am telling you that the white population has more people to do well in school than the asian population does. For example, say that you have 100 people in a room with 90 people are white and 10 people are asian. Say 8/10 asians are qualified for HYPS. Probability would say that over 8/90 whites will be qualified for HYPS too simply because there are more whites in the room. This example isnt perfect but it conveys the point I was trying to make.</p>
<p>Haha, of couse, it all comes back to slavery.</p>
<p>Another point btw. Colleges now deem people from Spain to be URMs. Hmm isnt that a little curious as Spain was leading the charge against minority populations in Africa. They (to the best of my knowledge) have faced no discrimination in the United States. Moreover, I see no valid reason to toss them benefits in one’s application. So why do they do it? I believe the answer is that they simply want to make it look like they have an even more diverse campus. I also think it underscores the idea that colleges really don’t care that much about the applicants they admit. Instead, URMs are just another hooked applicant that will give them another number they can count toward their little affirmative action quasi-quotas.</p>