<p>Ok, so my counselor of 3 years retired this year. Now, I will get a new counselor, whom, I'm sure, doesn't even know me or anything about me. I think my counselor wrote a bunch of notes about each of his students on a computer database, so at least the new counselor will have something to go by. MY question: do apps ask the counselor how long they've known the student ? Bec. then it will look weird, like it will say "3 months". I'm kind of worried what exactly this new counselor will have to say about me, seeing as how we will have known each other for a short amount of time. Anyone ever gone/going through this experience, or does the amount of time you've known your counselor really not matter ? (btw, do public schools like the UCs require at least need a counselor rec? i know they don't accept teacher/mentor recs).</p>
<p>ehh, i wouldn't worry - i had a new counsellor my senior year of high school - and he was the most amazing person ever - much better than my previous counsellors.</p>
<p>Hmmm, I know that I had an awesome math teacher of mine who had been my teacher from freshman to junior year, and after junior year he left b/c he found better money, though he still wrote the recommendation for me and ten of my classmates, so I don't see why you can track down your GC and request for him to write you a recommendation.</p>
<p>That's true--a rec from your old counselor with a sticky note of sorts giving the DL on the situation could be totally fine.</p>
<p>Gooduniforme, this happens frequently... it happened with my daughter last year. She recently graduated from a top public high school in which her counselor (also the Head of Counseling) retired just before her senior year. What was really lost was the expertise and knowledge he had developed in honing relationships with college adcoms over more than 20 years in his role. Fortunately, the effect for a student will be mitigated by a number of things that the student can do. Make an appointment with the counselor early in the school year (before the big push of Early plan recommendations surface) and just go over a few things (some of which may be standard practices anyway):</p>
<ul>
<li><p>Introduce yourself and give a verbal summary of yourself and your EC's; ask about his/her background; welcome him/her to the school or new role.</p></li>
<li><p>Communicate your plans, e.g., any EA/ED plans, along with your intended RD plans</p></li>
<li><p>Provide a draft of a "brag sheet" to the counselor and indicate that it is still in "draft" form and that you will provide a finalized copy before long. (The brag sheet is a 3-4 page summarized listing of your academic accomplishments, honors/recognitions received, ECs, volunteer work, jobs, etc.)</p></li>
<li><p>Go over your H.S. courseload, identifying all AP/Honors classes taken, and get an idea as to whether the counselor sees this as having taken "the most difficult", "difficult", or "normal" courses available at the H.S. (you want to hear the counselor say "the most difficult", because s/he will have to check a box to this effect).</p></li>
<li><p>Take a few minutes to mention any extraordinary circumstances relating to yourself and/or your family, i.e., single-parent household, low-income, job commitments, personal urgencies, etc. that you feel the counselor needs to be aware of.</p></li>
<li><p>Confirm what the counselor will send out as part of his/her recommendation and ask if there is anything else s/he needs from you. Thank the counselor for his/her time.</p></li>
</ul>
<p>In the case of the UCs, the recommendation from the GC doesnt make much difference; the UCs are most concerned about receiving official transcripts from the H.S.</p>
<p>UC schools neither solicit nor accept recs from anyone, teachers or GC. Says so right at <a href="http://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/admissions/undergrad_adm/apply/apply_how.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/admissions/undergrad_adm/apply/apply_how.html</a></p>
<p>For the other schools you're applying to, see if you can get in contact with the old GC and ask him (nicely!) if he could write you a rec. He IS retired, so maybe he wants to walk away from it all; on the other hand, he might be flattered that you want a rec from him and be willing to do it. Then have your current GC submit a rec saying he's brand new and that the old GC is suppling the narrative portion of the rec. The current one can fill out the routine stuff (eg. taken hardest classes, rank, etc).</p>
<p>At my school the student to guidance counselor ratio is something like 1:700. I have heard of students getting teachers they know to fill out the guidance counselor rec in leiu; is this possible?</p>
<p>MorsVenit, this is true... many public high schools cannot afford to have many guidance counselors, but teachers are not the ones who will do the "guidance counselor" recommendation required for colleges. The school's administration staff/counseling department will generally take care of that. Because of the type of ratio you mention (not uncommon to have one counselor for hundreds of students at public high schools), colleges recognize that GC recs are less-so "recommendations" per se, but rather official verification of academic work done, test scores, school EC's, etc.. </p>
<p>At my daughter's school, the student and the parents fill out forms for the counselor to then create the "letter of recommendation". It would be impossible for the counselor to even know 10% of the kids very well. In some cases, students meet perhaps once a year with their counselors. As well, the specific college (or Common Application) will generally provide an official form for both your Guidance Counselor and Teacher recs. The Teacher recommendations are the most important.</p>
<p>Norcaldad writes: "Because of the type of ratio you mention (not uncommon to have one counselor for hundreds of students at public high schools), colleges recognize that GC recs are less-so "recommendations" per se". Sadly this is not true at some selective colleges. </p>
<p>In the US News college app FAQ is the following
[quote]
Q: I attend a large public school where my counselor doesn't know me well. Will I be at a disadvantage because this person couldn't possibly write anything insightful about me?</p>
<p>Gary Ripple, now director of admissions at Pennsylvania's Lafayette College, was asked this question when he was admissions dean at Virginia's College of William and Mary. He said to the student questioner: "I wonder why your counselor doesn't know you. Your counselor probably has over 300 students he or she is responsible for. You should take the initiative to get to know your counselor. At William and Mary, we look for students who take charge of their lives." The student sank slowly into his seat, Ripple recalls. </p>
[/quote]
Personally I think this is a crock. It is eminently unfair that a kid in a wealthy suburb or with parents who can foot the bill for a private HS gets personal attention from counselors without lifting a finger, simply because that's how the school is run. You wonder why some colleges are seen as bastions of elitism and I think it starts with attitudes like this. A rich kid is going to be well known by her/his counselor and get real guidance along the way, suggestions for ECs that look good, advice on what classes to take, where to apply, and so on. This starts early so by the time you get to 12th grade the playing feel is darned tilted. At most public schools the counselors are busy trying to keep all the delinquents in school and view a good kid as a blessing, one that won't consume their time because they're ok on their own and the counselor has 800 kids to look after. My suspicion is that these wealthy kids are the ones that many colleges want to attract since they can pay full freight, have parents who can be tapped for donations (and probably have a good future themselves if they take over daddy's business). But its too crass to openly admit it, so subterfuges such as the "its your fault you didn't know your counselor" let them choose who they really want while masking whats really going on.</p>
<p>But enough ranting. Its worth pointing out (regardless of its justice) that at many schools you will be judged by the recs you get from your counselor and teachers. And by your ECs even though nobody was telling you to participate. And so on.</p>
<p>I completely understand how you must feel, as I myself have had 3 guidance counselors in 3 years of high school (I'm hoping that they won't change it again for senior year...) I agree with NorCalDad: DEFINITELY schedule an appointment with your new counselor at the start of the year. This will definitely leave an impression on a counselor who will undoubtedly be feeling stress at having to meet so many seniors. Use the first appointment to simply chat with your counselor. Tell him/her about you and your interests, what you like to do, what qualities you are looking for in a college, etc. Then, meet with the counselor again in a week or two to discuss more academic stuff. I find that the best way to establish a good relationship with your GC is to go out of your way to get to know them. You can establish a strong relationship with your GC even after a few months if you make the effort. </p>
<p>Another recommendation: put together a packet of your best work for your GC, or a couple of personal statements. At my school, GCs had each student prepare a personal info packet that had lots of information about ECs and personal anecdotes (such as "what are 3 adjectives that best describe you and why" and "write about a time when you used good ethics, describe", etc.). This will really help your counselor know you in writing and they can reference your packet when they write a recommendation letter. I would even enclose a picture so your counselor can put your name to your face. </p>
<p>Basically do everything you can to make it easy to get to know your counselor. When I first had my counselor change (10th grade), I was disappointed, but got over it. When I had my counselor change again, I was even more ****ed off because I had made such an effort the year before t get to know my counselor. But when I scheduled an appointment to meet my 3rd (and hopefully final) counselor, she was really glad that I did it so soon. I honestly think it made a difference in getting to know her. I think she is actualyl my favorite counselor yet. She was able to recommend schools to me and I think she really likes me as a person. I think this definitely helps with college stuff (I know some people that didn't introduce themselves until their mandatory meetings in january and they really don't know her as well). </p>
<p>Anyway, good luck with your situation, and remember, it's not the end of the world! Make an effort to KNOW your counselor and results will probably be good!</p>
<p>mikemac, </p>
<p>I am astonished by the remarks of that adcom. I have never heard a college admissions counselor to say anything so bluntly unfair. I have had occasion to speak with admissions officers at many schools, and generally, I feel that most are quite fair. Because my daughter had a similar situation occur to her, we understood that this was an important question to pose to the adcoms and college representatives. By and large, most recognized the inherent differences between public high schools (especially here in California, where school funding is a perennial hot topic) and private schools in their ability to offer quality college counseling. One memorable conversation I had with an admissions officer at Pomona College stated it best: He said that they take the application seriously, and they consider CONTEXT as an important factor. Certainly, additional recommendations by those who know the student best will make up for anything lacking from a GC who does not know the student.</p>
<p>While it ultimately behooves the individual student to take the initiative, the unfortunate matter is that some GCs are overwhelmed in their jobs and do not make time available for students one-on-one. The smart student will persevere, nonetheless, to make certain that important information is being communicated to the GC for inclusion in the letter sent to the colleges.</p>
<p>BTW, I dont know if you noticed but the linked article you referenced had an error:</p>
<p>
[quote]
How can I enhance my chances at a highly selective college if my test scores are not impressiveSAT I 1110, ACT 27but I have taken rigorous courses and earned A's and have been a leader in extracurricular activities?</p>
<p>Take the SAT II tests. There are a number of tests from which to chooseand you can suppress those scores you do not like and just release your best ones. Colleges notice high SAT II results; they demonstrate your knowledge of subject matter. Also take AP tests, ideally one or two in your junior year. Scores of 4 or 5 will grab the attention of schools and show them you can succeed in college. Perhaps take a course at a local college. An impressive recommendation from a professor will enhance your application. And remember that in filling out applications, strong, well-written essays will help convey your strengths.
[/quote]
As many of us know, you cannot pick and choose which SAT scores you want to send. I suppose its true you cant believe everything you read on the Internet. ;)</p>
<p>well, as some of you have said, my "former" counselor was the "boss" of counselors, had about 400+ students to deal with, and did not know me THAT well. However, I frequently visited him about schedule changes, my financial situation, etc. and I'm sure he knew, at least vaguely, my interests and what I was planning to do in college. Although you all recommend me to track him down, I don't know if our relationship was THAT "memorable" for him to write something remarkable about me. However, I did remember him always telling me during scheduling and other appointments how glad he was to always work with students like me because I always had all the correct paperwork filled out BEFORE I came (unlike some people who wasted time with stupid questions and filling out paperwork when all that was supposed to be done before). NorCalDad and Devushka, since the RD for the state university system is in November, there is urgent need to meet with counselors before that date, and at my school, we will have seniors-counselors meetings aroung Oct or Nov, so I guess that's the time I should explain everything, or do you recommend that I speak with them before that time to get acquainted ?</p>
<p>Not a huge issue...just ask him if after he retires, if it's ok to contact him by phone or email to write the letter of recommendation....I would bet he would be ok with that.</p>
<p>thanks inapickle. Maybe I should have asked this earlier, but whether you request it or not, don't privates/prestigious schools REQUIRE some kind of counselor rec ?</p>
<p>I'm not sure how your school does it, but if I were you, I'd schedule your first appointment a few weeks into school. I think showing initiative to get to know your counselor would reflect responsibility aon your part and your counselor could start to recognize you before the big crowds of kids start coming in. Check to make sure this is OK, though. Policies are probably different at various schools, but at mine you can sign up for appointments in guidance. I'd just give the guy 2 weeks or so to get adjusted and then go for it!</p>
<p>Why wouldn't you ask your old counselor for an additional letter of recommendation? That's seems no brainer...</p>
<p>
[quote]
Why wouldn't you ask your old counselor for an additional letter of recommendation? That's seems no brainer..
[/quote]
Cre8tive1, the problem is that colleges have this bent for "official" documentation, and the letter from the GC is not merely a letter of "recommendation" but a compilation of verified courses taken, evidence of relative academic rigor, school profile, official transcript, etc., as well as individualized commentary about a student's personal circumstances, outstanding extracurricular achievements, etc. An additional letter of recommendation from the former counselor might be useful, assuming a college is willing to accept extra letters, but the OP has stated that the counselor did not know the OP "THAT well" out of 400 students.</p>
<p>Gooduniforme, I agree with Devushka and suggest earlier than later -- perhaps a couple of weeks into the new term -- to meet with your new counselor. Really, don't be shy about it if you are concerned.</p>
<p>NorCalDad, I meant in addition, stress "additional letter of recommendation". So long as it is a private university, they'll graciously accept it.</p>
<p>thanks everyone. NorCalDad, you mention the following: "the letter from the GC is not merely a letter of "recommendation" but a compilation of verified courses taken, evidence of relative academic rigor, school profile, official transcript, etc., as well as individualized commentary about a student's personal circumstances, outstanding extracurricular achievements, etc." So, 1) most, if not all, colleges require this type of letter, right ? 2) let's say my counselor maintained some commentaries/notes about me on file or on his computer. is my new counselor, who will only have known me for about 3-4 months, qualified to write about my ECs/personal circumstances ? Besides the fact that at some point I will have visited and acquainted myself with this new GC, can they simply go by what the previous GC left in his notes/files and reiterate all of that on paper ? I guess it would be fine after I will visit a few times, in addition to what my previous GC left. (but who knows if he even left anything on the computer. of course the official stuff is there, ie. grades and all, but maybe the personal stuff is gone. i'm really just assuming here). Devushka, spacibo, I will certainly visit early ! (btw, i know this sounds shy as hell, but what exactly should i talk about when i make a visit ? I don't want to be rejected, ie. "hello, im planning to apply to X Uni. " GC: "you know what dear, we'll discuss more of that during the November meeting").</p>
<p>My GC is also leaving, but she'll still be in the district, working at my school's rival school. My old GC volunteered to do my recs and everything that needed to be done with my applications. She will still have access to my academic records (through the district database), so it shouldn't be a problem for her. I was wondering if this might be against college admissions procedure??? Thanks in advance.</p>