Simple math. What % of kids do you think are ambitious? Compare that to what percent of kids apply to HYPSM… (stats are available for the latter). Or you can review various studies, such as http://www.nber.org/papers/w18586 . Or you can look in almost any industry with a high concentration of ambitious persons and compare what percent of that group applied to HYPSM…
Strength of major was not the only factor. It was one of more than a dozen factors, probably closer to 20 (don’t remember precisely) used in the 2nd level of screening. I also wasn’t using US news ranking to evaluate strength of major, although there is a correlation with your list. 6 of the 10 colleges on your list did well enough that I seriously considered applying to them. I did apply to 3 of them. 2 on your list did as poorly as Harvard/Yale…
Alan Mecham one of the astute investor, even did not attend a college; forget prestige.
“Simple math. What % of kids do you think are ambitious? Compare that to what percent of kids apply to HYPSM… (stats are available for the latter).”
Are you just focusing on those five colleges because they’re the toughest to get in or are you including other colleges similar to HYPSM like Cal Tech, Chicago, Duke, NW, JHU, and the other ivies?
The specific colleges included in “HYPSM…” aren’t important. The conclusion is similar, so long as you consider that kids can apply to more than 1 college.
“When money is no object, ambitious kids b-line to prestige to mix with the best of the best.”
I like a bold sweeping generalization as much as anybody, but COME ON.
SOME make a b-line for prestige ( especially in certain coastal areas & certain pockets of the heartland), but a heck of a lot do not. Some want to stay close to home; some want to go where there is a great tradition in certain sports; some want go go where there are fun parties, good weather, or attractive people; a lot want to go somewhere where they are considerably brighter than the majority of other students so they can easily stand out, get a gaudy GPA, & receive glowing recommendations.
Amazingly, to some ambitious people, prestige is something you get from carrying a certain brand of purse or driving a certain model of automobile, NOT from having attended a certain type of college.
An interesting variant on this question is how much does the “prestige” of being offered additional honors by a college (e.g. Regents scholarship etc) affect your kid’s choice, beyond the direct benefit (e.g. money, housing, registration priority, etc) that it provides.
We are definitely feeling flattered by some of these honors, even at colleges that my kids had previously put lower on their lists. So in that sense it’s working, but at the moment I suspect it probably won’t change the ultimate decision. I think the acid test is whether something that provides no money (e.g. UVA Echols) persuades you to pay more for that school compared to other alternatives.
Probably a big deal to high school seniors comparing college results, but not to employers or graduate/professional schools when the students are graduating from college. For example, a high school senior may prefer to emphasize being in the honors program or earning a big scholarship at a school like Arizona State or Alabama, since these schools are otherwise at the lower end of the selectivity and prestige scale. But would any school-prestige-conscious employer care about whether a student at the school is in an honors program or earned a large scholarship?
@ucbalumnus I disagree with that. A Stamps Scholar, for example, at a lower ranked school is going to have a better chance of landing a prestigious internship/full time position at a place like McKinsey than a non-honors student with the same GPA at that school. The big scholarships and honors do make a difference.
“Stamps Scholar” what is that? I have never heard of. I bet most employers would have the same reaction.
My parents were much more concerned than I was. The less you know about the college process, the more it seems like you have to be in an ivy or another big name school.
@jzducol Look it up. You may not know, but employers know. Just like most are familiar with the other top scholarships like the Robertson, etc. Look at where those students end up. Those students are breaking into fields in large numbers like IB and consulting that many think are limited to those at Ivies and other targets.
If you do your research, you’ll see that honors and a major scholarship can make a significant difference.
For those who feel that an ivy degree implies a level of vetting that would appeal to employers, it is worth considering that a prestigious scholarship program also involves careful vetting. I have heard of Stamps Scholars.
I even know a Stamps scholar 
Though it’s for undergrad, I’d put it in the general bucket of Fulbright, Schwarzman, Rhodes, etc.
But Stamps is very rare. How do school elitist employers look at more common ones, like Presidential at Alabama or Barrett at Arizona State?
At Berkeley, being a Regents means, in addition to some funding, dibs on classes at a school where classes can be heard to get, so it can be a pretty big factor.
IDK. But I doubt in the league of Stamps, Coca Cola, Gates.
If we are talking about elite investment banking on wall street, coming from a less prestigious school where there is no recruiting is likely to be disadvantage, regardless of scholarships. One researcher who anonymously surveyed over 100 persons responsible for hiring decisions, including having them make decisions on mock resumes, summarized it by saying:
One of the IB recruitment managers she interviewed wrote the following about applicants from non-target colleges:
As I’ve mentioned previously in the thread, this type of practice is the exception, not the rule. The overwhelming majority of employers have a very different hiring process
Just last week I was witness to a case where the degree mattered long after initial employment. Now this is the finance industry, so YMMV in other fields.
I was contacted by a recruiter for a potential job which required relocation. I am happy where I am, so I referred a very talented former colleague who lived in the area where the job was located, and who was actually a much better fit. She looked him up while I was talking to her and to my surprise, the recruiter said the hiring company wouldn’t consider him to have the right “pedigree” (exact word she used) for the position. This was for someone in his 40s. What a wasted opportunity.
^in response to hebegebe’s comment:
It always matters to some extent. I hire public school teachers. I always have worked at in-demand school districts with over 1000 applicants per elementary teacher position. The vast majority of them come from local Long Island colleges. An impressive undergraduate college is likely to get you a coveted interview spot. (Being a strong student performing at the very top of a local college also draws attention to you.) We have to weed these 1000+ resumes somehow!
However, then it stops mattering. The series of interviews, writing sample, math problem-solving sample, and, if you make it that far, the demonstration lesson above all else, will determine if you get the job. In a recent cycle with Colgate, Dartmouth, and Penn grads, all of them were granted interviews in part because of their colleges, but only the Penn grad ended up being hired for a teaching job because of the strength of her interviews and demo lesson, and simultaneously we hired some teachers who went to colleges like Molloy or Post. Your resume helps get you in the room, but you take it from there.
Not everyone who is brilliant is a brilliant teacher. One can understand a concept, yet have no idea how to help students to understand it or how to inspire them to want to do so. Conversely, sometimes someone may not have been the strongest student in their high school (and thus have not attended a top college), yet may have an amazing ability to connect with students and to convey concepts and strategies in a way that students will master them.
You do have to be smart and well-educated enough, however, to understand the underlying concepts deeply enough to teach them well. You would be surprised how many candidates are eliminated because they cannot solve a multi-step math problem that our fifth graders need to solve!
There are multiple forms of intelligence that affect job performance. Some of them are the same that can be measured by academic success. Others are different.