Cross Country/Track (D3/DI) Advice

Div 3 runners can be REALLY fast. You might want to check out the Liberty League as well as NESCAC. RPI, St. Lawrence and RIT are all REALLY fast schools. Don’t take my word for it - google RPI’s Grant O’Connor’s times (24:14 8,000k). Vassar is perhaps the Liberty League school most like the NESCAC schools feel-wise. You can google the freshman runners’ names and Athletic.net and see their high school times (you can do this for any school). There are a couple of freshmen who had sub-4:30 miles there and they had a freshman run 25:38 (8k) at Regional a few weeks ago. Of course you won’t get a running scholarship at a Div 3 school, but Vassar is need-blind if that helps. Ian LaMere is proof that you can be a supremely successful runner at a Division 3 school; he beat every Div 1 10,000er at the Stanford Invitational and was touted for the Olympic trials. You are probably going to have a lot of great options. Your Junior track times are going to be the most important. Every college has a recruiting questionnaire - just go to the cross country websites and fill them in (but wait until May when you have your best times) and then see who is interested. It might be that the right school chooses you (and who knows - it could be anyone?)! Try to bring your GPA up so you have an upward trajectory and train really hard this spring. And YES - absolutely mention the homelessness. Colleges like students who can overcome adversity. Good luck and happy running!

I should add that RPI, RIT, NYU and St. Lawrence were the Atlantic Region schools that sent teams to Nationals this year; Vassar sent an individual. This is all for men.

@Louis5, agree on Liberty League! Our DD runs at the NESCAC school that’s in the Atlantic Region so she gets the best competition from both. She had a tough time choosing as there are so many great schools in those two conferences; I would throw Centennial and North Coast in as well for east of Mississippi conferences. After she got past pre-reads and overnights, in the end for her it was about the best school/best fit - and then they sent two women to Nationals so all good!

Yes, Hamilton did have two women at Nationals. I would have mentioned that (and Ithica), but I was thinking about the men’s teams. Also, I should have said 8k, not 8,000k above. Too much turkey. Also, I think SUNY Geneseo is really good for men too, and that is just NY/ NJ? There are a lot of good runners/ opportunities out there.

@Louis5, 8000k or almost 5,000 miles - now that would be a race!

Agree, the NE quadrant of the country has a lot of D3 schools that are both great academically and athletically.

i’m a sophomore boy and just ran 16:47 for 3 mile XC and was wondering about the best way to get d2/d3 coaches to notice me

@henden105, that’s a great start, but remember XC and Track are about building a resume of faster times as you continue to develop.

So, I would say the next step would be to focus on putting down some strong 800, 1550/1600, 3000/3200 marks in indoor and spring track seasons this year.

Then next Fall, start to reach out to coaches with your Fall XC times - Junior Year is when the process starts as running is tricky given many stop getting faster as they mature, especially female runners which as population top out in 9th/10th grade), so coaches won’t really pay attention unless you are running really, really fast times.

I wouldn’t worry too much about where you might be able to be recruited just yet. Your track season will help define that for you. Also, you definitely do not need to be sub 4:15 as a junior to run for a D1 school. You mentioned Vandy as a possibility, just know that they don’t have a men’s track team, only XC. After your track season, I’d suggest you take a handful of schools that might interest you, go to their rosters, and check out the times that their freshman and sophomores ran as juniors in high school. Milesplit or athletic.net will give you that information. You should be able to determine if you are a good match for a particular school that way. If so, send emails with pertinent stats (including academic information). I don’t know if I would include your GPA circumstances initially, but if you establish a conversation you could bring it up. I also don’t think a 3.2 is horrific, especially if your courses show rigor and you have a good SAT/ACT score. Finally, I can think of several young men who have signed letters of intent to D1 not having run a 1:56/4:20/9:20. To get an athletic scholarship you’ll need to have very good times, but to get interest from a coach and/or be a part of the team without money does not require that. If money is a concern and your times won’t be good enough to get an athletic scholarship, don’t count out the schools that offer good merit aid as potential possibilities.

@EOTYN1, agree that D1 times can vary greatly, but OP specifically asked about D1 Ivy recruiting times so a 4:20 will be needed there by end of Junior year - http://www.dartmouthsports.com/downloads2/1262202.xlsx?DB_OEM_ID=11600

For a D1 major school, such as SEC, it will be lower at 4:14 partial and 4:08 for full - http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/wake/sports/c-track/auto_pdf/2017-18/misc_non_event/RecruitingStandards.pdf

For substantial scholarship consideration, agreed. But for book money athletes or preferred walk-ons, those standards aren’t set in stone, even for P5 conferences. Obviously for the top-ranked programs like Oregon, Stanford, etc. it’s different, but there are top academic D1 schools where those standards won’t necessarily apply. I hope the young man is realistic after his track season, but I’d hate to tell him that he won’t get consideration if he doesn’t run those PR’s. I say email the coaches and let the chips fall.

@EOTYN1, don’t disagree on reaching out to coaches to gauge interest. That said, OP is a Junior with current times of 4:30 1600 and 2:03 800 and as he is interested in Ivy, Vandy, Duke I would think Winter Indoor times would provide good guidance to set expectations.

@Chembiodad I’ve just found this thread! My DD is a new XC runner with some pretty good times. Can you describe the process for your XC/track DD in terms of initial contact/talks with the NESCAC coaches? My DD is only a freshman so we’ve got time but the sports and recruiting realm is new for us (although she’s our 3rd kid). Based on her personality and interests an LAC will probably be what she leans toward.

@3rdgirl, great to hear. What track times is she putting down as XC is too course specific for coaches to focus on, unless 5K times are in the 18:00’s / low-19:00’s.

As a female runner, the key will be to continue to get faster through maturity - as a whole, female runners are fastest in 9th and 10th grade and then biology takes over. So, I would think just focusing on staying healthy and getting stronger is best for now as coaches will want to see progression all the way through Junior year.

In Sophmore year, maybe start touring schools to get a sense of whether she likes urban, suburban or rural since NESCAC has all. PSAT results from Sophomore year will also be important as that will give you a sense as to what schools are likely in the mix - NESCAC coaches have pull, but student-athletes have to profile.

Then in Fall of Junior Year, have her fill out recruiting forms and start emailing coaches - she’ll know quickly, and no later than Spring of Junior year, where the coaches interests lie. Thereafter, coaches visits and pre-reads will come into the mix over Summer of Junior year, culminating in an ED application based on coach’s support.

In addition to NESCAC, there are great schools / competition in the Liberty and Centennial Conferences along the East Coast, and others such as Northcoast in the Midwest.

Thanks for the great information @Chembiodad! My DD took the winter off to perform in a show but is working out with team and will start competing again in the spring. No track times yet but 5Ks are <20 with room for improvement (hopefully!) I’ll check out those other conferences for sure.

Winter strength / cross training is a really good thing. NESAC conference had 3 of the top-35 female teams in the country this past Fall (#7, #9, #12!), and sent 3 teams and 5 individual female runners to D3 Nationals, so a great combination of top academics and athletics.

To get a sense of 5k times, take a look at the attached from the Saratoga Invitational - it’s a fast 5k course, and as many of the XC season races are 6k and really hilly, this a good one to gauge the marks they are putting down https://xc.tfrrs.org/results/xc/12445.html#92156