<p>I’m working through the worksheet in Chany’s “Paying For College Without Going Broke” book and on the Medical and Dental Expenses table in the worksheets sections, he explicitly says “Be sure to include any medical costs that are reimbursed by any medical spending accounts”. (He doesn’t say that in the main text as far as I can see.) So given that and the fact that I know I provided the number for them to add back in, I’m comfortable including it. His instruction for medical-related insurance premiums does not say anything about pre-tax or post-tax deductions.</p>
<p>I’m not an expert on this…so please clarify with someone who is. We never included our pretax medical insurance premium cost share on our Profile because at the time, we were told NO. </p>
<p>I’m honest here…I have not completed a Profile since my daughter was a college junior in 2009.</p>
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<p>Honestly, I have NO IDEA how to find someone who <em>is</em> an expert on this! When I emailed CSS Profile they didn’t seem sure how to handle the case of the FSA at all. I didn’t ask about the health insurance premiums, in part because I didn’t want to receive a reply that may or may not be correct but that I would be “obligated” to adhere to. There ought to be clear published guidelines for these forms, like there are for tax forms, so anyone can read the fine print and learn the correct answer, and not have to rely on the whims of whoever they get on the phone or email.</p>
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<p>We didn’t include money from our Flexible Spending Plan anywhere on the financial aid forms. I’m not saying that’s the gospel…but that’s what we did.</p>
<p>Thank you mathmomvt! I knew I had read that about the health insurance premiums in the Paying for college…book. And am glad I did include them in medical costs. No one seems to know what the real deal is with this insanity. Totally agree with your last post! In the end, I still don’t think it will make a whole lot of difference. The colleges have their own “secret” way of determining need and will give us what THEY WANT to, not what we need or our children deserve!</p>
<p>Yes, the Chany book does say that schools may or may not use the medical expense information, or may use only a portion of it, etc. For medical expenses especially, this seems to be one area that schools treat very differently, so they may even have different opinions on the questions of FSA accounts, pre-tax premiums, etc…so I think the “right thing” is just to document what you did in the ES section.</p>
<p>Thanks for all the input. I believe that I will include all the information on insurance premiums paid, FSA, and then an explanation in the ES section and let the financial aid offices of each school sort it out. It just makes everything so confusing that many of the numbers come directly from the IRS income tax forms, yet the numbers that the Profile asks for are not fully explained. I will take the position that I will give the Profile a literal interpretation of the data they are asking for and let the school’s financial aid officers tell me if I interpreted it correctly.</p>
<p>Instructions for PE-120A from CSS profile:</p>
<p>Enter the amount of money your parents paid or expect to pay in 2010 for medical and dental expenses, including insurance premiums. Don’t include amounts covered or reimbursed by any medical or dental plan including insurance or a government sponsored health care system. Don’t include health insurance deductions for the self-employed from 2010 IRS Form 1040, line 29. If your parents included medical and dental expenses as an itemized deduction on their U.S. income tax return, they may enter the amount from Schedule A, line 1. (See IRS instructions for Form 1040, Schedule A for a comprehensive list of expenses to include.) </p>
<p>It states:</p>
<p>"If your parents included medical and dental expenses as an itemized deduction on their deduction on their U.S. income tax return, they may enter the amount from Schedule A, line 1. (See IRS instuctions for Form 1040, Schedule A for a comprehensive list of expenses to include.)</p>
<p>If you did not indicate a value on Schedule A, line 1…then you would report a “zero” in the box. If you reported a value on Schedule A, line 1(This value has to meet the requirements of the IRS).</p>
<p>IRS instructions state pretax dollars for medical and dental premiums and pretax dollars from a medical expense account can not be included on Schedule A, line 1. </p>
<p>Therefore,</p>
<p>The only monies that can be included in PE-120A must come from post tax dollars.</p>
<p>CSS profile instructions:</p>
<p>PI-200B - Enter the total of amounts withheld or expected to be withheld from wages for dependent care and medical spending accounts in 2010. These amounts are usually reported on W-2 Forms.</p>
<p>Our W-2 Form has no amount reported. Does that mean I should put a “zero” for this question?</p>
<p>Smileygerl, my W-2 lists my dependent care account deductions but not my medical spending account deductions. However I included both since it seems obvious that both were intended. Perhaps I’ll add a note about that too!</p>
<p>Also the guidelines do not say that the parent must enter 0 if not indicating a value on Schedule A line 1. It states that the parents <em>may</em> use the value they entered if they entered a value there.</p>
<p>Smiley, we wish it could be that simple.
I’ve been through this already, twice, and am as confused as anyone about our own EFC, for this year.</p>
<p>Yes, one has to follow IRS rules, to enter figures on Sched A, line 1. For finaid purposes, one “may” use that number. Or not. A family can do their own talley- that’s what we did, in the past two years. </p>
<p>Nowhere does it say, the only time you can provide your medical/dental is IF you met that fed guideline. </p>
<p>Colleges can choose to review your med/dental as part of calculating family expenses and, ultimately, determining your “available family resources.”</p>
<p>Also, our W2s never noted our pre-tax contributions to an HSA. You make the decision that seems best- in a task full of illogic and confusion.</p>
<p>I called the customer service number at CSS today. I have called on more than three occasions and I have been given the same information for PE-120A. </p>
<p>I was told:</p>
<p>PE-120A Medical and dependent expenses are those which are recordable on Schedule A, line 1. </p>
<p>PI-200B Medical and dependent flex accounts funded by pretax dollars (whether or not they appear on your W-2).</p>
<p>The colleges are interested in money that would increase your “Total Available Income” that is not seen on your W-2 or Income Taxes. The safest bet is to clarify your numbers in the explaination section of the CSS profile.</p>
<p>*Nowhere does it say, the only time you can provide your medical/dental is IF you met that fed guideline. <a href=“highlighting%20my%20own%20comment.”>/i</a> </p>
<h2>I meant, Nowhere does it say the only time you can provide your m/d expenses on the Profile, is IF you meet the fed guideline for deducting medical expenses over their threshhold, on the 1040 Sched A, and DO take that deduction</h2>
<p>Yes, the “medical and dependent expenses are those which are recordable on Schedule A, line 1.” </p>
<p>IMO, this refers to the IRS-provided category or definition of legit “out-of-pocket” payments- this does not mean you have to have m/d expenses so high (in proportion to income) that you will actually enter figures on line 1 Sched A. It only means they have to be the sort the IRS considers legit.</p>
<p>Eg, doc visit costs $100, but you submit to the ins co and get $85 back; thus, your oop expense is $15. You do not include the original $100 you paid, only the “actual cost to you.”</p>
<p>Agree, safest bet is to clarify in the explanation section-- not all colleges review these costs. There is already an 11% calc in the “income protection allowance” for med/dental. I believe what they are really looking for is a rough check. And, where folks have extraordinarily high expenses one year, the college will factor those against that 11% to determine any adjustments needed in FA. All within the context of secrecy and mystery, of course.</p>
<p>ps. I no longer have flex accts. One has to make the best decisions possible, note comments, and hope for a smooth ride.</p>
<p>Okay - getting ready to do CSS profile for 2nd time around and just to clarify, to be sure, I will check with you folks. I am still not sure after reading the posts in this thread what to do about my out of pocket medical for PROFILE in terms of including insurance premiums. I do not use a FSA, but I do have my premiums deducted out of my check and paid to Blue/Cross. Am I to add the yearly sum of those premiums to my out of pocket expenses for my medical visits, too? I hope I am not just being dense today. Thanks, everyone! … and Happy Valentine’s weekend!</p>
<p>You’re not being dense, the instructions are unclear! Are your premiums deducted pre-tax? If so that’s the “iffy” situation because that money is not included in your AGI, so it seems “logical” that they not be included. However nowhere in the instructions do they state that pre-tax insurance premiums should be excluded, and the DO say to include insurance premiums. In the end the answer seems to be to explain whatever you decided to do in the ES section, and let each school work it out as they see fit.</p>