<p>Both my children have attended charter high schools, but my D is now transferring to our local public HS for 10th grade. The charter school she attended for 9th grade did not offer any honors courses. The charter school my son attended for most of his HS years was considered "accelerated." Students were able to choose to do honors-level work in any of their courses in 9th and 10th grade, and in 11th and 12th, all classes were designated as Honors classes.</p>
<p>My D is not a stellar student, but when we met with the guidance counselor at her new HS to register for courses, my D chose Honors English since English is her best subject and she was often frustrated with the slow pace of her regular 9th grade English class.The guidance counselor agreed with her choice since my D had A's in 9th grade English.</p>
<p>However a short time later we received communication from the HS stating that they needed more information in order to place my D in Honors English. Unless she was in Honors English for 9th grade, they needed to see standardized test scores, including those from middle school! It has taken some time for the school to get the required paperwork and we still don't have an answer as to whether my D can take Honors English. I have mixed feelings since, on the one hand, I don't think my D should be denied an opportunity based on junior high test scores and the fact that she didn't take an Honors class at a school that didn't offer it, but on the other hand, I'm not sure how rigorous the course-work will be and how my D would handle it. I guess I think she should at least be able to try it.</p>
<p>Subsequently, while looking for some contact info on the website of my D's former school, I saw that they are adding Honors English classes to their curriculum for 11th and 12th grade but that in order for students to be able to take Honors they need to have earned the highest designation on our state standardized test for reading and writing and have A's in all previous English classes.</p>
<p>So... I wondered how other schools handle this. Do most schools have rigid standards as far as who is allowed to take Honors classes?? Or are the classes open to anyone who is willing and able to do the work??</p>
<p>My school does have some prerequisites for AP/honors/accelerated classes. I don’t believe that they are as strictly enforced as they are at your child’s school. </p>
<p>For example: My freshman year (at a public high school) I simply told my guidance counselor that my “Algebra I” class wasn’t challenging me, so he switched me to honors geometry a few weeks into the year. This past year I told him I was going to study Pre-Calculus over the summer. So now I’m jumping straight from Honors Algebra II to AP Calculus. I’ve done this with a few other classes such as skipping chemistry I and taking AP Chemistry. My friend went from French I to Honors French III to Honors French V(AP French basically).</p>
<p>In short: In my school, the requirements seem rigid at first glance but they are fairly lenient in granting special privileges. The most they would do is look at your GPA and determine if you could handle it or not from that.</p>
<p>I’m surprised that they are asking for test scores from all the way back from middle school! I know many students who have made extreme changes for the better in their study habits and learning ability since then. Their test scores from middle school simply would not accurately describe their ability anymore!</p>
<p>My kids’ public school allows kids to take any class they want. Few kids take AP classes in 9th grade. Many kids take AP classes in 10th grade. There is some correlation between the standardized test scores and the ability to take honors/AP classes; however, there are some exceptions. Many kids take AP classes but feel overwhemed and don’t score high on the AP tests. I think that is the reason that some schools have concern with.</p>
<p>I think your D can take Honors English if she feels it’s right for her. At least you can ask the school to let her try in the first 2,3 weeks. If she feels it’s too much later then move to regular English.</p>
<p>Our school does have requirements (minimum grad of B in previous class) for all honors and AP classes as well as some regular classes. There are also additional reading and homework assignments. Classes are picked in January and at that time the current teacher, the parent (and for AP classes, the upcoming AP teacher) and the guidance counselor all have to sign off on the schedule. The student and parent also sign a contract stating that the student will do whatever is required over the summer. Because our HS is small, changing classes after they start is very much discouraged.</p>
<p>Our school doesn’t have any honors classes for standard 9th grade classes. There theory is that they want to start with a clean slate. The dirty secret is that at least in English and History there are always sections that have more of the best students. In math and science there are high school level classes in middle school so that 9th graders can go straight into the honors sections of 10th grade level classes. In any event there are generally rules for getting into honors and AP classes - generally it’s based on grades and exams given by the school. However it’s not that hard to petition to get into an honors class if you are on the cusp.</p>
<p>At our kids´previous school, since they were there from K to whenever, they were placed in different level of class based on their grade from previous year. Last year, D2 moved from one high school to another (junior year). She had to take a placement test for all of her classes. They also used those tests to determine if she could be in their IB program. I know at the other high school, any new kid was also placed based on their test scores.</p>
<p>Our HS required MS guidance counsellor referrals to take the Honors placement tests for
9th grade. Have to pass the test to be admitted - mind you, there are plenty of helicopter moms who wear down the HS GS and get their kids placed in even if they don’t pass the test.</p>
<p>Kids fill out an application to take the placement test for Honors Bio/Chem/Physics in Dec of 9th. If you are sick the day the forms have to be in, too bad. Many qualified kids miss out because the forms are on-line and dates are not announced - you are just supposed to “know.” However, once placed in Honors Eng, Soc Sci, or Math classes, you are in a special curriculum track through 12th (you can get off the track at any time, you just can’t get on any other way).</p>
<p>Anyone can sign up for AP’s starting in 10th (APUSH only offered in 10). With or without the foundation class.</p>
<p>I personally think the system makes little sense.</p>
<p>With a new principal, they seem to be looking at some of the flawed thinking in many areas of the curriculum - hopefully the above will be addressed as part of the review.</p>
<p>You may also want to check what are taught in the 10th grade Honors English at your D’s school. The 10th grade Honors English in my kids’s school was called Honors Humanities. I think it was more difficult than 11th grade Honors English. It covered a wide range of topics from the ancient times to Renaissance and contemporary existentialism and required student to read difficult materials and write thoughtful essays, not just English literature and composition.</p>
<p>Our district requires students to get a signature from their current teacher in a subject to place into an honors/AP/IB class next year, along with a parent signature. Once the end of the current school year is over, no changes can be made. Although a teacher signature is required, a parent can override and say they want their child in an upper level class; we’ve never done that, but apparently it happens. With the caveat that they can’t drop down if they think the work load is too heavy or hard once the new school year starts. </p>
<p>One thing that happens with honors courses here: the state of TN requires an Honors portfolio for classes with that designation (ap/ib are not included in this as they have their own set of requirements.) How this plays out in our district is that at the end of each MP there are honors portfolio projects due; huge pain in the rear when most of your classes are honors & they’re all due the same week. Especially when the math project is really an art project for algebra 2…</p>
<p>Our district does have requirements for accelerated classes or AP (we don’t have “honors” only what they call accelerated). For 9th grade it is contingent on standardized tests and teacher recommendations from middle school and from then on it is predicated on the GPA in the previous course. Since schools are wildly different in how they grade, I can understand why they might want some sort of standardized tests that would give them a normative to evaluate her ability to succeed in an accelerated class. Hopefully you can get your hands on some earlier testing that would indicate she can handle the honors level class. But to answer your question I think it would be “unusual” for a school to let everyone/anyone sign up for accelerated courses without some pre-reqs.</p>
<p>My D graduated from a small, excellent public HS. Anyone can take anything. If they have to they can and will redo a schedule if a kid realizes he is over his head the first week. We dont get many transfers in to the district at the HS level.</p>
<p>Both of my Ds attend(ed) the same small public HS. D1 graduated in June. When she was in 9th grade, anyone could take honors classes as long as they had parent and previous teacher’s permission. I know of several parents who called the school and had their children moved to honors classes, despite previous test scores. </p>
<p>A new principal started when D1 was in 10th grade. Her rules for honors classes are much more stringent. She also limited the number of APs that a student could take. At one point, if a student wanted to take 6APs, they were allowed. Only 11th and 12 grade can take APs, and if you want to take 3, you need special permission. No one is allowed to take 4 or more. My D was able to take 3, and took 4 AP tests, since her Physics teacher felt that she was capable of taking the test.</p>
<p>D2 is an entering 9th grader at the same school. The rules have completely changed regarding honors classes. Her placement into classes was based upon a combination of her 7th and 8th grade class scores, standardized test scores, and teacher recommendations. We were happy with her placements, which were a combination of honors, accelerated, and college prep classes.</p>
<p>“Honors” or “AP” means almost nothing, except you can get some credits for “AP” at college (or may not, depends). School/teacher means everything. D’s HS allowed taking AP’s starting only in Junior year and only 3 AP’s/year. Many AP’s were not even offerred at all. She found herself being much better prepared in her regyular classes than others in AP’s. This landed her a job at college as SI for Chem. prof, she was hand picked by him, she did not even know that position existed. She never had AP Chem in HS and ended up explaining material to many who did. They loved her sessions and she was praised by her boss Chem. prof for raising grades in class.<br>
I would not remove a child from better school simply because school does not offer many Honors/AP’s. Better school tend to attract/hire better teachers who teach much better and prepare kids for future challenges at much higher level. You can call it whatever, Regular/Honors/AP, label does not mean as much as a teacher who teaches the subject.</p>
<p>At my kids’ HS, any kid can take any class (honors or AP)…at his own risk. Everyone is warned over and over to plan their courses carefully because schedule changes are only allowed for increasing rigor. Decreasing rigor is not permitted. (Well, it’s probably occurred, but it’s positioned as not permitted.)</p>
<p>This is really true with schools of high quality. But if a kid goes though a public schools that offers many Honors/AP classes, he/she is forced to join the race.</p>
<p>Our public high school has very very strict prerequisites for honors and AP classes. Much as I am happy with our school district, this is my biggest frustration. They use a carefully designed rubric that takes into account grades and standardized test scores only. Teacher recommendations have no weight whatsoever; that way teachers aren’t caught in the middle, pressured by parents or administrators to recommend a student who isn’t ready, etc. If you don’t make the cut on the rubric, you don’t get in. No appeals, no nothing. A few years back someone took his kid’s case to the school board president and superintendant, and lost. I hate the reliance on standardized tests. But it’s been like that for years and isn’t going to change.</p>
<p>No freshmen take AP classes. AP US History is a 2-year course beginning in 10th grade. All other AP classes are for juniors and seniors or have prerequisites that would be difficult to complete before that time. Honors classes start in 9th grade.</p>
<p>Yes in our district also APs don’t start until 10th grade and are predicated on performance in 9th grade. We only have 5 or 6 APs but we do have classes that are as tough and everyone knows what those classes are. They send a few off to the holy grail of colleges each year out of 200 graduates so I think the school is chugging along just fine. I have no quibble with schools that put performance hurdles before advancing students. It’s really the way life is…doing good at your job, you should be promoted yada yada.</p>
<p>Thanks to everyone who responded. It is interesting to see how differently this is handled at different schools.
Still not sure what will be decided in my daughter’s case or if I will attempt to challenge a decision.
I think philosophically, though, that I agree with the less rigid approaches. High schools should provide access to educational opportunities for students who wish to take advantage of them. I really dislike the idea that students are rigidly tracked based on performance in junior high classes and standardized tests. It seems logical, to me, to have guidelines for suggested placements for students, but if a student wishes to take a more challenging class than the guidelines suggest, they should be allowed to, IMO.</p>