<p>TSDad's son would be a prime example of what I mean about individual experiences being up to the individual and you can throw out all the generalizations thereby.</p>
<ol>
<li>Enough with "everyone at USC being obsessed with the greek scene". Sure it's popular, but it doesn't dominate the social life here - only 20% of students are greek-affiliated. </li>
</ol>
<p>Plus, it wouldn't be so bad to "go greek." USC's greek system was recently recognized for having one of the highest positive differences between the average frat or sorority's GPA's and the average undergrad GPA nationally.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>One of the huge things at USC is community service, especially in the local community, and there are opportunities everywhere for people interested in activism and social responsibility.</p></li>
<li><p>Unfortunately, some professors are too dense to recognize that the undergrad quality has improved significantly in the last 15 years. Fortunately, there are only a few of those.</p></li>
<li><p>It's the truth about people being obsessed with football, though. It's just one of those things - even people who had absolutely no interest in it at all before they come here get into it. If it's not your cup of tea, though, not a big deal. You just have to find something else to do for 3-4 hours on saturdays in the fall. It's not like you're going to be ostracized socially because of it.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>m.o.t.: I'll throw in my two cents here. Two of my children have graduated from USC in recent years. They were each enrolled in completely different majors; both took the Thematic Options program for their g.e.'s. Neither of them are thin and blond - or whatever that stereotype offered in a previous post was- neither of them took part in any sorority. Both of them would say now that they had wonderful educations and made great friends and worked hard. It really doesn't matter what people who have never gone to USC themselves or had children/close family members attend USC think - they are likely operating from loose, third hand information. The best advise you've received here, I think is- have your D check it out (with an open mind, minus stereotypes or anything else she's heard) for herself. I'll bet she'll be very impressed! By the way, one of my children was involved with the Annenberg school - a great program!</p>
<p>I don't think my sister would characterize her experiences at USC as "academic lite." Perhaps it is a question of the major -- the physical sciences are pretty challenging wherever they are taught. But I think that there is something about USC that people either love or hate -- and not necessarily for logical reasons. It seems like your daughter's best approach would be to research the strengths and weaknesses of the program she's interested in.</p>
<p>For some reason, I guess USC does polarize folks & they love or hate USC but few I've spoken with are neutral. My folks & BIL & sisters are pretty negative about USC because USC always beats UMichigan in football (they're all football fans). None of the kids from our HS has ever said anything about USC being "lite" academically. Bottom line, I believe folks can find whatever they're looking for at USC--good & bad. Good luck in your choice--an open mind is very helpful in make a good choice.</p>
<p>Groovinhard- Don't worry, I totally understand your concerns. Yes, there are definitely plenty of nerds here. All personality types are represented, but you will experience different ones in different places. For example, I lived in the honors hall last year, so most students were either scholarship or honors students. Despite being in one of the so called "lame" residential halls, I had a great time. Sure, there wasn't any partying, but I got to know everyone in the hall, most everyone kept their doors open the whole time, and we all had a lot of fun. For example, about fifteen of us went to see Harry Potter when it opened at midnight. </p>
<p>I have no idea what your stats are, so I can't guess whether or not you will be invited for a scholarship interview. But if you are, make sure to take the time to ask questions about everything, and get a real feel for the campus. </p>
<p>Not everyone is going to love USC. I know when I first took a tour, I was a bit dismayed at all of the rah rah stuff. But I sort of got used to it. Yes, a vague like of football can be useful, but it certainly isn't necessary. USC is really what you make it out to be. We have a huge number of international students, a pretty diverse campus, and more students are on financial aid here than you'd expect. USC has quickly been rising in the rankings for a good reason. </p>
<p>There are also some nice things about attending USC versus a UC. The advising is much better, from what I've heard from friends. You get a lot more personal attention. I was doing a research paper last semester, and found a book that would be perfect for the topic, but hadn't been published yet in the US. I asked my teacher about it, and she said that if I bought it, then submitted the receipt to the department, they would gladly refund me for the book. I doubt that happens often at a public school.</p>
<p>I'm a Bio major and a TO (Thematic Option) minor. USC definitely encourages double majors/minors.</p>
<p>I think the best advice was offered early in this thread: Visit. However, I would avoid visiting on admitted students day, or any other day when formal "Events" for prospective students are being staged. And, don't just take the standard daytime admissions tour. Try to stay overnight in the dorms. If that's not possible, walk around campus at night on a Thursday or Friday night between 10 pm and 1 am. However, to be fair, you should do the same at other schools as well, just to have something for comparison.</p>
<p>The truth is that what matters most is not what other people say or think about a particular college, but rather how your daughter thinks and feels. There is absolutely NO college or university in the world that is going to be perfect for every person, and even people who are very happy with their choice will still find things to grouse about if given an opportunity to vent. </p>
<p>So, visit. Talk to actual USC students. (Maybe some of the USC students or the children of USC students who have posted here would be willing to set up a lunch with your daughter - send them a personal message and ask!) Let your daughter walk around campus by herself both during the day and at night. See how she feels. And, as always, no one should have only one college in mind. There are too many great schools (including MANY great journalism programs) to ignore.</p>
<p>In my opinion, the two major highlights from this entire thread (which I'm happy to see has actually provided a lot of great advice):</p>
<ol>
<li><p>"But I think that there is something about USC that people either love or hate -- and not necessarily for logical reasons."</p></li>
<li><p>"Visit. However, I would avoid visiting on admitted students day, or any other day when formal "Events" for prospective students are being staged. And, don't just take the standard daytime admissions tour. Try to stay overnight in the dorms. If that's not possible, walk around campus at night on a Thursday or Friday night between 10 pm and 1 am. However, to be fair, you should do the same at other schools as well, just to have something for comparison."</p></li>
</ol>
<p>I personally LOVED my USC tour but know that I would not have been very happy there. My sister LOVED the USC tour and immediately knew that she would fit perfectly. The school has an unbelievable amount to offer and your daughter sounds like she's motivated and dedicated enough to take advantage of it. If she is comfortable with the rest of the atmosphere, then I can't imagine many problems.</p>
<p>When it comes to talking about USC, it's near impossible to sort out the stereotypes of yesterday with the realities of today, the cold hard fact from "fight on" pride...this thread has done an impressive job, I think. </p>
<p>Good luck!</p>
<p>USC is on my 11th grade Ds short list. She also wants to major in journalism w/ a minor in advertising. She isnt a partier but I think she would LOVE the strong school spirit and the big football atmosphere. She has been told they have a good dance team and would like to audition for it. My biggest concern is what do Af Am students do socially at a school like USC that has such a strong Greek presence?</p>
<p>Just went to USC.edu & searched "African American" & came up with these sites:</p>
<p>One that your D might be particularly interested in is</p>
<p>Flygirls, USC
Fly Girls is an organization at the University of Southern California dedicated to the expression of African-American culture through dance.</p>
<p>You might also wish to post your question on the this University of Southern California thread to get more responses from USC students:</p>
<p>Here's another link she might want to check (also on the site I listed above):</p>
<p>Alpha Kappa Alpha
Alpha Kappa Alpha is the oldest Greek-letter organization established in America by Black college women.</p>
<p>These groups & issues are things she can inquire about directly at the school as well & in interviews/tours, etc.</p>
<p>These is an office called the CBCSA-Center for Black Cultural and Student Affairs. It has tons of great resources, and acts as a support center for students. Really, a great place to find information.</p>
<p>USC get's a deserved party rept because of it top football team and heavy Greek culture. Anytime you get that combo, you are going to have some high profile partying. So that is available on a regular basis at this school. It is also smaller than those big flagship midwest universities that tend to have like football success, and it is private--more money (am assuming) floating around. That size makes it more difficult to hide from the party scene, avoid those activities. WHen you are at Ohio State or Penn State, for instance, though there is a big, big party scene at each of those schools, there are so danged many kids there, that there is plenty of room to hide or find many kids not even the slight bit interested in the football or frat hoopla. THe numbers dictate that. Also for some of the big state schools, you are in the middle of no where. Being in LA is a whole different story. All of this adds to the pressure of the party scene at USC. Don't get me wrong, I am sure there are plenty of kids there who party minimally, but it is harder to ignore that element in a school like USC. If this is something you or your D do not want to be a big part of the school culture for any reason, it is something to carefully consider. It is not an invisible mouse in the room, more like a dancing elephant. For my own upcoming college search kid, I know that USC type schools are not a good idea, just from knowing him, though things may change as they often do with growing young people. For my last one going through this process it would have been a likely disaster, because there is not a party that one could resist. The oldest one would have issues with the fraternity, clique exclusions, a problem that occurred a non party rep college that has frats. My friend with three daughters, all serious good students, had no such issue. Her girls are doing fine at Ohio State, love it, the other in a southern sorority at such a school. This element was a non issue for her and her girls, and USC would have probaby been fine for them. As I said earlier, I know a young man at USC who is a top student, and he is loving it there. But I know there are kids that would find the atmosphere difficult and the temptations possibly disasterous,</p>
<p>My S goes to a school ranked even HIGHER than USC on the "Party School" scale, but I agree with those who say students who have their heads on straight tend to surround themselves with similar people. </p>
<p>I've got one more suggestion for broadcast journalism: E. W. Scripps School of Journalism (<a href="http://scrippsjschool.org/academic_options.php)%5B/url%5D">http://scrippsjschool.org/academic_options.php)</a>), which is consistently ranked in the top 10 of journalism schools nationally.. If your D has high stats, she would automatically qualify for very good merit scholarships. Also, if she is very dedicated and self-starting, please look into their Honors Tutorial College. It's difficult to get into (usually only one or two people per major), but is fantastic in terms of perks: <a href="http://www.ouhtc.org%5B/url%5D">http://www.ouhtc.org</a> . Click on the kids and hear what they have to say.</p>
<p>
[quote]
There are also some nice things about attending USC versus a UC. The advising is much better, from what I've heard from friends. You get a lot more personal attention. I was doing a research paper last semester, and found a book that would be perfect for the topic, but hadn't been published yet in the US. I asked my teacher about it, and she said that if I bought it, then submitted the receipt to the department, they would gladly refund me for the book. I doubt that happens often at a public school.
[/quote]
Let's hope that things like this happen when one pays over $20K more per year for USC versus a UC.</p>
<p>TutuTaxi--do I assume your daughter dances ballet?--the general impression I get is that at SC socially, green matters more than white/black/brown/yellow. (See also, Greek culture, correlative with green.)</p>
<p>That said, SC deserves props for having one of the highest percentages of Pell Grant recipients (low income) of any private institution. They are also assiduous in courting foreign students, though the motives may not be completely altruistic in that those tend to be customers paying full freight.</p>
<p>With "green" I assume that you mean money? </p>
<p>I think that money seems to be one of the primary factors for when some who do not like USC. </p>
<p>Let me address my personal situation (briefly). For what it's worth, I am not rich. I am, in part, borrowing from my house equity and retirement to make the USC education a possibility for my son. (He did get a helpful merit scholarship that, in large part, is also helping to make it possible). My wife and I decided (years ago) that a number one priority for us was to do all we could to help our children have a good life. We have chosen to sacrafice, for their benefit. (I am not bragging about it. I only say it, lest people think I am some rich tycoon who can easily afford USC). I have two cars that are both 10 years old. I have never been on a cruise. I have never been to Europe, or even to the East Coast (which i would like to do). My wife (who currently has a part time job) did not work for the first 17 years of my son's life. She wanted to be a 'stay-at-home' mom, to be there for our children, to nuture them, to help them. I supported her, in that effort. It has been very difficult financially, but it has been worth it. Our son is doing well, in so many ways, and we attribute some of it, to our ability to provide a safe nutruing environment for him. </p>
<p>Why did i mention by situation? I guess because i resent some of the comments that we have received over the years about our son's education, and about money being spent on education, from people who, in some cases, did not choose to make the same sacrifices.</p>
<p>We had a number of issues with the local public high school, so we enrolled our son in a private high school. It was an added hardship, financially. If you note my userid (lovetocamp), i chose it because camping is what we did for vacations as a family, instead of more exciting things (no cruises, no trips to europe, no ski boats, etc.). It was one of the best decisions that we ever made, because our son flourished in high school. It was a smaller school, so the class sizes were small, yet the teachers were excellent. He was already very smart (got it from my dad. it skipped a generation), but we think that the private high school was the right thing for him, to help him achieve his best, and he did. </p>
<p>Along the way, we received comments over the 4 years, while he was in the private high school, from relatives and friends, who said things like "must be nice to afford a private high school". We bit our lip, and were patient with such comments, and did not respond with what we could have said. (we were tempted to say: "if you didn't buy a new car every few years, if you didn't go to Hawaii every 3 or 4 years, if you didn't take 2 or 3 ski trips each year, if you didn't buy expensive jewelry each year, etc. etc. then you could have afforded it as well.). </p>
<p>We did not say anything negative to them - because it was THEIR choice to do what they did. They made the decision to take expensive vacations, buy new cars, etc. We never told them to change their lifestyle. But, i resent that they made snide remarks about our son being in a Pvt High School. We sacraficed a lot to make it happen (it was not easy). We have the same right to make our own decisions about our finances as they do. It was not, and is not fair for them not to honor our choices. </p>
<p>The point being, i am a bit sensitive about "money" being tossed around. </p>
<p>Lastly, with money. I think you need to be sure that you are viewing all aspects of money and schools. (you know the saying about the missing the forest for the trees. And, the one about putting the cart before the horse). </p>
<p>I will ask the question. Do Private schools charge large sums of money - in order for the teachers and administrators to be rich? Or, do they charge a lot, so that they will have the resources to provide a complete environment for the students? I believe that it is the latter. </p>
<p>The private schools (that we are familar with) were started, and remain in business, in order to provide a quality education for the students. (I am NOT saying, or implying, that public schools do not, or can not, also provide an excellent education. In OUR situation, the public high school was/is in bad shape). I believe that for us, the private school, was the right choice. Let me add, the salaries of the teachers at my son's high school are in the same range as the teachers at the public high school. Newer teachers making less, older teachers making more, just like the public schools. </p>
<p>So, to imply that USC is only interested in GREEN, to me, is a straw-man argument. I am not denying that USC requires a continuous inflow of money to continue its existence. Yet, USC is not in business for the purpose of seeing green, receiving green, spending green. That is not fair. And, yes, i do realize that they probably apportion a good amount towards athletics. Yet, look at the return on investment. The alumni giving rate at USC is one of the highest.</p>
<p>I could, but will not, address the other side of the coin, that public schools receive large sums of money from California tax payers. Not all California taxpayers agree with having some of their money go to fund the UC system, but that is the way that public education is funded. I don't resent being taxed for schools that my children don't attend (because i think it IS important for all children of California to receive an educaiton.). Therefore, I ask that people not resent USC (or my son's private high school) - just because those institutions choose to start and maintain a private institution. </p>
<p>I could argue that I pay a lot more, than the already high sticker price of USC, since i pay USC tuition, AND my taxes help fund public high schools, and public colleges. Again, i am not complaining. I am just stating the facts.</p>
<p>I will restate, for a third or fourth time, I truly believe that any student will receive an excellent educaiton at any top school. (in California, for example, UCLA, UC Berkeley, USC, Stanford, etc. all provide their students with excellent educations).</p>
<p>When previous posters have referred to USC as being very "focused on the green" or what have you, I do not believe they meant what you understood, lovetocamp. Your point is excellent and is applicable to private education in general, but I don't think it's really what has been insinuated. At certain schools, much more (or less) than others, money is (or CAN be) a surprisingly important part of the social scene aaand occasionally of the admissions process. Yes, this can and does occur all over the place, but some schools have a bit stronger of a reputation for it than others.</p>
<p>This is a USC stereotype with which I'm familiar, but not extensively. It's not to say that everyone at USC is rich, that you have to be rich to attend and enjoy, or that USC doesn't actively try to combat the situation. With 15,000-some-odd students, it would be pointless even to try and make such generalizations (OR the reverse). I could provide ample anecdotal evidence to back it up one way or the other, but I'll leave that to anyone else. Main point: lovetocamp -- extremely valid points (and I admire the sacrifices made for your son and understand family's ignorant comments), but possibly misdirected (as I have understood).</p>
<p>I appreciate your pespective. I can see it from both angles. From your angle, if i understand it correctly (to let money and wealth be the determing factor in friendships and social circles), yes there surely is some of that at USC. And, yes that occurred at my son's private high school, as well. </p>
<p>For those people, who were caught up in their money (and their family's wealth status), they were not the people that my son enjoyed being with anyway. He is very down to earth. He had (at his high school) many friends. Some were very wealthy (multiple houses, trips to Europe, etc), some were in our income level, and some came from families who made much less than we do. For those friends of his, who came from wealthy families, they seemed to not let money be a factor when they chose friendships. </p>
<p>Money is a very shallow basis for friendships anyway. What happens if your family incurs a financial crisis? Do your friends dump you (because you no longer drive the mercedez/porsche, or you no longer belong to the country club)? Or if a spouse incurs a financial loss, does the wife leave the husband? Sounds like Hollywood to me. No thanks.</p>
<p>My son has one friend at USC, who is the son of a very famous actress (who we saw at Orientation). This son has the last name of the father, who is not well known, and the son maintains a low profile. He is a decent kid, who likes to hang out with other decent kids. Therefore, they are friends.</p>
<p>I have no problem with having money (and i wish that i made a bit more money than i do). But, to have money be the basis for friendships is, in my opinion, very shallow. I have personally seen both. My family had a fair amount of wealth, when i was young (my father did quite well). My folks divorced, and I lived with my mother after the divorce. For those years with my mother, we were middle income (with little or no help from good ole dad). I had good close friends in both categories. Money was never an issue or a basis for friendships. </p>
<p>If you are upset at people putting you off, because you are not as wealthy, then you really would not want them as friends anyway.</p>
<p>So, i guess for those (at USC) who focus on money (as their basis for social status, and friendships) then they probably find each other and enjoy each other (and in my estimation, they deserve each other). :-)</p>
<p>
[quote]
I guess because i resent some of the comments that we have received over the years about our son's education, and about money being spent on education, from people who, in some cases, did not choose to make the same sacrifices.
[/quote]
lovetocamp:</p>
<p>I agree with your perspective on this. My wife and I made a similar choice of my wife staying at home while the kids were in school and a similar choice for private schools (but switched to public for middle and high schools). We also were willing to sacrifice material items in order to achieve this and I'm quite happy with all of those decisions. We may have been luckier than you in one area though - I never had anyone make any of the 'money' comments to me as you had to endure.</p>
<p>
[quote]
in California, for example, UCLA, UC Berkeley, USC, Stanford, etc. all provide their students with excellent educations
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I agree with those, but would like to suggest that the entire California system of higher education is excellent -- providing a post-secondary opportunity for almost any high school grad (and some non-grads, too). CC's elite focus sometimes causes us to gloss over the excellent outcomes that the CSUs and community colleges make possible. You could make the case (and I would) that the average undergraduate classroom experience at CSU Long Beach or UC Riverside is not materially different than that at Berkeley or Los Angeles.</p>