What happened to all the cheerleading to make UChicago like an ivy?
@HydeSnark Total Non sequitur. You do realize that there are eight schools in the Ivy league right?
And btw, I have never wanted Chicago to “be like an Ivy”. I would like Chicago’s brand to be as strong as the Ivy brand and for kids who typically apply to the Ivies to also consider Chicago seriously. That is actually the opposite of wanting Chicago applicants to consider applying to the Ivies
You literally linked an article called “Going to an Ivy League School Sucks”
It doesn’t happen here because people here care more about learning that competition. If the culture changed so that people cared more about competition than learning, it could happen here.
Yes, it could. Suicide is one of the top 3 causes of death in this age group (pretty much tied with homicide in the US). And on university campuses, it can come in waves. I think both GW and Penn have experienced this in the past few years. It’s really important for campuses to provide good mental health care that is immediately available to kids in crisis. And for students to have the time to relax, hang out with friends, get enough sleep, and generally take care of themselves and each other. There was a recent protest over workload at Harvey Mudd where this point was made quite poignantly. See, e.g. https://mobile.twitter.com/undefined/status/846492098572406784/photo/2
Chicago was always different. The ivys always emanated “power”. Chicago always emanated deep intellectual thought. While it’s become more selective in recent years, I doubt that the faculty are inclined to make their courses or grading any easier for the prestige hounds who have discovered Chicago. If one is there for the prestige, power or grades rather than the education, one can easily be overwhelmed. I don’t recommend going there with the “achievement” attitude. Go there for the life of the mind and prepare to be challenged to your capacity. If that’s not for you, neither is Chicago.
The pictures and brief sketches of these Columbia kids are heartbreaking. So many things seem overwhelming at just this moment in a life. I dare say many of us older posters have experienced some version of it and come through - or know others who did not. One year I had an apartment mate who was manic- depressive and near suicidal much of the time (had actually made a feeble attempt over the Christmas holidays). While it can indeed happen anywhere my own thought about it (though hopelessly out of touch with today’s undergrads) is a somewhat counterintuitive one - that the kids who get in to these top schools (pre-eminently but not exclusively the Ivies and near Ivies) are not suffiently prepared to suffer and endure the true rigors of student life. These come in many forms - not exclusively the academic ones but the difficult business of achieving self-definition, the inevitable romantic rumblings and reversals. Good mental health assistance is desirable certainly, but I also suggest that kids need (from parents, advisers and perhaps in the publicity materials of the University itself) to know when they go off to these schools that some level of failure and dissatisfaction is to be expected. It is baked into the cake of of the human condition. Getting in to an elite school lets no one off that hook. In some of my own bad patches in days of yore I found it oddly cheering to remember this. I sometimes mumbled to myself that poem by Gerard Manley Hopkins, addressed to a sad young woman named Margaret: “It is the blight man was born for, / It is Margaret you mourn for.” --That was my trick for keeping the Black Dog at bay, there are many others.
To me, the key cultural difference with UChicago is the acknowledgement that it’s supposed to be hard. If it isn’t, you’re not doing it right. And everybody struggles, visibly and quite audibly. So kids are less likely to think “everybody else is doing really well, but I’m a failure.”
That said, I really don’t think any school is immune. These pressures/expectations/standards/mentalities/ coping mechanisms (or lack thereof) are in place long before students arrive at U of C.
((As an aside, for me the payoff of the “it’s supposed to be hard” mindset has been that I came out of college* thinking I’d never be bored. And 35 years later, I still feel that way. So many interesting and complex things to think about and try to figure out. And I know where to find them and how to go about it. That’s what college gave me.))
*not U of C in my case
I wonder how much is also the location of Columbia in New York City. There was some discussion in one of the articles about how that adds to the stress.
A high-pressure environment may help trigger negative outcomes if the young person begins to suffer from, say, schizophrenia (unfortunately that tends to hit right around the college years) or is dealing with cultural influences that link high achievement to the family’s honor. Those are things that the student may bring to campus and are triggered by the academic rigor and competitiveness of a top program.
Very unfortunately, the college years are also a time of drug experimentation and abuse. That could be one completely new factor in a person’s life (unforeseen by parents and known but perhaps not acted on by classmates and friends) that turns an otherwise “normal” individual (in terms of mental health) into someone who struggles with thoughts of suicide. Unfortunately with many OD situations it’s not clear whether it’s a suicide attempt or an accident (could be a bit of both, of course).
Three years ago a young undergrad. (male) died in I-House as a result of accidental alcohol poisoning. His body wasn’t even found for several days. No one reported him missing and it wasn’t even clear from the news stories that his family had been concerned that they couldn’t get in touch with him. The entire story just seemed a bit odd and while no foul play was likely, there might have been more to the story that, for reasons of privacy or compassion, weren’t disclosed. In any case, there is no doubt that the administration won’t want that to happen again! However, it did happen and, while an isolated incident, there was the typical “not surprised that happened at U of C” kind of response - due, in large part, to the long-term image of the university as a brutal environment for undergrads.
While that image will hopefully continue to be a distant memory (or leave the memory banks altogether), and despite the active and community-enhancing advantages of the house system, many students at UChicago can be “loners” due to intense study habits and/or personality. The overwhelming majority of those personality types like it that way, of course. The risk is that it can be a dangerous decision and those who are trying to respect your privacy may not be tuned in to changes or struggles should they come up. Humans are meant for community, whether we like it or not, and living in community can be a life saver on occasion. Hopefully the College recognizes the risks involved given its intense academic atmosphere, the type of personalities that tend to show up on campus, the diverse number of cultures (enriching to the environment but sometimes unfamiliar to westerners) and the age group.
It would be pure hubris on the part of the administration or the College community in general to assume that waves of suicide and OD couldn’t happen at UChicago.
BTW, about that Ivy-leaguer who hates Columbia - well, young Zachary seems to have a bad attitude. Take this quote, for instance:
“My third night at Columbia, I found some kids to smoke with. Maybe they’ll be cool, I thought. I rolled a blunt, which none of them had ever smoked before. As I took the first inhale, someone said, “OK, so as we smoke weed… go around the circle and say whether or not you believe in God, and why.” They all got into it and started arguing, and I just shook my head. Why can’t you guys ***ing do anything naturally?”
This, after complaining how shallow and stupid his classmates were! Sorry Zach, but if you can’t appreciate a good, pot-induced metaphysical debate, then perhaps YOU shouldn’t be at Columbia. Not that MOI did anything like that in college (in CA during the early '80’s lol).
There was a suicide last year in South of a young man who, by all accounts, was very outgoing and had lots of friends. It’s not (just/essentially) a loner thing.
Good point, @exacademic. In fact, just ran across this interesting article about how community may influence clusters of suicide. So community alone isn’t the answer and it’s a very complex problem. What happens in the human mind can be a total mystery. We’ve learned that from experiencing teen suicide among my kids’ acquaintances and in their schools. A tragic and devastating mystery.
https://news.uchicago.edu/article/2016/09/09/community-matters-suicide-prevention-study-finds
However, there are definitely steps that a college can take to minimize this tragedy and hopefully UChicago is doing just that. Unfortunately, at least in the “olden days”, the university seemed to intellectualize the problem. (the famous example, of course, being Gary Becker’s economics of suicide after his first wife killed herself). The academics should, of course, study the issue. But many in the administration are, at heart, academics and are, at heart, intellectual. This is a potential weak spot.
As a parent (not only a parent but one who had a student in I-House when it occurred) I remember well the alcohol poisoning case. That death was horrible in many ways. The death that haunts me, though, was the young UChicago student who liked to go out in storms, got too close to Lake Michigan one stormy evening, and was apparently washed into the water and was unable to get back out. I remember this young man’s dad scouring Hyde Park posting pictures of his son in businesses, giving interviews to anyone who could / would spread the word, hoping against hope that someone would find his son. This father was so brave and I remember doubting that I could have handled the search for, and the eventual confirmed death of his son as well as he did.
By a long shot this tragic death was not a suicide. It came to light during the days and weeks of the disappearance, search for, recovery, and grieving over this young man that he was a sterling character: brilliant, curious, engaged, loaded with people who cared about him–thriving in every way.
This tragedy and the others described in this thread and elsewhere remind us that a death of one of these extraordinary students is heartbreaking to us all, permanently scarring the hearts of those they loved and who loved them, and that we need to do everything we can to prevent these tragic deaths from happening.
Can someone comment on the availability of counseling and ministerial assistance on the campus? Are kids told to wait weeks to get assistance, as in the awful Columbia account? What does the administration do to reduce the risks of drugs and alcohol on campus? Is there anything that can really be done?
There is a pretty active outreach for certain faith groups which are on campus (Mormons and Catholics come to mind, orthodox Jews as well (still?)). There much be others, esp. given the large number of congregations in the Hyde Park area. Here’s the webpage for that: http://spirit.uchicago.edu/about-us/staff-religious-advisors
Not sure about mental/emotional health counseling, nor about Disability Services (or equivalent, which would cover things like accomodations for ASD, etc.) so hopefully someone with experience on that can weigh in.