<p>Thanks, Nikara...it's definitely encouraging to hear some positive first-hand feedback :).</p>
<p>ucsd<em>ucla</em>dad - Thanks for the comments. My hat is off to you and your wife. Actually, everyone truly has the right to make their own choices. Since i agree with your priorities, i can relate. </p>
<p>We did NOT have a LARGE number of people who made the comments towards us. It was two sets of in-laws (who really like to buy toys, and travel), and then a few neighbors and friends who kept their sons in the public high school. Our son went to public schools through middle school (junior high), and he made a number of friends at those schools. Only two from his middle school chose to go to the private high school. We kept up with many of the parents, some are our neighbors, and we occasionally have sensed some resentment (due to weird comments). Most, however, were very supporitive, or better yet, never even brought it up. </p>
<p>To give you an idea of what we wanted to avoid. And this may just be a reflection on OUR local public high school, but only 32% of the seniors at the local public high school even take the SAT. You can most likely conclude that they (the 32% who took the SAT) are probably the school's best 32% - since they are the ones applyling to colleges. At my son's high school, approx 90% took the SAT (and those who did not take the SAT did take the ACT). The average score of our 90%, was about 200-300 points higher than the 32% from the public school. Only one student from my son's high school did not go on to college (all the others did). I won't mention the low precent from the public school that continues on to colleges (which does not even include the drop-out rate). It is really sad. And i believe that it is NOT a reflection on, or of the students. We knew many of them. Very bright kids. The problems were complex. Too many students per class, students who received little or no parental support (which made it doubly difficult for the teachers), students who did not want to be there, students who did not get enough sleep, and not enough food, etc. Combine that with, district mandated focus on too many non-academic areas. I truly feel bad for the teachers, and for the students who want to receive an excellent education, so that they can go on to good colleges. It was and is a recipe for disaster. </p>
<p>I envy those parents who live in public school districts, where there is still a good strong focus on academics, and where there is a high percentage of parental involvement. (For what it is worth, we live in California, and the median price of a home in our county is over $500,000. So it is not a poverty area. My wife and I believe that (not all) but too many people get caught up in their money and their possessions. They drop their kids off at the school, and that is the extent of their involvement. Our son had friends who stayed up till midnight or later on school nights (we always had early bedtimes). We regularly checked with him on his assignments, and due dates. (not like a hawk, but just enough so that we had some idea of what was going on each week). We went to the back-to-school nights. In middle school, they were scarcely attended. At the private high school, nearly every parent was there. We were paying for the education, and we wanted to see, and hear, what was going on. It really helped. Though kids will say otherwise, they (deep down inside) DO want their parents to care about how they are doing. </p>
<p>We always made a point of staying in close contact with our son, when he started driving. We wanted to know where he was going, and who he was going with. He had to call us when he got there. He had to call when he was on his way home. At least the first year, or so. As a senior, we loosened the leash, but we still wanted to wanted to know where he was going. He always had a curfew. When my wife would call him (and he had a carfull of friends), and he would answer, and she would hear in the background ("Hi, Brian's Mommy" [not his real name]). They knew the routine, and seemed to enjoy it. They liked her, and were always very nice and respectful when they came over, and hung out at our house.</p>
<p>The point? our kids want to be loved. They want us to care about them, and how they are doing. They even want and need rules, boundaries and curfews (even if they say otherwise). Not sure why i went on about all this, but now that it is there, i will go ahead and hit submit. I guess i think it is all important info. :-) </p>
<p>Regards.</p>
<p>I'm applying to USC for grad school and think my party days have (prudently) come to a close with my current Masters. Academically, I really rate it and wouldn't be applying otherwise; I want to go into academia and reputation is v. important.</p>
<p>I really don't think the frat/ sorority/ football characterisation is entirely fair either. Sure, the greek life is pretty big, as is football, but no more so than on many comparatively sized American campuses. Furthermore, whilst some frats are obviously booze oriented, even this set of organisations is diverse enough to include buisness/ academic fraternaties and so forth. To stereotype the girls as tall. blonde etc.. is also inaccurately harsh. I know a pretty broad cross section and can affirm that most do not fit that bill. </p>
<p>Finally, the size of USC affords room for everyone to assimilate. The number of societies and groupings will allow each student to find their niche.</p>
<p>You could make the case (and I would) that the average undergraduate classroom experience at CSU Long Beach or UC Riverside is not materially different than that at Berkeley or Los Angeles.>></p>
<p>I agree with you WashDad. In fact, there are some real advantages, in my mind, to the CSU's and some of the "lesser" UC's that often get overlooked.</p>
<p>"In fact, there are some real advantages, in my mind, to the CSU's"</p>
<p>More, more, please. Since CSU Northridge and Fullerton are her safe bets (they have said major), what would some of those advantages be? Thank you.</p>
<p>
[quote]
You could make the case (and I would) that the average undergraduate classroom experience at CSU Long Beach or UC Riverside is not materially different than that at Berkeley or Los Angeles.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I could not disagree more; there are plusses and minuses to both, but materially different they definitely are.</p>
<p>However, concur with Carolyn on the second point: for many kids, a "lesser" UC or Cal State is likely a better fit.</p>
<p>"This is a USC stereotype with which I'm familiar, but not extensively. It's not to say that everyone at USC is rich, that you have to be rich to attend and enjoy, or that USC doesn't actively try to combat the situation."</p>
<p>From a data perspective on socio-economics, USC is one of the most interesting schools in the country, and I'd say THE most interesting among the prestige or near-prestige institutions. Slightly over half the student body pays the full-freight, which means family incomes are at least in the top 3% of the country, with the medians among those much higher than that. There is really no question that we are looking at a wealthy student body, along the lines of the Ivies.</p>
<p>BUT, at the other extreme, 32% of the student body is on Pell Grants, incomes lower than $40k. It makes USC, for low-income students, the most generous private institution in the country (my d. attends the second-most.) It is truly an extroardinary number.</p>
<p>What this means is that:
51% of students in the top 3% economically (with many higher than that)
32% in the bottom two quintiles (under $40k)
17% - "middle income" - $40k-$160k.</p>
<p>In other words, relative to other institutions, there are very, very few "middle income" students. </p>
<p>So what does that mean in terms of friendships? I haven't a clue. I would wonder to what degree there is significant mixing between the large upper and lower groupings, and to what extent the university promotes it. Is this even a topic of discussion at USC?</p>
<p>For what it's worth, my friends who run Class Action, an organization that promote socio-economic dialogues on campuses, haven't yet been invited to USC (but maybe soon...who knows?) <a href="http://www.classism.org/%5B/url%5D">http://www.classism.org/</a></p>
<p>My S & his friends are in that "middle" group, at USC on merit scholarships. I'll ask him over winter break about "mixing" of social classes (to the extent he may be aware).</p>
<p>Some of those stats have to be wrong. At least from what I've heard about the percentage of students with scholarships and financial aid. I'll go look for some numbers to check that, though.</p>
<p>My son has had a close group of friends at USC for the last three years. The first time he visited them over various breaks, he was stunned by how rich they were. It did not seem to make any difference to them or him though in how they interacted. All of them dressed like refugees from a going out of business Old Navy store.</p>
<p>TS, you S has good friends. Please take it from me that there are social cliques at USC as snobby & snotty as any East Coast "old money" "who are his people?" grouping. Look for those who cheer members of the football team but treat them as "hired help." I'm not saying it's a ubiquitous phenomenon...in any school that size you're going to have a range of attitudes and a choice of places to fit in. But it's recurring enough to be jarring when you do encounter it.</p>
<p>I'm a little puzzled as to why the foundation of the comments of many of you is that if someone is rich, it follows that they are snobby and snooty. Rich people and poor people still share a common humanity, and both sets of economic strata may be friendly, unfriendly, nice or mean, depending on factors way beyond their W2.</p>
<p>I asked my D what her experience has been at USC with regard to the issues in this thread, and she laughed and said when you get to be friends with people, you can probably figure out if they're really rich or really poor, but there are others where it's not so easy. She said in her circle of good friends, there are a couple who are "crazy rich", and a couple who are on almost full need-based scholarships. She says she can't speak for everyone's experience, but that's hers, and so her friends run the gamut.</p>
<p>She also says that football at USC is definitely a sports thing for many people, but that for lots of students it's almost more of a cultural thing. It's a way for people who aren't necessarily into sports to have something in common, and to feel part of a true group. I gather fromwhat she said that football is one of the ways they create the sense of the "Trojan family", which everyone seems to acknowledge is a very strong tie; and that it wouldn't be so strong if the school relationships were defined by cliques.</p>
<p>But these are all preferences, and personal experiences. Each person has their own, and I hope that momofteen's student feels comfortable with the final choice, and has a wonderful college experience !</p>
<p>"At least from what I've heard about the percentage of students with scholarships and financial aid."</p>
<p>I've rechecked the Pell Grant data (from Mortenson at Educational Opportunities.) The % at USC does seem to be especially volatile over the past five years, with a high of 32% and a low of 21%. (21% would still put it in the top 5 of all private institutions.)</p>
<p>Yes there are children of wealthy parents who attend USC. The ones I know are nice kids whose parents happen to have money. Some may flaunt it but most don't. I would not want my student to look down on anyone, poor, wealthy or middle class but to be open to different life experiences and pursue a friendship with them or not, according to their personality, not their spending power.</p>
<p>I have not heard anyone claim that the courses are "University-Lite". Most kids I know who have attended USC had a great experience/education and it's a powerful alumni network here in SoCal. Don't know about anywhere else.</p>
<p>
[quote]
In other words, relative to other institutions, there are very, very few "middle income" students. </p>
<p>So what does that mean in terms of friendships? I haven't a clue. I would wonder to what degree there is significant mixing between the large upper and lower groupings, and to what extent the university promotes it. Is this even a topic of discussion at USC?
[/quote]
I would like to know the answer to your question, mini.</p>
<p>HImom, thanks for the link. I looked at the various USC dance groups (Flygirls, USC Song Girls, and Competition Cheer). D has been trained in classical and contemporary ballet, jazz, and modern - she has choreographed jazz and dance team numbers. Her training and style of dance would make her a better fit for the USC Song Girls, but the team is ALL White and has been since 2001.</p>
<p>Academically USC is a good fit for D and I like the fact it is on the west coast. We are NOT rich but D would be a full freight student unless she receives merit $$. My only concern w/ USC for D is the matter of “social fit”.</p>
<p>See these:</p>
<p><a href="http://uscnews.usc.edu/detail.php?recordnum=11893%5B/url%5D">http://uscnews.usc.edu/detail.php?recordnum=11893</a>
<a href="http://www.usc.edu/uscnews/stories/3225.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.usc.edu/uscnews/stories/3225.html</a>
<a href="http://uscnews.usc.edu/detail.php?recordnum=12456%5B/url%5D">http://uscnews.usc.edu/detail.php?recordnum=12456</a></p>
<p>tsdad- Thanks for the links; we have a USC visit planned for March. Since we live in Cougar Country (Washington State University), well keep Ds interest in becoming a Trojan very quiet.</p>
<p>After nearly four years on this website it disturbs me how many people actively dislike USC. It's not as bad as when I first came on, but it still is out of proportion to any real problems, as opposed to perceived problems, that you find at the school. Maybe it's a Western thing; those of us in the East (well now the Midwest) don't seem to have some many anti-USC prejudices. Heck many people in the DC-area think it's a UC. </p>
<p>The school is one of the most diverse economically and racially in the country. It's a good place to go to college on a lovely, safe, campus with some world class programs. It's a college that rolling in money and is getting better every year. </p>
<p>I'm pleased with the opportunities my son has received and especially the internships. He has made some good friends, some of whom come from much wealthier families than him. The school has provided him money to carry out some of his political and acting activities. We love to visit the absolutely immaculate campus. They have great parents’ day activities and a truly outstanding president.</p>
<p>Other than the cost, what's not to like?</p>
<p>I think part of the beauty of USC being as large as it is helps folks be able to find their "niche." That has certainly been the case for my S & his friends; all have been very happy at USC & had not had trouble "fitting in" or "finding friends." They are not "rich" & many/most of them are not getting much (or any) need-based aid either.
Hope your March visit answers a lot of Qs for both of you. It has been an amazing school for so many students.</p>