I’m a HS sophomore. I plan to major in Econ in college, and I’m trying to be a good candidate for the universities with the lowest admission rates.
Freshman year, I took
AP Calc BC
Intro microeconomics (at local UC)
Intro macroeconomics (at local UC)
AP CS Principles
AP Spanish
This year, I am taking
Diff eqn (UC)
Linear Algebra (UC)
AP US History
AP CS A
AP Bio
Intermediate micro (UC)
Intermediate macro (UC)
I am only taking AP Bio out of a sense of solidarity with my girlfriend, and I already hate it after just 2 weeks.
Then I realized I’m running out of AP classes offered by my HS. The only classes available that I can reasonably take are:
AP Chem
AP Microeconomics
AP English Lang
AP Art History
I plan to keep taking more math and econ classes at the UC, and I really have 0 interest in Bio and Chem.
So, some questions:
Do I need to take AP Chem for course rigor?
Does it look silly for me to take AP Micro when I’m taking upper division econ classes at a UC?
My official Jr and Sr high school course list look really anemic, since I took most of my APs last year and this. Am I screwed for course rigor?
My HS GPA will be lower than my peers (because I will be taking relative fewer AP classes). More screwage?
Do I need to keep taking Spanish (my HS offers a class in Spanish culture and lit.) for the 3/4-yr foreign language requirement?
Stop worrying and focus on my ECs? Should I just leave HS a year early (but I’m really enjoying HS)?
AP economics would be a useless duplication of introductory economics you already took as a college course. Don’t bother with the course (though if you end up wanting to go to a college with stingy transfer credit policies, you may want to take the AP exams in case the college does not allow subject credit for the college courses but does for AP scores).
You do want to have biology, chemistry, and physics in high school, though they do not necessarily have to be AP. Be aware that some colleges like UCSD Revelle and MIT have substantial science general education requirements.
UCs recalculate GPA with college courses counted as “honors” along with AP courses. Many other colleges also consider college courses taken while in high school in determining your course rigor.
UCs consider level attained, and AP Spanish is considered level 4+. However, some colleges may favor more years even at a high level. Be aware that colleges may have foreign language graduation requirements, so the higher level you get to in high school, the fewer courses in college you may need to fulfill such requirements. Additionally, knowing another language may be helpful (e.g. Spanish may help if you study the economics of Spain and other Spanish-speaking countries).
For math, consider multivariable calculus. If you plan to go on to PhD study, upper level (proof based) linear algebra and real analysis are favored, but those may be substantially more difficult. Calculus-based probability theory is also useful.
You may want to consider courses in other social sciences (e.g. psychology, sociology) as well, since economics has relations to other social sciences.
Since there is no mention of AP scores or GPA, I presume you are doing well with this rigor. If not, it is better to slow down.
Take a look at the core courses and make sure you are reaching the levels needed for english, foreign language, science, social science, math and arts. (A-G for UCs)
Are you also taking other classes (regular or honors)?
In addition to Econ, you would need to take World History or European History + US History (can be AP or at a CC or honors) + Chem&Physics (can be honors - note that AP Chem is a “level 2” class that supposes a prior chem class) + English all 4 years, including AP Lang if you can + 1 Art class. Graphic Design and Media Studies may be relevant, as would Sociology and calc-based statistics (at the CC or UC).
AP economics would be a useless duplication of introductory economics you already took as a college course. Don’t bother with the course (though if you end up wanting to go to a college with stingy transfer credit policies, you may want to take the AP exams
Thanks! I forgot I can just skip the class and “self-study” to take the AP test. However, I was under the impression that the most selective colleges tend to disregard the AP test score and focus on the class grade. Wouldn’t it be useless for the purpose of admissions to have a test score but no class grade?
I agree that it would be a waste of my time if I took AP Micro for the purpose of education. The question is whether another AP class (even if it’s in AP Micro) would improve my course rigor and therefore help my college admission.
You do want to have biology, chemistry, and physics in high school, though they do not necessarily have to be AP.
Oh, I am resigned that I have to take the full complete of bio, chem, and physics. I just wonder if my curriculum would still be “most rigorous” if I didn’t take AP bio and AP chem and just took the normal versions instead.
(Oddly enough, I would have loved to take AP Physics, since that’s just math. Unfortunately, my school doesn’t offer any version of AP Physics.)
Additionally, knowing another language may be helpful (e.g. Spanish may help if you study the economics of Spain and other Spanish-speaking countries)
I have no interest in taking additional Spanish if it’s not required for college admission. I am fairly sure that I would consider my academic career a failure if I ended up needing Spanish professionally or educationally. I am also fairly sure that HS Spanish would be insufficient if I were to end up needing Spanish professionally or educationally.
In any case, it sounds like I would need to exhaust my school’s Spanish offerings. So be it.
Are you also taking other classes (regular or honors)? In addition to Econ, you would need to take World History or European History + US History
Since mine is a question about rigor, I didn’t add the non-AP and non-honor classes I would take, assuming a “normal” class wouldn’t add to a measure of rigor. I am taking APUSH right now, and unfortunately my school does not offer AP Euro or world history.
In any case, I am not that focused UC admissions. My school is on top of the A-G requirements. I am also perfectly content to take my first year(s) at a CC and then work a transfer, if it came down to it.
Taking AP economics after taking college economics would look like grade grubbing. I.e. it may be of negative value in terms of perception of rigor.
The AP test is only for a backstop in case you attend a college that will not give you subject credit for your college courses but will for AP scores. It would unlikely be of any value in admissions, given your college economics courses.
If you are as advanced in math and economics as you say you are, then starting at a community college may not work that well for you, since you will have exhausted community colleges’ offerings in those subjects by the time you graduate high school.
Rigor is not evaluated simply by counting AP’s. Generally speaking, 8-10 AP/IB/Dual Enrollment classes meet any university’s definition of rigor.
However they will check that you’ve taken all the different subjects.
Beware of the “AP robot” look, ie., the kid who just piles up AP’s - not appreciated by college admissions.
You do also want to show rigor progression, which is going to be difficult. What do you envision in terms of Jr and Sr year schedules? Can you move to near-fully DE?
CC may be impossible if you’ve already taken Intro and Intermediate courses in your future major and have AP’s that cover a lot of Gen Eds. Look at the CC-> UC path and check where you are with that, too.
Not sure what career you’re expecting (it looks like it’d be very quantitative, perhaps quantitative finance or sth of the kind?), but if you’re ambitious, proficiency in a foreign language (if not Spanish, then another one) and ability to navigate cultural differences will be of great importance since you’ll likely deal with people from different areas of the world and with different cultures. So if you’ve exhausted the Spanish offerings and don’t see yourself ever using it, and even if your ideal study abroad semester is in the City of London or in another English-speaking country, look at what other languages you could start working on (French and German are basics if you think you’ll deal with Europe, Chinese, Korean, or Hindi if you’re thinking Asia - though they’ll be harder to reach proficiency in). Since you’ve already reached Level 4+ in Spanish, anything you’d add in terms of FL would show “intellectual curiosity” and would add to general rigor.
You should take the hardest courses available to you at your school, and then when you run out in a subject, challenge yourself with DEs. AP chem is challenging and APBio usually is too: why not take them? However, if they don’t interest you I suppose you can skip them if you want.
And I agree with others, why not start a new language? I am not sure why you say that you will consider yourself a failure if you need Spanish in your professional career. Foreign language, especially one as widely used as spanish, is helpful in every career I can imagine.
You’re focusing WAY too much on academics. If your goal is top school or bust, you are probably already aware that those colleges do not want academic drones.
But rigor is important. You should take courses that will enable your guidance counselor to mark your schedule as being Most Rigorous. That probably means taking a lot of AP’s, including sciences.
What’s with all the college courses? Spend time on ECs too, and have a balanced résumé. You need to impress with your ECs. Think outside the box about how you can make an impact with what you do outside of school. That’s who they like to admit. More more more academics isn’t the right way to get into HYPSM and similar schools.
Take enough AP to look good on the application. Lot of the EC will not want to give you college credit for AP. They believe their curriculum is superior so it is hard to transfer credit from other colleges, plus so many students come in with the AP credit how could they justify paying faculty to teach intro? Work on some EC to impress them for admission. Be unique. And get sleep and have some fun. My kid was a grinder in HS. Got into an elite, worked hard and now seems burned out. Good luck!
They want it all. Brains and things that demonstrate something more than just academic chops. That’s why all those kids with 4.0 and 1600 SAT scores don’t necessarily have a better shot at HYPSM. With some exceptions, mostly all students getting into those schools have great grades and test scores. So it’s all the other stuff that sets them apart.
Colleges still want kids with brains. Given they have more applicants to choose from they now have more kids “with brains” to differentiate amongst so they now want brains and more.
I would never want to inadvertently diminish a recently matriculated elite student by implying they didn’t “have brains”.
If you are as advanced in math and economics as you say you are, then starting at a community college may not work that well for you, since you will have exhausted community colleges’ offerings in those subjects by the time you graduate high school.
This is an extremely good point. Thank you so much for reminding me!
But rigor is important. You should take courses that will enable your guidance counselor to mark your schedule as being Most Rigorous. That probably means taking a lot of AP’s, including sciences.
Yep! That’s my motivation for making this post. What I’m getting is that I probably need to take that extra Spanish class beyond AP Spanish, and I will need to take AP Chem.
Since you are targeting econ/business major, you are better off spending time doing ecs showcasing the “soft skills” needed to succeed in business. Academic rigor in STEM looks already good enough. Maybe courses in communication (oral and verbal), culture might help.
If you are looking for the counselor’s indication of “most demanding” course selection and “one of the top few” in academic strength, you may want to ask your counselor how your course selection will affect that. What your counselor’s criteria for these may not be what you are assuming.
Note that UCs do not use counselor reports in admissions, so this would only be for colleges that do use them.
I am taking all those APs freshman and sophomore certainly because I can, but also because I want to smooth my course load through all 4 years of HS. I just worry that I front loaded my APs too much.
I’ll admit that my scheduled is pretty packed during soccer season, but I’m actually not grinding all that hard the rest of the year. I founded a club at school, but I managed to delegate most of my responsibilities. I think that’s going pretty well. I have a part time job doing IT for a property management company, and I’m trying to maneuver that into more property management and less IT. I might give up my job for mock trial next year, after I have enough money saved up for a car.
I look at my “competitors” at school, and they all seem to work harder and have less fun than I do.
I get the sense that US colleges want kids with enough brains but not necessarily the biggest brains. Or maybe they just want kids with bigger brains than mine. So be it.
I’m also looking into UK universities, because they seem to value the bigger brains more. But I’m not sure how my career path will work post UK university, so I’m just in the thinking stage right now.